EAB and legality...

TCD · 29 July 2008, 18:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by gklinger

Anyway, my contribution is to mention that <bad link> currently offers a wide range of <bad link> including <bad link> and the <bad link> collection. I suppose I could add them to the Wiki myself but I don't want to step on anyone's toes.

Ohoh, the bad site again

Posted it twice and now I know the board rule : No links to sites with kickstart and/or workbench roms

So if you please could remove all the links.

Graham Humphrey · 29 July 2008, 18:55

Links removed

OddbOd · 29 July 2008, 18:56

<snap>

gklinger · 29 July 2008, 19:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham Humphrey

Links removed

I was just about to do that. As long as we're on the subject...

I understand the logic behind the prohibition against promoting the distribution of Kickstart and Workbench although I thought that meant linking to those items specifically rather than a blanket ban on linking to sites that may allow one to obtain them. For instance, I can link to Google, right? (See where I'm going?) I guess I'm wondering how much obfuscation is required to counteract the hypocrisy?

If there is an existing thread for these types of discussions, please point me to it. I trust intellectual discourse on the subject is neither discouraged nor forbidden outright.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

***** is great, but links to SPS, WB & Kickstart roms aren't allowed on EAB.

Linking to downloads of the SPS collection is also forbidden? Could someone explain that one too. P&T.

Retro-Nerd · 29 July 2008, 19:11

http://eab.abime.net/faq.php?faq=eab..._caps_faq_item

gklinger · 29 July 2008, 19:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

http://eab.abime.net/faq.php?faq=eab..._caps_faq_item

That doesn't say anything about it being against the rules to link to downloads of the SPS collection. Anyway, I wasn't asking what the rule was so much as the reasoning behind it. In law school they taught us to ask these sorts of questions.

Retro-Nerd · 29 July 2008, 19:22

This was dicussed on EAB several times. The CAPS/SPS team want it this way and we have to accept their please.

TCD · 29 July 2008, 19:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by gklinger

I understand the logic behind the prohibition against promoting the distribution of Kickstart and Workbench although I thought that meant linking to those items specifically rather than a blanket ban on linking to sites that may allow one to obtain them. For instance, I can link to Google, right? (See where I'm going?) I guess I'm wondering how much obfuscation is required to counteract the hypocrisy?

Does Google host any files? It is simply the fact that (still) copyrighted material which is (still) sold which is linked here could become a problem for EAB. As I said I twice posted links to specific files on that site, but someone might be interested what else is on the site. I see no hypocrisy in that. If you decide to search for not legal content : no problem, if it's 'promoted' on EAB : bad thing.
Well for the SPS releases : I guess it's basicly the same thing since an IPF contains all information of the original.

gklinger · 29 July 2008, 20:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheCyberDruid

Does Google host any files?

Is that the Litmus test? So if I made a <search engine> and didn't host any files, that would be okay, right?

Let me make this very clear: I'm not arguing the rules; I'm trying to understand them.

Quote:

I see no hypocrisy in that.

I'd look again.

Quote:

Well for the SPS releases : I guess it's basicly the same thing since an IPF contains all information of the original.

So cracked games are okay but non-cracked games are not okay? Yeah, I'm still a little fuzzy on the rules.

Retro-Nerd · 29 July 2008, 20:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by gklinger

So cracked games are okay but non-cracked games are not okay? Yeah, I'm still a little fuzzy on the rules.

Nope, this has nothing to do with cracked or non-cracked games. Extended ADF's are allowed and non-cracked too. Check the EAB for more threads about this SPS/CAPS topic.

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=38200

TCD · 29 July 2008, 20:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by gklinger

Is that the Litmus test? So if I made a <search engine> and didn't host any files, that would be okay, right?

Well if you make a search engine that actually is a search engine then yes

And now please remove that link okay.

gklinger · 29 July 2008, 20:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheCyberDruid

Well if you make a search engine that actually is a search engine then yes

You're completely missing my point.

/me sighs

Nevermind.

Graham Humphrey · 29 July 2008, 20:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by gklinger

Let me make this very clear: I'm not arguing the rules; I'm trying to understand them.

Sites like the one you linked to directly host the KS/WB files on their site. Any site that offers such files (as well as games/apps still available to buy) or link to sites that offer them are not allowed to be linked to on EAB. I don't understand your point with search engines at all I'm afraid but I'll have a go - people can search for whatever the heck they like at their own discretion. If you posted a link containing - say - the result of a search of "Amiga Kickstart ROMs" then of course that would be removed. Obviously banning the linking of search engines full stop is a little pointless and silly.

Marcuz · 29 July 2008, 20:17

a precisation.

if you consider that whdload ready made installs that are released are for the large majority done using a SPS release and are linked to EAB (KG and Magix site) you see that it is not strictly a copyright problem for EAB but it is for SPS.

SPS' policy has to be consistent with their mission, i.e. the preservation of digital data, which is only possible by keeping themselves out of any copyright controversy: the data they salvage is not alienated by them and it's restutued only to the original copy owner, while a copy of it is preserved according their statute.

the person who provided the files for preservation may do with it as he please (copyrights still withstanding), as it's owner of the copy he purchased. so he may even decide to infringe the copyright and spread the IPF.

at this point, the same grey area in which all that is retrogaming is standing, hosts the data: unauthorized copy is still an act of piracy, but it's not viable enforcing any control of it as long as the object is not currently on sale under any form.

so it may - generally - pass through EAB with these exceptions: software still on sale and SPS

This of course means what's said in the above posts about linking, Kickstart and WB a matter of fact.

When Whdload games were firtsly starting to spread they were ruled out of here for the sole reason that the zone would have been overflown with that.
SPS were ruled out because if they would have been not, EAB would have been an accessory to a copyright infraction by SPS, as SPS was using EAB to request people to send copyrighted stuff ots way.

so: the only "legal" emulation is the one that is made possible by the copyrights owners who releases the images of the disks themselves.

all the rest, wheter it's SPS's ipfs, or planetemu's adfs, is the same thing, and the rules standing here and discriminating between them or whatever else, are just a very good compromise that has the safety and well being of EAB as purpose.

TCD · 29 July 2008, 20:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by gklinger

You're completely missing my point.

/me sighs

Nevermind.

I think I got what you meant, but hey like you said nevermind

DamienD · 29 July 2008, 20:31

All posts moved here from the Downloads ADF wiki page needs update thread...

Galahad/FLT · 29 July 2008, 23:17

Cracked games are in the public domain. It doesn't make them public domain, but they are easily gotten hold of. The copyright and protection was broken years ago, so its unlikely that a software company would moan or complain about it.

SPS/CAPS are abiding by copyright to ensure that no-one can complain about their aim. Their aim is not to break copyright or to crack the software, but to provide a valuable archive as the floppy disk medium is as stable as a drawing in sand on a beach!

The Workbench and Kickstart stuff is still copyright and still sold, hence why no links are allowed.

All of this is moot. I've just reinstalled WinUAE on my new laptop, and with a quick 20 second search with Google, I got everything I needed to have an Amiga running on my laptop.

Its not rocket science, and it irks me somewhat that people can't be bothered to simply do a cursory Google search for the items they need.

gklinger · 30 July 2008, 00:07

@Graham Humphrey: It's all a little silly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by marco pedrana

When Whdload games were firtsly starting to spread they were ruled out of here for the sole reason that the zone would have been overflown with that.

Finally, some straight talk. It wasn't the legality or the morality; it was the logistics.

I'm dropping the matter because it is becoming abundantly clear that few, if any, actually understand copyright law and what they think they know is supposition based upon fallacy. Anyway, I'll do my best not to violate the capricious and arbitrary rules and if (when) I do I trust someone will be along to do this:

Galahad/FLT · 30 July 2008, 00:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by gklinger

@Graham Humphrey: It's all a little silly.

Finally, some straight talk. It wasn't the legality or the morality; it was the logistics.

I'm dropping the matter because it is becoming abundantly clear that few, if any, actually understand copyright law and what they think they know is supposition based upon fallacy. Anyway, I'll do my best not to violate the capricious and arbitrary rules and if (when) I do I trust someone will be along to do this:

We're all to well aware about Copyright laws, but the software industry has changed somewhat since the games were first published, most of the software companies that created the games no longer exist or were swallowed up.

People like Cloanto will and do protect their copyrights, Ocean software no longer exist and don't give a damn, theres the difference.

Marcuz · 30 July 2008, 00:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by gklinger

@Graham Humphrey: It's all a little silly.

Finally, some straight talk. It wasn't the legality or the morality; it was the logistics.

heh morality is always about the logistic

the former doesn't exist without the latter. in this case, simply the logistic of the mantainance in life of EAB - so the greater good - discriminates what's right and wrong to allow its members to do.

i appreciate the questions to the management of the board, but as far as moderation is concerned, the first goal is the protection of this place from other parts that may damage it in a silly way for silly reasons.

29 July 2008, 20:17	#14
Marcuz Registered User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: . Age: 48 Posts: 5,562	a precisation. if you consider that whdload ready made installs that are released are for the large majority done using a SPS release and are linked to EAB (KG and Magix site) you see that it is not strictly a copyright problem for EAB but it is for SPS. SPS' policy has to be consistent with their mission, i.e. the preservation of digital data, which is only possible by keeping themselves out of any copyright controversy: the data they salvage is not alienated by them and it's restutued only to the original copy owner, while a copy of it is preserved according their statute. the person who provided the files for preservation may do with it as he please (copyrights still withstanding), as it's owner of the copy he purchased. so he may even decide to infringe the copyright and spread the IPF. at this point, the same grey area in which all that is retrogaming is standing, hosts the data: unauthorized copy is still an act of piracy, but it's not viable enforcing any control of it as long as the object is not currently on sale under any form. so it may - generally - pass through EAB with these exceptions: software still on sale and SPS This of course means what's said in the above posts about linking, Kickstart and WB a matter of fact. When Whdload games were firtsly starting to spread they were ruled out of here for the sole reason that the zone would have been overflown with that. SPS were ruled out because if they would have been not, EAB would have been an accessory to a copyright infraction by SPS, as SPS was using EAB to request people to send copyrighted stuff ots way. so: the only "legal" emulation is the one that is made possible by the copyrights owners who releases the images of the disks themselves. all the rest, wheter it's SPS's ipfs, or planetemu's adfs, is the same thing, and the rules standing here and discriminating between them or whatever else, are just a very good compromise that has the safety and well being of EAB as purpose. Last edited by Marcuz; 29 July 2008 at 20:23.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Hello EAB	Kefty	Member Introductions	1	18 February 2013 10:46
New to EAB	Dragonheart	Member Introductions	8	11 November 2012 03:21
EAB and QT	zipper	project.EAB	8	26 January 2007 12:02
EAB OLD vs EAB NEW Comparision (56K warning)	Bloodwych	project.EAB	28	27 April 2004 10:33
EAB	Bombjacker	Amiga websites reviews	7	14 September 2001 22:28

29 July 2008, 18:55	#2
Graham Humphrey Moderator Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK Age: 37 Posts: 11,168	Links removed

29 July 2008, 18:56	#3
OddbOd Registered User Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Australia Age: 47 Posts: 666	<snap>

29 July 2008, 19:11	#5
Retro-Nerd Missile Command Champion Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Germany Age: 52 Posts: 12,457	http://eab.abime.net/faq.php?faq=eab..._caps_faq_item

29 July 2008, 19:22	#7
Retro-Nerd Missile Command Champion Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Germany Age: 52 Posts: 12,457	This was dicussed on EAB several times. The CAPS/SPS team want it this way and we have to accept their please.

29 July 2008, 20:31	#16
DamienD Banned Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: London / Sydney Age: 47 Posts: 20,420	All posts moved here from the Downloads ADF wiki page needs update thread...

29 July 2008, 23:17	#17
Galahad/FLT Going nowhere Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: United Kingdom Age: 50 Posts: 9,016	Cracked games are in the public domain. It doesn't make them public domain, but they are easily gotten hold of. The copyright and protection was broken years ago, so its unlikely that a software company would moan or complain about it. SPS/CAPS are abiding by copyright to ensure that no-one can complain about their aim. Their aim is not to break copyright or to crack the software, but to provide a valuable archive as the floppy disk medium is as stable as a drawing in sand on a beach! The Workbench and Kickstart stuff is still copyright and still sold, hence why no links are allowed. All of this is moot. I've just reinstalled WinUAE on my new laptop, and with a quick 20 second search with Google, I got everything I needed to have an Amiga running on my laptop. Its not rocket science, and it irks me somewhat that people can't be bothered to simply do a cursory Google search for the items they need.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)