Play CD32 games off real discs on A1200 with SquirrelSCSI?

[teh_Foxx0rz]

I've acquired a SquirrelSCSI and a SCSI CD ROM drive, and I'm looking to run at least some CD32 games from disc on my A1200 with those. I'll be using WHDLoad for the majority I presume of course, but there are several with CD audio, which WHDLoad can't handle, at least without huge CPU upgrades or whatever. So I was thinking that this would be a good solution for those handful.

My hardware seems to work; the CD ROM drive plays audio discs, and I hear it respond to the various things I was trying on the Amiga, so that part seems all clear.

However, I'm not sure of the best way to get the games to actually start loading; the best CD32 interface emulator. So far I've tried the one that comes with SquirrelSCSI, but didn't seem to have any luck, however I'm not sure if I'm missing something there. I've not tried the IDEFix97 alternative, but I thought I'd get some input first; I don't know if that'll only work for CD drives on the IDE controller or something, although I know the Amiga treats IDE and SCSI similarly. And there may well be a step or alternative I'm missing!

I'm also aware not all CD32 games can be run on a 1200; some check for the Akiko chip, and probably some other games have quirks too. The game I was trying was CD32 Fire & Ice if that makes any difference; I didn't see any mention about that being picky about being on an actual CD32, unlike Wing Commander for instance.

I tried to find more information about all this, but what I could find was either not specific enough or seemed to be quite outdated.

So, how can one go about doing this today? What options are available, and what is necessary to get it running? Many thanks.

[Octopus66]

I tried this recently too without luck using one of those new-ish Sony VAIO drives

[jotd]

Originally Posted by teh_Foxx0rz

I'm also aware not all CD32 games can be run on a 1200; some check for the Akiko chip, and probably some other games have quirks too. The game I was trying was CD32 Fire & Ice if that makes any difference; I didn't see any mention about that being picky about being on an actual CD32, unlike Wing Commander for instance.

No game checks for Akiko chip. The only ones that I know do that because they're hardware banging Akiko addresses to use CD drive directly.


Those CD games are early whd-like versions of ECS games and aren't worth trying to make run on CD anyway. Maybe except for Lotus which has CD music (I have to check this)


Akiko chip is only used through writechunkypixel graphics library call. Noone uses chunky pixel conversion directly.


Fire and Ice runs from HD if fixed properly (whdload is best).


Microcosm could require some CD device emulation, but doesn't use akiko directly either.

[teh_Foxx0rz]

But would Fire and Ice play the CD audio from HD? That's my main interest here.

[jotd]

since it uses OS to play music yes it would probably work from emulation. But I always hated all that configuration to make one game work. Personally I never could use those CD32 emulators on my setup. I had ATAPI/IDE and nothing ever worked.

[Matt_H]

Try CDBoot 1.04 by Thomas Kessler. It inserts some lines near the top of your startup-sequence that detect if a bootable CD is inserted and then asks if you want to boot from it. If you do, it sets up a CD32-like environment to run the game.

The other compatibility kludge you should look for is Commodore's cd.device wrapper. You might have trouble with some CD32 games if the code explicitly calls cd.device, which is part of the CD32 ROM. Commodore created a wrapper that captures cd.device calls and redirects them to a device/unit of your choice, e.g., scsi.device unit 3. It's part of the CD32 Developer Kit, which is on the various Amiga Developer CDs. For maximum compatibility, consider setting up your CD0: DOSDriver to use this cd.device.

[Aardvark]

Idefix 97's CD32emu is way more compatible than CDBoot, in my experience.

[Retro1234]

Originally Posted by Matt_H

The other compatibility kludge you should look for is Commodore's cd.device wrapper. You might have trouble with some CD32 games if the code explicitly calls cd.device, which is part of the CD32 ROM. Commodore created a wrapper that captures cd.device calls and redirects them to a device/unit of your choice, e.g., scsi.device unit 3. It's part of the CD32 Developer Kit, which is on the various Amiga Developer CDs. For maximum compatibility, consider setting up your CD0: DOSDriver to use this cd.device.

Totally forgot about this. One strange thing I found iirc is it didn't matter if the cd.devive point to the correct SCSI etc device as-long as the CD device was present. But my tests were just running games from HD.

[Retro1234]

I don't know about Fire and Ice but iirc the Squirrel CD32 emulator has something like a folder called Patches or something and various patches for certain games. Look in there for Fire N Ice etc.

I think it also includes someway to have nofast, no caches etc and stuff like that.

[FOL]

I spent ages working getting a self booting CD32 emu setup.


I would have to check, I just had fresh install of 3.1, then installed squirrel software and emu (pointed it to correct scsi for internal CDROM). It sets it up, to load CD32 discs when holding Mouse buttons in startup sequence. I altered this to "if CD0:S/Startup-sequence EXISTS" then put CD32 script.
So then on boot, if a disc was in drive it would see startup-sequence and boot any CD32 disc. However CDTV discs are not compatible. If no disc in drive, it would continue to load workbench.


After trying different CDFilesystems, I found the one from 3.9 was best, as every disc I threw at it loaded. The CD32 startup script, uses lots of tricks and stuff to make system think it is a real CD32.


After I had it all setup and working, I then backed up, the key things. CD0 mount file, CDFilesystem and startup sequences. Now, I just transfer them across to other setups and it works fine as long as you alter CD0 mounting points to correct devices.

I never noticed any patch drawer. They just worked. Even microcosm and that one is a bugger to run on emulated / high spec amiga hardware. I also remember Fire and Ice just working.
Still would have to check, as may have used just emu from IDEFIX package.

[teh_Foxx0rz]

Alright, I'm back. I've finally got a RAM expansion for my Amiga (and 8MB!), so I can properly play around with it! And...I seem to have got things working! ...Mostly.

The installation that came with my 1200 already had some SquirrelSCSI files, but I've gone and installed the SquirrelSCSI software from the floppy disks I got with the SquirrelSCSI, and I seem to get proper communication between the Amiga and CD-ROM drive. And I've even managed to get it to boot Fire & Ice from the CD! Excellent!

However...it runs really poorly. Very choppy. Like, it constantly freezes and starts again (I suppose you could say it's living up to its name haha).
What could be causing this problem perhaps? This is the only CD I've burned for the Amiga so I don't have much to test with yet, though I've not had problems with any disc I've burned for other systems, so I'm 99% confident it's not a problem with my burner or CD-R choice.

Anything I could do to help troubleshoot this, or perhaps anyone already has an idea of what it could be?

Thanks again everyone.

[jotd]

did you get CD music working too?

choppy, I would guess there are issues with CD interrupts. Only a guess. Fire & Ice CD works perfect from whdload (but no CD music)

[teh_Foxx0rz]

Yeah, I could hear the CD music from the CD-ROM drive; it's separate from the Amiga's of course but that's an external situation I can figure out whenever :P

But it was playing choppy along with the gameplay. At least, until I switched the Amiga off, then it started playing continuously. Which is perhaps strange; you'd think if it was just playing the track off the disc, it would just play the track off the disc. But yeah, I don't know how it all works!

But mm, I wonder what the issue with the CD interrupts could be then, if that's the case?

I think ideally, it'd be great if WHDLoad could run the game data from the hard drive, while interfacing with the CD drive to play the appropriate tracks just like if it was playing from the CD. Might be a tall order though I don't know; would be moot if I'm able to get it running fine from the CD in the end though heh.

[jotd]

Originally Posted by teh_Foxx0rz

I think ideally, it'd be great if WHDLoad could run the game data from the hard drive, while interfacing with the CD drive to play the appropriate tracks just like if it was playing from the CD. Might be a tall order though I don't know; would be moot if I'm able to get it running fine from the CD in the end though heh.

not going to happen. Bert explained that many times on this forum.

About CD operation / possible interrupts freezing the game, maybe someone with more hardware knowledge could answer. I can't.

[teh_Foxx0rz]

Right. So yeah, hopefully I can get the situation with playing it from the CD drive figured out then.

And yeah, fair enough then! Thanks all the same.

[Aardvark]

I loaded my EIDE'99 interface driver under Workbench31.slave and mounted the DosDriver for my CD-Rom, and it worked fine. I guess game slaves could work too if someone wants to tailor it for your specific CD interface.

[jotd]

you mean that you could play CD audio from a whdload slave?

[Aardvark]

Originally Posted by jotd

you mean that you could play CD audio from a whdload slave?

Yes, 4xEIDE'99 buffered IDE interface is able to escape the virtual reality with it's drivers, can also access all the files on the CD without any preloads or OS swaps.

[FOL]

Originally Posted by teh_Foxx0rz

Alright, I'm back. I've finally got a RAM expansion for my Amiga (and 8MB!), so I can properly play around with it! And...I seem to have got things working! ...Mostly.

The installation that came with my 1200 already had some SquirrelSCSI files, but I've gone and installed the SquirrelSCSI software from the floppy disks I got with the SquirrelSCSI, and I seem to get proper communication between the Amiga and CD-ROM drive. And I've even managed to get it to boot Fire & Ice from the CD! Excellent!

However...it runs really poorly. Very choppy. Like, it constantly freezes and starts again (I suppose you could say it's living up to its name haha).
What could be causing this problem perhaps? This is the only CD I've burned for the Amiga so I don't have much to test with yet, though I've not had problems with any disc I've burned for other systems, so I'm 99% confident it's not a problem with my burner or CD-R choice.

Anything I could do to help troubleshoot this, or perhaps anyone already has an idea of what it could be?

Thanks again everyone.

I'd try a fresh drive with vanilla 3.1 on it, then install everything needed to get CD32 stuff running. This would rule out lots of things.


Don't buy in to the CD burning speed myth. I think its more down to low laser emissions on CD32 lasers. Besides they were never setup to run burned discs. As long as they read manufacturerd CD's no one cared.

Are you sure CD-ROM drive is reading correctly. Does it play audio cd's fine?

[jotd]

Originally Posted by Aardvark

Yes, 4xEIDE'99 buffered IDE interface is able to escape the virtual reality with it's drivers, can also access all the files on the CD without any preloads or OS swaps.

It's really surprising. If WinUAE supported that, I guess something interesting could be done about it in CD32load.