PC games that made the Amiga look like Shit

[Marce]

the concept of doom if is playlable or not is according to the era or the main user

The SNES version runs at around 2 fps, and some people played such crap
some Amiga users consider Doom playlable at 7 -8 fps in a 030

but for me Doom is not playlable unless I play GZDOOM textured remake at 240fps

[sokolovic]

Originally Posted by TCD

Eh, not so sure about that. id never released an Amiga game, so I'd say that it was mostly unfamilarity with the system. If somebody would have approached them with a partially done reverse engineered engine they might have supported it like they did with the SNES version. We'll never know.

I was just saying that making a version like the SNES one would just have confirmed that the Amiga was inferior to the PC.

I'm sure nobody by 1994 thought that a stock A1200 wasn't inferior to a 486DX2/66 PC. But users would have surely bought an official Doom released on the Amiga. This game was a system seller (and even an expansion system seller ).

What strikes me is that Carmack didn't seems to be very hard to reach considering his answer to the e-mail shown above. I would be curious to know if Id Software was ever approched by an Amiga game publisher to make an Amiga conversion under license. As mentionned before, they did says that "Amiga" was talking about a Wolfenstein 3D port under license but that's all.

Maybe someone could ask him this question on twitter, he seems pretty active on it and recently posted an Amiga related tweet.

[Marce]

btw,

Carmack lived in the USA he never touch any Amiga
he knew them just by photo

he only knew how to program the old mac II and PCs

the Amiga do not existed in the USA in 1993 or 1994
there were only a few crazy rebels who still used it

also ID software wasn't going to risk money publishing doom for a dead computer unable to run it at descent speed

[sokolovic]

Originally Posted by Marce

btw,

Carmack lived in the USA he never touch any Amiga
he knew them just by photo

he only knew how to program the old mac II and PCs

the Amiga do not existed in the USA in 1993 or 1994
there were only a few crazy rebels who still used it

also ID software wasn't going to risk money publishing doom for a dead computer unable to run it at descent speed

Doom was first developped on NexTStation (50 000 units sold worldwide) which have a 68040 btw. I'm pretty sure that in 1994 there was more than 50 000 Agas Amiga worldwide (and it wasn't a dead computer by that time nor that it was uncapable of running Doom at a decent speed as it was proved later). And it's not about Id Software risking money but licensing the game like they did for the SNES, Jaguar, Sega 32X versions (this last one being another system that wasn't very common worldwide at that time).

Why does the argument of the market size seems just to be applied to the Amiga ? Why does the Amiga seems the only computer that isn't allowed to be expanded ?

[TCD]

Originally Posted by Marce

Carmack lived in the USA he never touch any Amiga
he knew them just by photo

Yeah, because they were too expensive: https://twitter.com/id_aa_carmack/st...610496?lang=en

Originally Posted by sokolovic

Doom was first developped on NexTStation (50 000 units sold worldwide) which have a 68040 btw.

Heh, you never stop learning. I always thought only the level editor was on Next

[grond]

Originally Posted by sokolovic

Doom was first developped on NexTStation (50 000 units sold worldwide) which have a 68040 btw.

That experience may have well been the reason why Carmack thought an 040 could just about do it without having to do c2p conversion.

[Daedalus]

Originally Posted by sokolovic

I'm sure nobody by 1994 thought that a stock A1200 wasn't inferior to a 486DX2/66 PC. But users would have surely bought an official Doom released on the Amiga. This game was a system seller (and even an expansion system seller ).

Unfortunately, Amiga users were less inclined to upgrade their machines for games than PC users - it was a common complaint that newer games needed hard drives and more RAM, paradoxically it was also common to hear complaints that games weren't as good as their PC counterparts as they had been cut down for Amiga conversion.

I would be curious to know if Id Software was ever approched by an Amiga game publisher to make an Amiga conversion under license.

There was an official release of Quake for the Amiga - ClickBOOM released it under licence from Id Software. At that point, the users who wanted contemporary PC games to work on their unexpanded A500s and A1200s had mostly moved to PC or console, leaving many of the remaining users with expanded machines and thirsty for games to run on them.

[grond]

Originally Posted by Daedalus

Unfortunately, Amiga users were less inclined to upgrade their machines for games than PC users - it was a common complaint that newer games needed hard drives and more RAM, paradoxically it was also common to hear complaints that games weren't as good as their PC counterparts as they had been cut down for Amiga conversion.

I bought my A1200 used. The guy who sold it wanted to replace it with a PC due to the better games. And yes, it was a vanilla A1200, no upgrade whatsoever, not even a hdd. I was an Amiga-fanatic because I loved programming and didn't care too much about the games. Thus, I was willing to invest three times as much as the A1200 cost used for a turbocard, RAM and harddisk. If it had been about the games, I could have bought quite a good PC for that money. Hence, in a certain way it made sense to not upgrade and still complain about the lack of games (and move platform). Capable PCs were around by the millions because of other reasons than games (with gaming being an afterthought).

At that point, the users who wanted contemporary PC games to work on their unexpanded A500s and A1200s

Did those people really exist?

[Daedalus]

Originally Posted by grond

I bought my A1200 used. The guy who sold it wanted to replace it with a PC due to the better games. And yes, it was a vanilla A1200, no upgrade whatsoever, not even a hdd. I was an Amiga-fanatic because I loved programming and didn't care too much about the games. Thus, I was willing to invest three times as much as the A1200 cost used for a turbocard, RAM and harddisk. If it had been about the games, I could have bought quite a good PC for that money. Hence, in a certain way it made sense to not upgrade and still complain about the lack of games (and move platform). Capable PCs were around by the millions because of other reasons than games (with gaming being an afterthought).

Yep, by the mid-'90s the situation was reversed indeed, with PCs overtaking the Amiga in the race to the bottom and the home computer market. People like you and I, who had Amigas for more serious stuff were the minority. There still were lots of people who had A500s purely because games were cheap (around the cost of blank disks) and plentiful, but people who just had it for games were also moving on to the Megadrive, SNES, PC and even Playstation.

Did those people really exist?

Yup, and not only users but Amiga magazines also cited higher requirements as a negative when reviewing games. It's a similar mentality to complaining about Monkey Island 2 needing 11 disks.

[Havie]

Originally Posted by sokolovic

Doom was first developped on NexTStation (50 000 units sold worldwide) which have a 68040 btw. I'm pretty sure that in 1994 there was more than 50 000 Agas Amiga worldwide (and it wasn't a dead computer by that time nor that it was uncapable of running Doom at a decent speed as it was proved later). And it's not about Id Software risking money but licensing the game like they did for the SNES, Jaguar, Sega 32X versions (this last one being another system that wasn't very common worldwide at that time).

Why does the argument of the market size seems just to be applied to the Amiga ? Why does the Amiga seems the only computer that isn't allowed to be expanded ?

I had many a happy hour playing Doom on my 040 equipped 1200! Frame rate seemed fine to me at the time (don't know if it would now).

[saimon69]

Originally Posted by sandruzzo

Wasn't Carmack a genius?

Looks like to me, but also i remember amigans were already a PITA back then, included me -_- and i see am not the only one tihnking that way

[TCD]

Originally Posted by Daedalus

Yup, and not only users but Amiga magazines also cited higher requirements as a negative when reviewing games. It's a similar mentality to complaining about Monkey Island 2 needing 11 disks.

Heh, true that. A lot of my friends had an Amiga, but none of them had a HD for it. Our first PC didn't have a CD-ROM drive, but half a year after getting it we would buy a 4x drive because more and more software wouldn't be available on disks. Somehow it felt 'normal' to upgrade a PC while it didn't occur to me to do the same with my Amiga.

[Gryfon]

It was after 1991 but X-Wing was the first PC game to turn my head. Personally I didn’t consider any PC better than my expanded 1200 until the first Pentium 2s started coming out. My first PC had an Athlon 1GHz CPU, in late 2001. Until then everything I did was in Amiga.

[Marce]

Originally Posted by grond

I bought my A1200 used. The guy who sold it wanted to replace it with a PC due to the better games.

that's right, to play better games > that was the main reason all the people was selling their Amigas in 1994-1995

in the USA it was even before, around 1991-1992, the Amiga was dead in such years in such country, you will note there is no NTSC games after 1991 or so
the software companies of such country were dedicated completely to the PC and other platforms /consoles

the majority of the people here in the forum yet think the Amiga was more important than what really was

asking Carmack if the Amiga could run Doom was as asking Miyamoto if the Spectrum 48k could run "super mario 64" , a dumb childish question

[saimon69]

Originally Posted by Marce

Spectrum 48k could run "super mario 64" , a dumb childish question

it MIGHT but strong compromises will need to be made

[sokolovic]

Originally Posted by Marce

asking Carmack if the Amiga could run Doom was as asking Miyamoto if the Spectrum 48k could run "super mario 64" , a dumb childish question

What a strange comparison. The Amiga can run Doom, there is absolutely no doubt about that.
As for the game market, USA isn't the centre of the World. I know that this is common feeling around US citizen yet it is also wrong. By 1994 there was still millions of Amiga users around the world, much more than 32x or Jaguar ones (and NexTStation ones).

[Marce]

Originally Posted by saimon69

it MIGHT but strong compromises will need to be made

lol nope

there is a port of doom for the spectrum btw

the problem is that people confuse what can be possible with what is commercially viable

[Marce]

Originally Posted by sokolovic

By 1994 there was still millions of Amiga users around the world,

mmmm...perhaps you wanted to say just a pair of millions and around Europe?

[saimon69]

Originally Posted by Marce

lol nope

there is a port of doom for the spectrum btw

the problem is that people confuse what can be possible with what is commercially viable

Comporomises are few triangles bouncing around - thats the most a speccy can do smoothly at 8fps - and call that super mario 64: where is your fantasy? We are not supposed to be taken literally all the time

[sokolovic]

And making a Jaguar version of Doom was commercially viable ? In november 1994 when Doom was released on it the console was pretty much terminated. 125 000 units of the machines were sold between end of 1993 and end of 1995.