A3000: Internal floppy does not sense when ejected after boot

[RDP]

I have a A3000 with an internal DF0 I have both a single ended, and double ended (DF0-DF1 capable with the twist) cable available to use. I also have as DF2 an external adapter to a FlashFloppy.

In all situations whatever is connected to the internal floppy connector the disk will only read and be recognised on a boot/reboot. If I eject the floppy any other time the internal drive (real of Flashfloppy, its doesn't matter) does not seek/click/realize the media has been ejected. What frustrating is that I can swap the internal for external drive, and when connected externally the seek/click happens, for both drives. So it's not a drive issue. I'm very stumped and stuck (for days....) on this.

thanks,
RDP

[hooverphonique]

does it work with a different disk if you issue "diskchange df0:" after changing the disk?

[RDP]

Thanks for responding, and making this issue even more interesting.....

Scenario:

Boot with floppy inserted in both df0 and df2.

Both drives show on WB after boot (good!).

I can use both drives (good!).

eject df0, no reaction from system

issue Diskchange df0:, and BOTH DF0 and DF2 start seeking at the same time! Then the new disk that was inserted in DF0 is recognized, but DF2 becomes "DF2:Unreadable".

Wow, I didn't expect this to happen. But I'm not sure what it means.

Confirming setup as:

Current DF0: is Chinon FZ-357A, with jumper on DS0.

Current DF2: is FlashFloppy, with jumper on S0.

I should also add that I have on the CIA a switch to relocate DF0 to the external connector, that disables the real DF0 when needed for naughty ADF that like to boot only from DF0.


thanks so much, I know this provides a hint.


RDP

[hooverphonique]

It seems like multiple drives get selected simultaneously, and possibly also a problem with diskchange from df0.

How did these problems appear? Was it working before you connected extra drives/bootselector?

Strip back the system until only df0 is present on the internal connector (using the correct cable/connector) and work from there..

[pipper]

This is my A3000 setup, working with two internal floppy drives and one external drive.

DF0, configured as DS0, is connected to the far end of the internal cable (the connector with a twist).
DF1: is configured as DS1 and is connected to the straight part of the cable. This is the FZ-357A.

J351 needs to be (counterintuitively) set to “No DF1:” (2-3). Otherwise you won’t be able to work with HD floppies.

[RDP]

Well, not great news.

Verified JP351, and I'm on 2-3 already. 1-2 gave a ghost DF1: on my WB. and I think DF0 was DF0:Unreadbale. Seems I'm on the right jumper settings.

I've removed the boot-selector from the CIA.
I've unplugged the external drive.
I only have the internal drive connected to the original cable at the end (with the twist), and both the Chinon and the Flashfloppy when connected exhibit the same behaviour (no seek on eject), so I'm assuming its not the drive unit that is causing the problem.

As usual disk change df0: permits a new disk to be read/used.

Is it worth trying to swap CIA?

NOTE: Both drives "seek" properly when connected externally.


thanks,
RDP

[Kin Hell]

FlashFloppy? - As in Gotek?

Make sure DF0: is on the Middle header of the floppy cable. Not the last twisted wire Header.

Iirc on the A3KD, set J351 to 2-3 "disables the _RDY signal for DF1:" to the internal floppy connector, so an external drive can be used. <---- yes?

DF0: should be set DS0 on Drive.
DF1: should be set as DS1 on the drive. <---- you don't have this.
DF2: should be set as DS2 on the drive.

From an Engineers point of view, one would hope this also applies to FlashFloppy/Gotek thingy's....

[RDP]

Well, actually, I have up to three options.

1. Chinon
2. Real FlashFloppy PCB running FlashFloppy 2.13
3. (not really used, but available) Gotek Systems PCB running FlashFloppy 1.3


thanks!
RDP

[RDP]

Kin,

Yes, I am able to use both internal floppy connectors as DF0 and DF1 when JP351 is set to 1-2. 2-3 disables DF1 (internal).

IIRC the external drive always starts at DF2 on a 2 internal drive capable system.

As to your DF2: should be set to DS2, IIRC (and as I am using now) the external drive chain is distinct from the internal, and therefore DS0 select on the first externally connected drive results in DF2:. Setting the external drive to DS2 would result in DF4:? -Note: Things working well for me when connected externally, so just chatting with you here..... :-)


thanks,
RDP

[hooverphonique]

If disk change detection works for any drive, switching cia to remedy this isn't going to help as the signal from all drives goes to the same cia pin.

Normally, amiga drives are always DS0 (PC drives DS1), and the cable twist takes care of the rest. Now, internal DF1 may be different (I don't remember), and in external drives it's entirely up to the wiring in the external closure, what the drive is set to, but that has nothing to do with if it shows up as DF1/2/3.

Also, a header on the motherboard should be set as "no df1" if the internal DF1 is a HD drive, otherwise there will be a conflict in drive ID bitstream generation (generated by both the mobo and the drive).

[Kin Hell]

RDP,

I've never tried DF0 as an External Device.

Hardware is my thing, so you kinda know jumpers & what's what to make things work. My earlier post is C= Law which I like to think I'm still good at. - Only two things ever screwed me up & they were both Elbox FastATA cards.

Do you have a manual for your FlashFloppy thingy? - I've never had the pleasure of an Emulated Floppy Drive.

I really Hate Emulation!

Why not just put the Gotek in the A3KD on Floppy Cable as DF0: (Header b4 the twist) and set as Chinon.
Set J351 to 2-3
Put real Floppy as an External drive with it's jumpers set to DS2.

Should work fine.

[Jope]

When discussing a big box Amiga, the internal floppy connector has DS0 and DS1 available. You need to jumper the mechanism to DS0 or DS1, depending on which drive you wish to use. DS0 should be after the twist, pins 4-6 twisted on a big box Amiga.

If your mechanism cannot provide an ID stream at the ready pin, then you must close the DF1 present jumper on the motherboard so that the motherboard provides the ID stream.

[Jope]

When discussing external drives, it is down to the external drive enclosure.

Regular Amiga external drive enclosures take the first available drive select from the D23 connector at the motherboard and route this to one mechanism that is connected to the enclosure. It does not matter to the enclosure what number select the Amiga provides, wedge machines will provide DS1 and big box Amigas will usually provide DS2 as the first select at the D23.

Now it is down to your external drive solution, whether it routes the first select it gets from the Amiga to DS0 or DS1 at the mechanism. A multimeter will help here, see where pin 21 from the D23 connector is routed. Pin 10 at the drive is DS0 and pin 12 at the drive is DS1. Jumper the drive accordingly.

If it is a regular daisy chainable drive, it will then route the remaining selects down one notch behind it so that the next external drive will again happily take the lowest available select, route it to its mechanism and route the remaining selects down one notch. Naturally if you run out of selects, there will be no selects left, but the drive enclosure will not know this.

[Jope]

RDP, have you tried your system without the boot selector?

Do I understand correctly that you wish to run a physical floppy drive as your internal and a Gotek as your external in an A3000?

[pipper]

Please also consider a broken floppy cable as the root cause of your woes.

[hooverphonique]

Originally Posted by Jope

When discussing a big box Amiga, the internal floppy connector has DS0 and DS1 available. You need to jumper the mechanism to DS0 or DS1, depending on which drive you wish to use. DS0 should be after the twist, pins 4-6 twisted on a big box Amiga.

I just looked at the pinout - so all the twist actually does, is turn the led on according to if the drive is before or after the twist, but both drives always rotate simultaneously.. Funky..

And you are of course correct that df0/df1 are distinguished by the drives being set for DS0/DS1, but it doesn't really matter where you put it on the cable, it is just the activity light that may be wrong..

[Jope]

True. The activity lights will both light up for one drive and stay dark for the other if you have them in the wrong order on the cable.

Pipper's note about an internally frayed flat cable is worth investigating too.

[RDP]

There has been a lot of activity since I was here last, but hope to address all the good points and input.

Kin: Reason to use real floppy in A3000. The FlashFloppy doest fit in a way that would permit usage in the A3000 floppy drive bay with the case lid on. The real floppy has a purpose built A3000 eject button (wide style and same color) and is the best candidate for the internal bay. I also don't want new-style button and LCD showing through the A3000 front of case. Not my style. Manual for FlashFloppy: Available on-line yes, but I don't have problems with it. All drives work fine when connected externally.

Jope: Good to see you, I'm CottonUndies on the MNT IRC. In regards to the current system I'm working with the recommendation from hooverphonique in post #4. "Strip back the system until only df0 is present on the internal connector (using the correct cable/connector) and work from there". Therefore for my current troubleshooting I am only using one drive on the internal cable. If I can't get one drive to work as it should, I won't look to solve multi-drive issues. Actually, I don't have multi-drive issues, its only the seek issue on the internal chain, and that happens with all three of my drives when connected as DF0 (no other drives present), and they all work when connected externally. Boot Selector: Yes, I've removed now. I can't see any way to go back closer to a stock setup!

Pipper: I have another cable (single headed), same results. I wish the problem was the cable as that would have been an easy fix. I'm wondering about the motherboard header, but all pins look strong.


I had this all working before, it's so strange.
I think I did at least....

thanks,
RDP

[Kin Hell]

RDP: Not at familiar with the Fit of Gotek but fully appreciate Style & Class! - Priceless!

Jope:

[RDP]

While probably it does not mean anything during my testing I discovered that:

disconnect internal drive
connect external drive (as DF2)

boot system

before you hear the regular seek on DF2 to see i there is a disk in the drive, you hear the drive motor make 6 small "motor spin" sounds. Sorry, I don't have a better way to explain it....


thanks,
RDP