TF534 with 8 MB GottaGoFastRAM

[brufnus]

Hello there!

I'm having some problems getting my TF534 cooperate with an 8 MB CPU socket RAM module.

They both work properly when separated (the 8 MB module was initially bought for a CDTV and, thus, have that firmware onboard, but it does work on my std. 500 and a stock 68K CPU despite of that).

Since the TF memory is ZIII and the other is ZII, they should work together (which is also advertised with a slightly different looking GottaGoFast version on sites like AmigaStore.eu).

Any ideas as to why I get a failure on the GottaGoFast on boot? Could it be the firmware that is causing this issue?

[Daedalus]

I thought the TF534 RAM was Zorro-II, which would explain why the two don't work together. What memory range do you get (from e.g. ShowConfig, AmigaTestKit) for the TF534 by itself?

[LIV2]

I've tested this and it seems to work, TF534 puts it's memory in the ZIII space.

Originally Posted by brufnus

(the 8 MB module was initially bought for a CDTV and, thus, have that firmware onboard, but it does work on my std. 500 and a stock 68K CPU despite of that).

This is weird, the CDTV firmware shouldn't work in an A500 unless there is some other Z2 Autoconfig device as it doesn't activate until it sees a Z2 Device being configured by Autoconfig first

To use the GGF with a TF534 in an A500 you need the regular firmware rather than the CDTV firmware.

[brufnus]

Originally Posted by Daedalus

I thought the TF534 RAM was Zorro-II, which would explain why the two don't work together. What memory range do you get (from e.g. ShowConfig, AmigaTestKit) for the TF534 by itself?

According to sysinfo and Leary himself, it should be Zorro-III; however, it does contain 64K of Zorro-II (CPU cache or something?). which of course could be the reason.

[brufnus]

Originally Posted by LIV2

I've tested this and it seems to work, TF534 puts it's memory in the ZIII space.



This is weird, the CDTV firmware shouldn't work in an A500 unless there is some other Z2 Autoconfig device as it doesn't activate until it sees a Z2 Device being configured by Autoconfig first

To use the GGF with a TF534 in an A500 you need the regular firmware rather than the CDTV firmware.

I agree, that sounds weird indeed. Another obstacle I've come across in the mean time - since the 8 MB RAM is not entirely designed like those from LIV2 I've tried figuring out exactly which one it is, but I haven't been able to find anything resembling it... so I don't even know if I can use LIV2's firmware on that one.
Hmmm life with an Amiga is not always easy, haha

[zipper]

The TF534 maps its ram into the Zorro II space (the lower area), not in its own 32-bit area. Perhaps this is why it is why less expensive than the TF536. This limits a computer with a TF534 to 8 MB total ram. (Google search)

[brufnus]

Originally Posted by zipper

The TF534 maps its ram into the Zorro II space (the lower area), not in its own 32-bit area. Perhaps this is why it is why less expensive than the TF536. This limits a computer with a TF534 to 8 MB total ram. (Google search)

That doesn't sound right. If you look at amigastore.eu, they claim the 8 MB CPU socket module can be used with the TF534, and it seems the 4 MB are in Zorro III space (also listed as 32 bit RAM, by the way). Stephen Leary even told me that.

In any case - if so, is there a way to disable to TF memory and, thus, use the 8 MB on the other one instead? E.g. through a different firmware...

[LIV2]

Disabling the TF RAM would require a different firmware.
I wouldn't recommend this at all though, the TF RAM will be waaay faster than the 8MB

Can you share a photo of the 8MB board?

[brufnus]

Certainly, it looks like this... haven't been able to find any similar expansions on the net.



I've been wondering if the three pin header in the top corner is for CFGIN/OUT...

[hooverphonique]

Originally Posted by brufnus

I've been wondering if the three pin header in the top corner is for CFGIN/OUT...

I don't know anything explicit about this device, but I seem to remember the CFGIN/OUT of it being discussed elsewhere on the forum..

[brufnus]

Originally Posted by hooverphonique

I don't know anything explicit about this device, but I seem to remember the CFGIN/OUT of it being discussed elsewhere on the forum..

Okay, I'll see if I can find that thread... thanks!

[LIV2]

Originally Posted by brufnus

Certainly, it looks like this... haven't been able to find any similar expansions on the net.

Attachment 79999

I've been wondering if the three pin header in the top corner is for CFGIN/OUT...

Hm yeah, not sure what board that is but definitely won't work with my firmware

[brufnus]

Originally Posted by LIV2

Hm yeah, not sure what board that is but definitely won't work with my firmware

No, I suspected so. I'll see what I can figure out... in any case, thanks!

[alenppc]

Let me try to correct a few misconceptions here.

The TF534 was never really meant to be a "product" in any sense. It was an experimental board that was part of the design learning process and it was mostly intended to be used by itself without any additional expansions.

Upon request, support was added for the ubiquitous Kipper 4/8MB A500 ZII expansion but that was literally the only ZII board officially supported by the 534. For those wondering, the 534 RAM is indeed mapped in the ZIII area, but this has nothing to do with ZII ram compatibility.

Remember, all the TF boards are always initially released throughout the official builders (me being one of them) and I never officially offered the 534 for sale like the other boards. It is true that a few people asked me to build some for them, and I did, but it was about 4-5 units in total.

Just because some store grabs the released open source files and sells them, doesn't mean that this board was ever meant to be released in this fashion.

Proper ZII expansion support was added to the TF536 and in fact you'll find that most expansions will indeed work with this one. Most SCSI controllers are an exception, but this is because their drivers are too stupid to know to not do DMA into ZIII ram. (This is usually because they were written before ZIII ram was even a thing.)

So the bottom line is, if something does not work in conjunction with the 534, it is because it's not meant to work with it. This was an experimental/incremental board that served as a prototype for some functions such as removal of the INT2 wire and it was never even supposed to run at more than 40 mhz (as this seriously overclocks the SRAM and usually fails anyway).

[hooverphonique]

Originally Posted by alenppc

Proper ZII expansion support was added to the TF536 and in fact you'll find that most expansions will indeed work with this one. Most SCSI controllers are an exception, but this is because their drivers are too stupid to know to not do DMA into ZIII ram. (This is usually because they were written before ZIII ram was even a thing.)

This is not limited to SCSI controllers, but to most ZII busmasters of that era, I suppose..

[brufnus]

Originally Posted by alenppc

Let me try to correct a few misconceptions here.

The TF534 was never really meant to be a "product" in any sense. It was an experimental board that was part of the design learning process and it was mostly intended to be used by itself without any additional expansions.

Upon request, support was added for the ubiquitous Kipper 4/8MB A500 ZII expansion but that was literally the only ZII board officially supported by the 534. For those wondering, the 534 RAM is indeed mapped in the ZIII area, but this has nothing to do with ZII ram compatibility.

Remember, all the TF boards are always initially released throughout the official builders (me being one of them) and I never officially offered the 534 for sale like the other boards. It is true that a few people asked me to build some for them, and I did, but it was about 4-5 units in total.

Just because some store grabs the released open source files and sells them, doesn't mean that this board was ever meant to be released in this fashion.

Proper ZII expansion support was added to the TF536 and in fact you'll find that most expansions will indeed work with this one. Most SCSI controllers are an exception, but this is because their drivers are too stupid to know to not do DMA into ZIII ram. (This is usually because they were written before ZIII ram was even a thing.)

So the bottom line is, if something does not work in conjunction with the 534, it is because it's not meant to work with it. This was an experimental/incremental board that served as a prototype for some functions such as removal of the INT2 wire and it was never even supposed to run at more than 40 mhz (as this seriously overclocks the SRAM and usually fails anyway).

Thanks for clearing up some things. I have to admit the sole reason for me purchasing this rather than the 536 was the price tag.

I don't really expect anything with neither my old CDTV nor my recently purchased A500, but I do like to experiment and sometimes make things work, sometimes not. The board as it is, with its 4 MB and clocked at 48 MHz, seems to work fine as it is. If it can't accept the additional 8 MB, then there's really nothing to do about it of course - but thanks again for your input!
Frankly, I haven't spent much time on the CDTV since the 90's, but it's both fun and refreshing entering that realm again, eventually enhanced with a std. 500 as well

[alenppc]

Originally Posted by brufnus

Thanks for clearing up some things. I have to admit the sole reason for me pruchasing this rather than the 536 was the price tag.

I don't really expect anything with neither my old CDTV nor my recently purchased A500, but I do like to experiment and sometimes make things work, sometimes not. The board as it is, with its 4 MB and clocked at 48 MHz, seems to work fine as it is. If it can't accept the additional 8 MB, then there's really nothing to do about it of course - but thanks again for your input!
Frankly, I haven't spent much time on the CDTV since the 90's, but it's both fun and refreshing entering that realm again, eventually enhanced with a std. 500 as well

The 536 has a special CDTV firmware, but it still needs the CDTV roms to be updated (you also need a special CDTV relocator or a soldered CPU to be able to close the case). With this configuration, everything will work properly, including the CD-ROM, but unfortunately the 534 was never refined to this degree.

[brufnus]

Originally Posted by alenppc

The 536 has a special CDTV firmware, but it still needs the CDTV roms to be updated (you also need a special CDTV relocator or a soldered CPU to be able to close the case). With this configuration, everything will work properly, including the CD-ROM, but unfortunately the 534 was never refined to this degree.

Yes I have learned that the 536 should work with the CDTV. However, my 534 is being used with a std. A500 rev 6 now, and after consulting the manual for the socket RAM board I realized it's possible to configure that one as being either for an A500 or a CDTV - that didn't improve anything, though.

My next step will be to try again with my newly purchased KS 3.2.2, which works properly with the TF, and see if that makes any difference.

[GadgetUK]

Originally Posted by brufnus

According to sysinfo and Leary himself, it should be Zorro-III; however, it does contain 64K of Zorro-II (CPU cache or something?). which of course could be the reason.

That 64K is IO, which I believe can overlap.


I have the GTGF Zorro or 68K working fine with either TF534 or TF536. (Clarification - all RAM tests out, and the IDE works too)

[brufnus]

Hi again,

Quite some time since I posted this, and in the mean time I got two more CDTV's; I just decided to try once again and throw that unknown 8 MB socket expansion in the one I just received from Poland a few days ago.... and now it works! :-D

(Rather lucky in fact, since I'll keep one of them more or less stock, but at least with some more RAM in any case).

I still haven't figured out from where that exotic memory card originates... c".)