Apple trying to outlaw emulation

[Minuous]

https://ia801504.us.archive.org/28/i...555634.1.0.pdf

Let's hope this lawsuit fails, for the sake of our freedoms...

[Foebane]

I'm not reading all that legalese, but this is some company vs Apple, a (very much) live company (unfortunately). I would think that the situation is different for a long-dead company like Commodore.

And if Apple ARE trying to make ALL emulation illegal, I say FUCK 'EM. I've always hated Apple, it should've died rather than Commodore and Atari.

[lmimmfn]

Apple, the same company who were proud to demonstrate PS1 emulation on MacOS

[Amigajay]

Originally Posted by lmimmfn

Apple, the same company who were proud to demonstrate PS1 emulation on MacOS

I don’t think anybody saw it

[Foebane]

Originally Posted by lmimmfn

Apple, the same company who were proud to demonstrate PS1 emulation on MacOS

Games? On Apple computers??? What IS this CRAZY TALK!?!?!

[tero]

This company is copying apple software. Even downloading from apples own servers and than selling it to their customers.
I've read through it and i think apple is right in this case. None of the claims has to do with emulation.

(I may have misunderstood a thing here and there as my english isn't my first language.)

[Samurai_Crow]

This is the same as suing for unlicensed software by any other copyright holder. Emulation is only illegal if you don't pay the copyright owner and this lawsuit doesn't change that fact.

[Minuous]

@tero: From my understanding the users download the OS directly from Apple.

@Samurai Crow: What licence should be required to be obtained by an emulator developer? I don't see why they should be paying Apple anything. Am I supposed to pay Emerson, Interton, etc. because I wrote an emulator of their systems?

[tero]

@Minuous
The problem is they not only sell the emulator but the software as well. The customer don't pay apple to use the software. They pay the company and get an apple for 'free'

[Minuous]

If Apple makes their OS freely available from their site, I don't see how it's an emulator developer's fault, or anybody's fault, that people download the OS.

[Samurai_Crow]

I get it now. It isn't Toni Wilen's fault if end users download bootleg Kickstart images.

[gulliver]

Well, Apple lawyers are indeed smart: they know that the emulator by itself could stand as legal in court. If you read carefully, they are suing them between other things for re-using the "GUI Elements". And in that front, they could certainly win the case.

[Minuous]

Presumably meaning in layman's terms that they had some screenshots on their site, and/or because the emulator's window has rounded corners. :-(

[gulliver]

Originally Posted by Minuous

Presumably meaning in layman's terms that they had some screenshots on their site, and/or because the emulator's window has rounded corners. :-(

Yes, I am sure that the core of their allegation will be something as stupid as that.

It is a crazy world we are living in.

[malko]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasb.../#39501f144a3b

[DamienD]

Interesting article malko

...but slightly scary at the same time given the power this also gives hackers.

Luckily I don't own / use anything Apple

[robinsonb5]

Originally Posted by Minuous

If Apple makes their OS freely available from their site.

Just because it's possible to download a file from a website doesn't mean it's fair game for any use. By default copyright law doesn't give you the right to download and use it at all - whatever rights you have (besides whatever fair use rights exist in your country) are granted by the copyright holder, so Apple are perfectly within their rights to make something available for public download but stipulate that it may only be used on Apple hardware.

If you or I download a copy anyway, just to tinker with it, realistically no-one's going to care (and it may fall under fair use, depending on where we live). If someone makes a system that creates a virtual replica of Apple's hardware, automates the process of downloading the system software into that replica, and makes significant amounts of money from that product then a lawsuit from the copyright holder is pretty much inevitable, however cool the project might be.

@tero: From my understanding the users download the OS directly from Apple.

To the extent that this is true, this is covered by the complaint of "contributory copyright infringement" in the lawsuit.


So yeah, the lawsuit's about the commercial explotation of Apple's IP, not about emulation per se.

[Minuous]

Originally Posted by robinsonb5

Apple are perfectly within their rights to make something available for public download but stipulate that it may only be used on Apple hardware.

If such stipulations are not already illegal, they certainly ought to be. IIRC Sony tried a similar argument saying the PS1 BIOS was only authorized to be used on Sony hardware, but they lost. The right of format shifting is a well established one.

[robinsonb5]

Originally Posted by Minuous

If such stipulations are not already illegal, they certainly ought to be. IIRC Sony tried a similar argument saying the PS1 BIOS was only authorized to be used on Sony hardware, but they lost. The right of format shifting is a well established one.

They lost because the product in question didn't contain a copy of Sony's BIOS - the alleged copies were made during the development and reverse engineering stage which was deemed to be fair use.

There's a big difference between format shifting a product that you've bought and thus have the right to use, and making money from a product which makes unauthorised copies of someone else's product, even if the asking price for the copied product is zero.

[Minuous]

So I presume the problem, if any, is that part of the install script for the emulator is to download the OS? Therefore, if the users were required to do this step manually, or via a third-party script, there would be no issue?