No love for BBC-B

Anubis · 24 August 2023, 14:41

As part of RGL (Retro Gaming League) we are playing Repton 3 for BBC-B. It is nice and unforgiven game that is somewhat similar to Boulder Dash, but requires lots of planning and correct execution. It is very easy to block progress, even you have all lives left in the game. I have not emulated BBC-B in a while and now that I had to emulate it just noticed that BBC-B never got retro arch (or any other multi-system emulator except MAME that has most of them) core.

Makes me wonder if there is reason for that. There is no native emulator for BBC-B on RPi, which is spiritual successor for original BBC B idea to use computers for education.

Any idea why that might be?

khph_re · 24 August 2023, 16:44

Only schools and teachers kids had them maybe (Pretty expensive)? And unknown internationally?

I only knew one kid at school with one, and his dad got it on discount as he was the science teacher. THey Got an Amstrad in the end.

Daedalus · 24 August 2023, 17:06

Yup, home users tended to go for the Electron instead, which was a cut-down version of the BBC. But it's still slightly odd that there aren't native emulators - it's the sort of thing that does exist elsewhere and could easily be ported. There are even BBC emulators for the Amiga

Coagulus · 24 August 2023, 18:54

It's a shame it's not in Retroarch as the Android emulator (Beebdroid) is good but no external pad support.

And there are a few Beeb emulators on the Pi I think. Although I did install RISCOS on mine

Megalomaniac · 24 August 2023, 18:58

Never really used one outside schools, though a friend did have an Electron in its dying days commercially. Pretty sure it was only successful in the UK, and even then not hugely, but a shame its forgotten - not only did Elite originate on it, but also The Sentinel, Exile, Thrust and more. And I think Martin Edmondson who did Beast got his start on it, as well as David Braben, Sir Geoff Crammond and (bizarrely) Chris Roberts of Wing Commander fame and Nick Pelling of Wing Commander fame.

Ian · 24 August 2023, 19:29

Havent the libretro guys kind of peed everyone off who writes emulators?

It's a shame that there's no real work taking place on any cores at present as it's great having everything in one place all supporting the same set end user options.

It's pretty easy to add to mame in retro arch though so you get all the retroarch benefits even if there isn't a bespoke version.

That does involve having too lots of the same image files though as mame only works with specific version via software lists.

Anubis · 24 August 2023, 19:35

I used BeebEm, like I did 20-some years ago, and it feels aged. Could not get any of my controllers mapped, so using keyboard with it. Having it as core being part of RetroArch (or any other multi-system emulator) would solve many of issues, but seems there is not enough interest in BBC-B.

I think that only reason it was popular in my country, most of staff at computer magazines/TV had BBC-B (used to show lists/text on TV program) and according to some early basic test - it had quite fast basic compared to rest of the computers from that age.

Galahad/FLT · 24 August 2023, 20:41

The problem with the old Beeb, was that it really sidnt have enough of its own games for someone to warrant bothering.

Sure it had some conversions, but they were never the best looking or sounding version.

Outside of BEEB circles, many have never heard of Repton or Codename Droid or the other specific BEEB games, so it's probably a lot of work to realise what is a small group of people waiting for it.

I say that as an ex-Beeb owner.

trixster · 24 August 2023, 20:52

I’m a massive BBC fan and I still have our family one that dad bought in Oct 1983. I’ve now also got a Master, an Atom, an Arc 420/1, Arc A3000 and A3020. There’s a very active community on the Stardot forum and Discord server.

Retro1234 · 24 August 2023, 21:42

Loved "Logo" back in the day, can't think of anything else. We had some RM nimbus? At school some x86 computer that seemed to all have BBC emulator installed on them.

Anubis · 24 August 2023, 21:51

Forgot to mention, it was computer used in Computer Programme - TV show that I remember watching as 10/11 yo kid back then and probably was one of reason I chose IT as profession.

[ Show youtube player ]

Show was recorded in 82 and I did post before prediction about technology, computers and internet from late Rex Malik (Malik Reports) at the end of first episode.

For those interested, move to 22:00 on this episode
[ Show youtube player ]

Superman · 25 August 2023, 00:07

I had a BBC micro as a kid, its still in the garage where it has been for about 30 years or so. Its a bit worse for wear now.

fxgogo · 25 August 2023, 00:49

For the p, the best way to experience the Beeb is through RISC OS. As a modern update to the OS originally on the Archimedes, it has all sorts of support for the BBC.

Dunny · 25 August 2023, 01:56

I had The Emulator back in the day on my A1000. That rocked so much, it was so fast.

Snoopy1234 · 25 August 2023, 13:26

Our school had Beeb rooms for use up to year 9 then we had Macs after that. We used *REMOTE on the network to hijack another students computer but were scolded for it. We used Logo on TRS-80, Apple II and Beeb so that was fun. I bought an Apple II and Beeb last year for nostalgia. The Beeb has a MMC game rom in it which I couldn't write to disk because the producer has locked it - but I tried.

It also has a JS Tech scan-doubler and Retro Computer Shack Scart cable which still jitters but is viewable.
I've used Retroarch with Wii Dolphin core on Xbox but not many others. Maybe an open source group or Github would be fertile ground for a Beeb core.

A500 · 25 August 2023, 14:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megalomaniac

Never really used one outside schools, though a friend did have an Electron in its dying days commercially. Pretty sure it was only successful in the UK, and even then not hugely, but a shame its forgotten - not only did Elite originate on it, but also The Sentinel, Exile, Thrust and more. And I think Martin Edmondson who did Beast got his start on it, as well as David Braben, Sir Geoff Crammond and (bizarrely) Chris Roberts of Wing Commander fame and Nick Pelling of Wing Commander fame.

I never knew that about The Sentinel and Thrust. Two of the greatest 8-bit creations I know.

Megalomaniac · 25 August 2023, 23:00

Thrust was actually released for the C64 first though, because Superior Software wanted an Electron version on the same tape, and that took longer than the C64 version

Adropac2 · 26 August 2023, 06:48

Yes it definitely should be included as part of all multi emulators as it's a significant part of this time

CCCP alert · 26 August 2023, 11:50

The problem with the BBC is the audio comes from a small cheap[er than TV] speaker in the echo-ridden casing and there are only 8 colours. Apart from those 2 things, which the Master 128-512 inherited, it is a fine machine. Fast 2mh 6502, fast access to memory. Pretty good implementation of BASIC and DOS commands too.

Used one daily for years, whilst being the owner of a C64 and 520ST, in the mid 80s. The BBC B 32k and then Master 128 model cost as much as a 520ST, but the ST was bundled with a 3.5" disk drive and not a tape deck. There wasn't even a D9 joystick interface either, which they did make for the Sinclair machines.

Elite is really the only game of historical note on it in the grand scheme of things, all the other games were pretty much just poor ports or inferior copies of what the other kids were playing on Atari, Amstrad, C64 to be honest.

AestheticDebris · 26 August 2023, 14:12

Elite and Exile were the two BBC games that most stood out to me. Well, there was Repton but I wasn't a massive fan of that.

I do seem to remember there was no volume control or way to turn the sound off though.

24 August 2023, 14:41	#1
Anubis Retro Gamer Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Underworld Age: 51 Posts: 4,061	No love for BBC-B As part of RGL (Retro Gaming League) we are playing Repton 3 for BBC-B. It is nice and unforgiven game that is somewhat similar to Boulder Dash, but requires lots of planning and correct execution. It is very easy to block progress, even you have all lives left in the game. I have not emulated BBC-B in a while and now that I had to emulate it just noticed that BBC-B never got retro arch (or any other multi-system emulator except MAME that has most of them) core. Makes me wonder if there is reason for that. There is no native emulator for BBC-B on RPi, which is spiritual successor for original BBC B idea to use computers for education. Any idea why that might be? Last edited by Anubis; 24 August 2023 at 15:32.

24 August 2023, 19:29	#6
Ian Global Moderator Join Date: May 2001 Location: Derby, UK Age: 46 Posts: 2,287	Havent the libretro guys kind of peed everyone off who writes emulators? It's a shame that there's no real work taking place on any cores at present as it's great having everything in one place all supporting the same set end user options. It's pretty easy to add to mame in retro arch though so you get all the retroarch benefits even if there isn't a bespoke version. That does involve having too lots of the same image files though as mame only works with specific version via software lists. Last edited by Ian; 24 August 2023 at 19:49.

24 August 2023, 21:51	#11
Anubis Retro Gamer Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Underworld Age: 51 Posts: 4,061	Forgot to mention, it was computer used in Computer Programme - TV show that I remember watching as 10/11 yo kid back then and probably was one of reason I chose IT as profession. [ Show youtube player ] Show was recorded in 82 and I did post before prediction about technology, computers and internet from late Rex Malik (Malik Reports) at the end of first episode. For those interested, move to 22:00 on this episode [ Show youtube player ] Last edited by Anubis; 25 August 2023 at 13:12.

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24 August 2023, 16:44	#2
khph_re Registered User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Northampton/UK Posts: 525	Only schools and teachers kids had them maybe (Pretty expensive)? And unknown internationally? I only knew one kid at school with one, and his dad got it on discount as he was the science teacher. THey Got an Amstrad in the end.

24 August 2023, 17:06	#3
Daedalus Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Dublin, then Glasgow Posts: 6,343	Yup, home users tended to go for the Electron instead, which was a cut-down version of the BBC. But it's still slightly odd that there aren't native emulators - it's the sort of thing that does exist elsewhere and could easily be ported. There are even BBC emulators for the Amiga

24 August 2023, 18:54	#4
Coagulus Gets there in the end... Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Wales Posts: 863	It's a shame it's not in Retroarch as the Android emulator (Beebdroid) is good but no external pad support. And there are a few Beeb emulators on the Pi I think. Although I did install RISCOS on mine

24 August 2023, 18:58	#5
Megalomaniac Registered User Join Date: Sep 2022 Location: Eastbourne Posts: 1,014	Never really used one outside schools, though a friend did have an Electron in its dying days commercially. Pretty sure it was only successful in the UK, and even then not hugely, but a shame its forgotten - not only did Elite originate on it, but also The Sentinel, Exile, Thrust and more. And I think Martin Edmondson who did Beast got his start on it, as well as David Braben, Sir Geoff Crammond and (bizarrely) Chris Roberts of Wing Commander fame and Nick Pelling of Wing Commander fame.

24 August 2023, 19:35	#7
Anubis Retro Gamer Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Underworld Age: 51 Posts: 4,061	I used BeebEm, like I did 20-some years ago, and it feels aged. Could not get any of my controllers mapped, so using keyboard with it. Having it as core being part of RetroArch (or any other multi-system emulator) would solve many of issues, but seems there is not enough interest in BBC-B. I think that only reason it was popular in my country, most of staff at computer magazines/TV had BBC-B (used to show lists/text on TV program) and according to some early basic test - it had quite fast basic compared to rest of the computers from that age.

24 August 2023, 20:41	#8
Galahad/FLT Going nowhere Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: United Kingdom Age: 50 Posts: 8,994	The problem with the old Beeb, was that it really sidnt have enough of its own games for someone to warrant bothering. Sure it had some conversions, but they were never the best looking or sounding version. Outside of BEEB circles, many have never heard of Repton or Codename Droid or the other specific BEEB games, so it's probably a lot of work to realise what is a small group of people waiting for it. I say that as an ex-Beeb owner.

24 August 2023, 20:52	#9
trixster Guru Meditating Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: England Posts: 2,339	I’m a massive BBC fan and I still have our family one that dad bought in Oct 1983. I’ve now also got a Master, an Atom, an Arc 420/1, Arc A3000 and A3020. There’s a very active community on the Stardot forum and Discord server.

24 August 2023, 21:42	#10
Retro1234 Phone Homer Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: 5150 Posts: 5,775	Loved "Logo" back in the day, can't think of anything else. We had some RM nimbus? At school some x86 computer that seemed to all have BBC emulator installed on them.

25 August 2023, 00:07	#12
Superman Super Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Wakefield Age: 48 Posts: 1,334	I had a BBC micro as a kid, its still in the garage where it has been for about 30 years or so. Its a bit worse for wear now.

25 August 2023, 00:49	#13
fxgogo Also known as GarethQ Join Date: May 2019 Location: Twickenham / U.K. Posts: 718	For the p, the best way to experience the Beeb is through RISC OS. As a modern update to the OS originally on the Archimedes, it has all sorts of support for the BBC.

25 August 2023, 01:56	#14
Dunny Registered User Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Scunthorpe/United Kingdom Posts: 1,990	I had The Emulator back in the day on my A1000. That rocked so much, it was so fast.

25 August 2023, 13:26	#15
Snoopy1234 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2022 Location: Australia Age: 52 Posts: 844	Our school had Beeb rooms for use up to year 9 then we had Macs after that. We used *REMOTE on the network to hijack another students computer but were scolded for it. We used Logo on TRS-80, Apple II and Beeb so that was fun. I bought an Apple II and Beeb last year for nostalgia. The Beeb has a MMC game rom in it which I couldn't write to disk because the producer has locked it - but I tried. It also has a JS Tech scan-doubler and Retro Computer Shack Scart cable which still jitters but is viewable. I've used Retroarch with Wii Dolphin core on Xbox but not many others. Maybe an open source group or Github would be fertile ground for a Beeb core.

25 August 2023, 23:00	#17
Megalomaniac Registered User Join Date: Sep 2022 Location: Eastbourne Posts: 1,014	Thrust was actually released for the C64 first though, because Superior Software wanted an Electron version on the same tape, and that took longer than the C64 version

26 August 2023, 06:48	#18
Adropac2 Zone Friend Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Age: 51 Posts: 1,060	Yes it definitely should be included as part of all multi emulators as it's a significant part of this time

26 August 2023, 11:50	#19
CCCP alert Registered User Join Date: May 2023 Location: essex Posts: 457	The problem with the BBC is the audio comes from a small cheap[er than TV] speaker in the echo-ridden casing and there are only 8 colours. Apart from those 2 things, which the Master 128-512 inherited, it is a fine machine. Fast 2mh 6502, fast access to memory. Pretty good implementation of BASIC and DOS commands too. Used one daily for years, whilst being the owner of a C64 and 520ST, in the mid 80s. The BBC B 32k and then Master 128 model cost as much as a 520ST, but the ST was bundled with a 3.5" disk drive and not a tape deck. There wasn't even a D9 joystick interface either, which they did make for the Sinclair machines. Elite is really the only game of historical note on it in the grand scheme of things, all the other games were pretty much just poor ports or inferior copies of what the other kids were playing on Atari, Amstrad, C64 to be honest.

26 August 2023, 14:12	#20
AestheticDebris Registered User Join Date: May 2023 Location: Norwich Posts: 378	Elite and Exile were the two BBC games that most stood out to me. Well, there was Repton but I wasn't a massive fan of that. I do seem to remember there was no volume control or way to turn the sound off though.

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