Details for the next generation of Flickerfixers from Individual Computers

[johnim]

Thankyou jens

[demolition]

The new test button seems to work good and will make it easier to adjust offsets properly, however the MkII seems to have a mind of its own sometimes. I made an adjustment to my WB mode (h offset) and tried the test button. It looked right but I pressed Esc to see if it would return me to the old mode, which it did. I then pressed Apply to set the settings I just tested, and then my monitor turned off. Now it doesn't turn on at all in that mode even after a reboot, so it seems that part of the settings are corrupted somewhere as they should be valid. This weird behavior was also there with the previous core.
Another weird issue: I had PPaint on a PAL screen and WB on a HighGfx screen and could switch between them fine. I then dragged down the PPaint screen to reveal the WB screen and then my monitor turned off as it didn't receive a signal anymore. I still had the mousebutton pressed and tried pulling the window back up, but I never got a signal back, even after pressing the button in the upper right corner. I had to reset the machine to get a picture again. I've had other similar issues with the screen suddenly turning off, as if it's ending up in some invalid state it can't get out of, short of a reset.

[Retrofan]

Perfect. Now I've got my Pal screen for games perfectly centered. It was just to use the Test button, selecting override limits and center it with offset (measuring with a ruler on my Tv) and later to adjust with overscan for programs that use Workbench settings. Now all is centered.

I will have to try a full screen for Pal now, and I've got to adjust HighGfx as it's just a little to the right. Edit: HighGfx fixed with H-Offset 2.

Now how do I adjust Superplus if it isn't in the Config Tool?

[keropi]

I tried the new config tool , it is a great improvement
I did get a couple of hard-lockups though when using it... once the MK2 froze to blank screen and I had to press the "apply" button twice to get it unstuck (had image from crt tv)
I was able to set a 800x600 75.222hz screen but had a vertical line of artifacts on the center of it, so I had to settle for 74.028hz which seems artifact-free (monitor recognizes it as 74hz too) , apparently those extra 0.222hz cause problems for me. Other pre-set 75hz modes don't have those artifacts, maybe the 800x600 one is "sensitive"

[Schoenfeld]

The configtool re-configures the FPGA quite often (twice on every "test" or "apply" click), which causes sync signals to the monitor being turned off for a fraction of a second. It also happens here that I get a black screen. However, it's not the flickerfixer that causes it, but the monitor is in an undefined state, because it does not like switching between resolutions all the time. I have a setup that connects VGA and DVI monitors at the same time, plus a multisync monitor on the 23-pin RGB port of the Amiga (yep, three monitors showing the same image). Mostly the Dell DVI monitor is the one that goes into power saving after switching modes too often.

The "drag screen and turn black" thing is worth investigating. Can this be reproduced? This may be in line with a problem we have between two computers: One of them cannot display Euro72 with the number of lines that my Amigas produce. All my Amigas show Euro72 (non-lace) with 416 lines. However, the Amiga of the author of the config tool shows Euro72 with 402 lines, which causes the screenmode recognition to fail. We've tried using my overscan settings file, my screenmode settings file and my monitor types, even jumpered the machines to PAL or NTSC, but it's always the same: One computer shows Euro72 with 416 lines, the other just 402 lines (switch on OSD debug line, first number on the left is the number of lines). Any hints welcome, because this is just weird behaviour.

Same goes for offsets of the screenmodes: These are different for just about every computer, because the overscan prefs are set to different values. It will therefore be required for almost everyone to tick the "override limits" menu item and set offset values to something that matches your overscan prefs settings.

keropi, if you're generating a 75Hz screen, I'm assuming that you are using a pretty high pixel clock. However, this may cause the memory to underrun, because memory is currently only running at just over 120MHz. For pixel clocks over 126MHz, this may cause trouble, resulting in distorted picture and trash being displayed especially in the right parts of the screen. For such high pixel clocks, I'll have to increase memory clock speed, which is on the todo list. The whole design is geared towards a memory performance that supports the maximum pixelclock that the DVI encoder supports: 165MHz. However, it requires quite a bit of tweaking, and with other options missing (such as line tripling, output pixel doubling), this is fairly low on the todo list. Better stick with output pixel clocks under 126MHz for the time being.

There's still some debugging to do on the output side. The "blue shadows" that user demolition has revealed is something that I think may be located there, and there's also more tweaking to do on the DVI PLL settings. The "black screen" effect after changing screenmodes too often may be cured with a more sophisticated PLL init procedure, which is also on the todo list.

Further, I have ordered three more DVI displays with different panel sizes: One Samsung, one Acer and one HP. I'd like to make sure that they all work before I continue sales of Indivision AGA MK2.

Jens

[keropi]

@Jens

thanks for replying, I am actually setting a pixel clock between 49 and 50mhz.
My monitor needs 49.50mhz to display 800x600/75hz and I tried the 2 closest values on the tool (can't remember them atm I am not near the amiga atm) , the one that is under 49.50 gives a 74hz screen and the one above 49.50 gives a 75.222hz screen.
It feels strange that .222 hz can cause problems whereas a full 1hz lower is fine
Hope this is of help , I am getting a red flashing vertical line on the center of the screen and nowhere else, I can post a pic if you need or provide more details if you think that this could be a bug or wrong setting .

edit: some more info on the artifacts that I forgot to write, I hope they are of some help

They are actually red/pink moving pixels in the center of the screen. They don't always show up. On my normal workbench screen you can see them but if for example you open a full-screen guide file (that has that light gray background) they disappear. Closing the guide makes them show again. They are present on both PAL modes (normal and interlaced) and I have only seen them on the 75.222hz 800x600 screen. 1280x1024 and 1024x768 75hz screens don't have them.

[demolition]

I had some pixel corruption when I was creating the 1280x720 mode, but after increasing the pixel clock and changing the porch settings to get the correct h/v clocks again, the problems disappeared. I don't know if it was the Indivision or my monitor that caused it, but if you have the issues, you could probably improve it by fiddling with the VGA mode.

Edit: I think the drag-screen-down problem is related to the black screen I get after changing modes some times, since it will change to my HighGfx WB mode when I drag down the PAL screen. Since rebooting the Amiga is the only way to get a picture back, I assume that the problem is in the MkII, perhaps an unclean clock as you mention. If I had an oscilloscope it could be useful to watch if the clocks change in any way when this happens.

[FOL]

Has a tool with test function been released yet?

[BarryB]

Post #2058 FOL:

http://icomp.de/products/AGAmk2/MK2_CFG_V10.LHA

[FOL]

Originally Posted by BarryB

Post #2058 FOL:

http://icomp.de/products/AGAmk2/MK2_CFG_V10.LHA

Sorry, it was a joke, could'nt resist. I have to come to a forum to find out updates about products we sell, crazy.

/me hides from Jens, .

I'm running the MK2 with no big problems (except screen offset in PAL mode) with the original firmware. After updating my Philips TFT doesn't pick up any signal, no matter what mode i'm trying to run.

So my question is, which are the settings (default settings original firmware) which I can use to make a headstart with new firmware.

Regards!

[Mr B]

Originally Posted by FOL

Sorry, it was a joke, could'nt resist. I have to come to a forum to find out updates about products we sell, crazy.

I see your point, but i think Jens makes a difference on beta software, and finalized product. Either way, i love seeing that there is progress.

[keropi]

@demolition

thanks for the tip, I played with the values you mentioned and got an approximation of what my monitor supports, I get no flashing pixels now

@Jens

is it possible to add default VESA modes on the pre-configured list? If you take a look on the modes below (from my monitors specs sheet) , pc ones are referred to as "VESA" :



if those are indeed the exact VESA specs then it would be nice to have them available without micro-tweaking values... personally I did not find a combo for the 800x600@75hz mode that has those exact values, only close to those that seem to work OK...


edit:
I have found the following table that has detailed values on VESA modes, they seem to work fine with indivision for me:



source: http://martin.hinner.info/vga/timing.html , more timings here: http://tinyvga.com/vga-timing

Jens is there a reason that the MK2 pixel clock values are not exact like on the table above? Or there is no reason to be exact values?
Also I notice there is no close value for 56.250 , 75.00 and 94.50 pixel clocks. I understand we still have a beta in our hands , just want to help

edit2:
started cross-checking the default modes against the above table and found these differences:

640x480/60hz : difference in pixel clock , difference in vertical front and back porch
800x600/56hz: difference in pixel clock , horrizontal front and back porch , vertical sync and back porch
1024x768/75hz: difference in pixel clock , maybe 79.818 is better?
1024x768885hz: difference in pixel clock , the values jump from 92.6 to 96.2


edit3:
after working with 800x600/75hz I found that setting the pixel clock to 49.094 gives a v-freq of 74.503hz and it works OK
setting it to 49.886 gives a v-freq of 75.705hz that has the moving pixels on the middle...
maybe my monitor needs exact 49.5 pixel clock to display an exact 75hz screen?

[Retrofan]

Originally Posted by Mr B

I see your point, but i think Jens makes a difference on beta software, and finalized product. Either way, i love seeing that there is progress.

Indeed...

Originally Posted by Schoenfeld

...
Further, I have ordered three more DVI displays with different panel sizes: One Samsung, one Acer and one HP. I'd like to make sure that they all work before I continue sales of Indivision AGA MK2.
Jens

BTW, now that I'm posting... how do I select a configuration for SuperPlus when I haven't got it on the Config options?

[keropi]

Originally Posted by Retrofan

BTW, now that I'm posting... how do I select a configuration for SuperPlus when I haven't got it on the Config options?

same here, there is no SuperPlus on the list...
I also found that HighGFX, XTREME, SuperPlus they all flash the upper part of the screen when you open drawers etc...

[demolition]

Originally Posted by Retrofan

BTW, now that I'm posting... how do I select a configuration for SuperPlus when I haven't got it on the Config options?

Read his post:
http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=...postcount=1961

[Retrofan]

Ok, thanks. But it is Pal interlaced 800x600 for SuperPlus, and I can't get it working full screen yet (BTW it goes from 60Hz to 100Hz the next, no 72,75,80 or 85). BTW it would be nice if the Text button would turn off after 15 seconds. It's difficult to click on a button to close it that you can't see. (Edit: OK. A Esc does the job)

Edit: Ok, I've got with the config tool a Test screen perfect with Pal interlaced 1280x566 (overrided, it was x1024), h-offset 72, v-offset 30, but later SuperPlus isn't like that.

Edit: I think SuperPlus should have some attention. I believe I will preffer this over HighGfx as it's faster for an ACA (I think they should be first on preferences)... I mean that if an Os runs well with 1024x768 (it seems that HighGfx is the mode that gives less problems) and 16 colors, it can run as fast with 800x600, 64 colors. Perfect size for icons and it works with WinUAE.

[NovaCoder]

Ok I had a quick play with the new config tool last night (I was running the original core) and I need some help.

After flashing I noticed straight away that what it calls 'PAL Interlaced' looks pretty much perfect with my monitor (full screen, centered and no glitches). So I've set my WB to PAL 640x512 and all is good, I also tested PAL 1280x512 and that was also perfect.

My problem is with what the config tool refers to as 'PAL', this mode is used by non-WB software (eg SysInfo) and also strangely enough with my own software (my software runs from WB and uses WB screen modes).

To start with the image for PAL was quite small and off to the right, I had a bit of a play around (change the positioning from overscan to default and maybe changed the resolution), and finally got an image for PAL that was centered and filled about 3/4 of the screen. Unfortunately if I run something like Quake 2 AGA it looks terrible (the colors seem completely off) and I also get the flash red line of corrupt pixels in the center of the screen (as mentioned above). Anyone have any ideas?

I've got an Amiga meeting to present at this Sunday so I need Quake 2 to look good. If I can get it looking right with this new core, how to I flash back to the original core?

My monitor doesn't have an OSD for it's current refresh rate BTW which doesn't help when trying to guess what it should be set to.

[johnim]

hi novacoder to flash back to old core get the files from jens site and use the tool from that

I havent tried latest yet so can help

[Schoenfeld]

SuperPlus: This mode was released after the Indivision AGA MK2 was released. You can't expect me to support this and maybe more modes for all times in the future. I might do it, but at this point, we have "known bugs" to fix first. I'm happy to collect information, but I won't open a new construction site when the old one is not yet finished.

Other VGA modes: You can create them on your own, that's what the "VGA modes" menu item from the drop-down menu is for. Save your config and share it with others. There's myriads of presets in the world, and as keropi has shown, even openly available documentation is contradictory. I am supplying preset VGA modes as a reference for convenience, and if there's an error, I'm happy to correct it. However, I won't do the work of adapting everyone's config to specific monitors. That's what the config tool is for: You can do it yourself!

Pixel clocks: These are generated from the Amiga pixel clock by multiplying and dividing. As mentioned in a previous post, both multiplier and divider are whole-number values between 1 and 32 (both including). This sets limits to available pixel clocks. Since PAL and NTSC machines have a different chipset base clock, the outcome is also different, because PAL works with 28.37516MHz and NTSC works with 28.63636MHz. The config tool will display the exact middle (arithmetic average) between the two possible outcoming calues.

Example:
You're choosing 49.09MHz in the config tool. On a PAL machine, this will produce an exact pixel clock of 48.868MHz, and on an NTSC machine, it will produce 49.318MHz pixel clock.

Novacoder: If a screen looks "totally offset", then the screenmode recognition is obviously failing. For a proper bug report, please configure the OSD of the flickerfixer to "always on" and enable the OSD debug feature. This will display an additional line with information of the Amiga-screenmode such as number of lines, number of pixels and the H/V frequencies of the Amiga mode. These numbers are used for screenmode recognition. Compare them to the standard WB settings. As I wrote yesterday, there's still this mystery of Euro72 having two different screen sizes on two computers, which is not solved yet. If you have a similar effect even on one computer but with different pieces of software, we might get more hints on why this is happening. Note that the screenmode recognition is happening inside of the FPGA, and that's re-configurable. A new screenmode recognition entity can be put in a core update.

Jens