The truth about Ranger?

[r.cade]

Originally Posted by Weasel Fierce

So Miner said in 1988 the chips were "completed and tested" and that Commodore had them.

The interview with Mical in the wiki links says they "were thinking about" a new chip and that it was "supposed to be done now". It is not dated but it refers to the 2000 being pretty new so 87 88 ish?

Haynie says that some sort of "ranger" existed as a project but does not believe it was ever completed.


Clearly these cannot all be true.

https://forum.amiga.org/index.php?topic=69487.0
From the thread when the prototype case was found, user chrisxyz seems to note that theres no indication of a new chipset in this case.

I think in other cases, RJ has had a "different memory" than other people involved at the time.

[Gorf]

Originally Posted by r.cade

I think in other cases, RJ has had a "different memory" than other people involved at the time.

I am sure it is exactly how he experienced it at the time!

[Weasel Fierce]

Originally Posted by Gorf

The mockup case and the boards are actually nothing else than the Los Gatos A2000:

George Robbins (C900, A500):


(fits like a glove, doesn't it?)

Andy Finkel (AmigaOS):


So "Ranger" was something else ... but what?
As far as I can see from the old message boards "Ranger" was simply a code for the next Amiga ... the expression is used from 1986 onwards.

Source for the quotes:
https://groups.google.com/g/comp.sys...m/epQVy3Eq2WoJ

Great find!

[lmimmfn]

Isn't the clue as to what it was in the name, I.e. "Ranger", at a range, focusing on expansion etc.

[Bruce Abbott]

Originally Posted by r.cade

I think in other cases, RJ has had a "different memory" than other people involved at the time.

He only said they were "thinking about" a new chip and that it was "supposed to be done now". So this confirms that the mythical 'Ranger' chipset didn't actually exist.

I'm glad it didn't, and I'm glad that Ranger prototype didn't go anywhere. We got the A2000 instead, which was a much better machine.

Looking at those big square cards, plugged in horizontally, it's no wonder they had to make a thermal mockup because cooling them would be a nightmare.

What I find peculiar is the disconnect between this design and the IBM PC. It's almost as if they had never seen one, or were deliberately trying to be different. Which makes zero sense. The obvious thing to do was to use a similar form factor so they could take advantage of 'industry standard' cards (which some amateurs were already doing).

Jerry Pournelle had a saying about the development of personal computers - 'Silicon's cheap, iron's expensive". What he meant was that chips would get cheaper, but the other stuff - the 'iron', wouldn't. Over time PC cards got smaller as the chips became more integrated. A smaller card is cheaper to make and needs less room in the case, which can then also be made slimmer and cheaper. But those big square cards in the Ranger couldn't be made any smaller. Very short-sighted engineering.

Imagine you were the CEO of Commodore and you visited the R&D lab to see what your engineers had been working on for the past 2 years - and they showed you that. Someone must have had some sense though, because the machines we did get were well designed.

[chb]

Originally Posted by Bruce Abbott

He only said they were "thinking about" a new chip and that it was "supposed to be done now". So this confirms that the mythical 'Ranger' chipset didn't actually exist.

I might want to differ. First, RJ Mical is not always a reliable source of information about Amiga history. Let's just mention he majored in English literature, not history, and probably likes a good story more than dry chronicles. AFAIK he quit Amiga/Commodore also quite early (in 1986).

ECS Agnus chips exists dating back to the first weeks of 1988 (according to this facebook post), there exists also a document from 1988 describing the ECS Denise (and mentioning both the 8373 and an earlier prototype 8369 in the DENISEID specification). Also the A2024 software from 1988 (containing beta Kickstart 1.4 parts) checks for both Agnus revision and the 8373 and 8369 Denise ID. I guess it is therefore save to say that ECS was finished in 1987, with aligns well with the supposed Ranger timeline.

Originally Posted by Bruce Abbott

I'm glad that Ranger prototype didn't go anywhere.

That's probably the correct judgement...

[Weasel Fierce]

Originally Posted by lmimmfn

Isn't the clue as to what it was in the name, I.e. "Ranger", at a range, focusing on expansion etc.

Since they were all nerds it could also be a reference to Aragorn or something

[Gorf]

Originally Posted by Weasel Fierce

Since they were all nerds it could also be a reference to Aragorn or something

[NERD]
That would be Strider not Ranger ....
[/NERD]

[GEEK]
(Texas) Ranger? Maybe it was the first Chuck Norris Joke ever ...
[/GEEK]

[Weasel Fierce]

Originally Posted by Gorf

[NERD]
That would be Strider not Ranger ....
[/NERD]

[GEEK]
(Texas) Ranger? Maybe it was the first Chuck Norris Joke ever ...
[/GEEK]

"I don't rightly know. He is one of the wandering folk - Rangers we call them"

[ImmortalA1000]

Originally Posted by Weasel Fierce

So when people talk about Ranger it ranges from "this was a bunch of stuff on paper" to "it was basically ready to ship".

What reliable documentation do we have for the development state of Ranger, how far it was off from completion and whether it was feasible to complete?


(To clarify I am looking for SOURCES)

Sorry, don't have a link, but over a decade ago I read some page scans from an Amiga magazine that had an interview with Jay Miner after he had finished with Commodore. I can't remember which magazine it was but it wasn't a UK magazine and it was in English text.

Jay stated he completed all work on Ranger chipset but Commodore were not interested in using it as it was a VRAM based technology which bumped up the price.

That explains why we never got a 128 colour Amiga 500 replacement, VRAM chips were expensive. The Ranger Amiga models were Jay's idea of an evolution of the Amiga 1000, which Commodore settled on the A2000 for. Here it gets a bit hazy about who was working on what and when delays happened between A2000 by C= GMBH engineers and Ranger in the hands of Jay who IIRC was pretty much working alone after C= pretty much dumped the Los Gatos talent.

[Pyromania]

I guess it will always be the Lone Ranger.

[skan]

Originally Posted by ImmortalA1000

Sorry, don't have a link, but over a decade ago I read some page scans from an Amiga magazine that had an interview with Jay Miner after he had finished with Commodore. I can't remember which magazine it was but it wasn't a UK magazine and it was in English text.

Jay stated he completed all work on Ranger chipset but Commodore were not interested in using it as it was a VRAM based technology which bumped up the price.

That explains why we never got a 128 colour Amiga 500 replacement, VRAM chips were expensive. The Ranger Amiga models were Jay's idea of an evolution of the Amiga 1000, which Commodore settled on the A2000 for. Here it gets a bit hazy about who was working on what and when delays happened between A2000 by C= GMBH engineers and Ranger in the hands of Jay who IIRC was pretty much working alone after C= pretty much dumped the Los Gatos talent.

https://web.archive.org/web/20071020...interview.html

[Pyromania]

Originally Posted by TCD

You forgot military spec. Never forget military spec.

Somewhere in the world DoomMaster is smiling from ear to ear. You made his day!

[Weasel Fierce]

Originally Posted by Pyromania

Somewhere in the world DoomMaster is smiling from ear to ear. You made his day!

Some day Charlie Brown got to kick the football after all.

[ImmortalA1000]

Originally Posted by skan

https://web.archive.org/web/20071020...interview.html

Thank you.