Old monitors Help

[XsamX1987]

So I'm guessing there rare but I can always keep an eye out for a monitor that will work with my Amiga 1200

what make and model am I looking for

I might get lucky looking round jumble and car boot sales

[ptyerman]

The best CRT monitor is the Commodore 1084S, it's also hard to find one for sale these days. I will never part with mine, that's for sure. There is also the Phillips CM8833 which is virtually the same monitor. You may find one on eBay or Amibay rarely, but expect to pay a premium for one, they are heavy items so with the cost of shipping on top they will be quite expensive if you find one.
Your other option is a newer flat screen monitor, some of these will sync down to the Amiga video signal, you would need a RGB to VGA converter for that though. Amigakit sells them and there is a few people on Amibay sells them too.
There is a few threads on this forum listing several LED monitors that are compatible with the Amiga, some of these can be found cheaply too.

[Adrian Browne]

I did not know that some led monitors work with amiga. Is the picture quality good then?
I'm using my old Phillips monitor from 1990 atm. It still works...

[XsamX1987]

Very nice thanks

I will have to do some research

[Daedalus]

Originally Posted by Adrian Browne

I did not know that some led monitors work with amiga. Is the picture quality good then?

Well, with a decent LCD monitor, the upscaling typically looks pretty good, but while it might be technically a better quality output, they'll never match the "feel" of a CRT. Personally I use a Dell U2410 for most of my Amigas, which accepts the native sync frequencies and give an excellent rendition. I'm happy to accept the loss of the CRT "feel" in return for the extra desk space and convenience, but if you don't have such concerns and can find a good one, a CRT is really how Amiga games are meant to be played.

Another viable alternative is a decent LCD TV with a SCART input. An RGB-SCART cable will give as good a picture quality as you can get from an Amiga, and the upscalers in such TVs are usually pretty good.

[trixster]

The dell 2001fp LCD is also a great monitor for use with amigas if you can find a Jun 2005 or earlier revision.

[idrougge]

Originally Posted by Daedalus

Well, with a decent LCD monitor, the upscaling typically looks pretty good, but while it might be technically a better quality output

I beg to differ. It's technically inferior since the signal is not displayed as is, but forcibly converted into fixed pixels using unknown algorithms. TVs tend to handle this slightly better than monitors since their job is to display TV-standard pictures, while monitors like the Dell 2001fp do it only by chance and not by design.

Originally Posted by Daedalus

they'll never match the "feel" of a CRT.

Agreed.

[ptyerman]

Originally Posted by Adrian Browne

I did not know that some led monitors work with amiga. Is the picture quality good then?
I'm using my old Phillips monitor from 1990 atm. It still works...

Ahh, just noticed I did a typo there! I meant to put LCD "not" LED. Sorry, too much beer last night!

[Daedalus]

Originally Posted by idrougge

I beg to differ. It's technically inferior since the signal is not displayed as is, but forcibly converted into fixed pixels using unknown algorithms. TVs tend to handle this slightly better than monitors since their job is to display TV-standard pictures, while monitors like the Dell 2001fp do it only by chance and not by design.

It's a matter of perception really. The Dell 2001fp isn't a particularly great panel so I wouldn't expect it to render things well - colours will be off, framerates will be funky for smooth scrolling and there will be obvious scaling artefacts. On the other hand the U2410 is built for colour accuracy and precision, and has a very good upscaler which, coupled with the high pixel density, means the scaling artefacts are practically unnoticeable - it's certainly less of a distraction than the non-linear scaling of my 1084 when scrolling vertically, so it comes down to what your perception of "quality" is.

Anyway, any decent CRT uses digital signal processing internally, so it's only old types like the 1084 which are truly analogue and truly show the image "as it is".

[trixster]

The 2001fp might be a bit funky but it does have composite in, svideo in, VGA in and DVI in, so as a one-stop shop for retro comps it works nicely. It's scrolling is smooth as well, no issue there. It's cheap as well - I got mine for about £20 each.

[idrougge]

I wouldn't say it's a pure matter of perception. Some people can't perceive colour, but that doesn't make a monitor's colour rendition good or bad.

The 2001fp is often named as the ideal monitor for Amigas, which it isn't. It's an ideal monitor for people who aren't disturbed by choppy pixels and having to readjust the picture each time the Amiga boots.

The 1084 isn't an ideal monitor either, but at least you can run DeluxePaint on it, secure that the pixels you see really are pixels and not just artifacts.

[Daedalus]

Indeed, and I agree with you on the 2001. I've used them in the past and didn't like them at all, even at their native resolution, and their pixel density is way too low to have any sort of pixel accuracy at any resolution other than their native. But not all LCDs are like that. Some have good enough scaling and high enough pixel counts that every Amiga pixel is clearly defined and not distorted, and colour accuracy leagues ahead of any 25 year old CRT. But with that you lose the natural anti-aliasing effect that a small CRT gives you, and that can be just as important to some people depending on their priorities. That's what I mean by perception - some people could subjectively judge a 1084 to give a better quality image because pixel boundaries are a little blended into each other, and the colours are muddy and warm whereas the pixel edges are clear and the colours cold on an LCD, leading them to feel that the 1084 has a better quality image. And there's nothing wrong with that at all - it's just a different measure of quality.

[idrougge]

The thing is that pixel edges aren't clear on LCDs because no LCD has been made that matches the Amiga's native resolutions.

[demolition]

Originally Posted by idrougge

The thing is that pixel edges aren't clear on LCDs because no LCD has been made that matches the Amiga's native resolutions.

A panel with 1280x1024 is close though since it will work with integer scaling for 320/640x256/512 resolutions. The aspect ratio will be a little off though since it should not be 1:1 like LCDs normally are but not many people will worry about that.

[Damion]

Try to find an old Sony 14" or 20" CRT broadcast monitor, it will be much better than a 1084, and in most respects, simply the best for playing old games. As already mentioned, the LCD and/or scandoubler route is a bit of a quagmire (not easy to find a setup that doesn't b0rk scrolling or the AGA palette, but good results are obtainable with some diligence). On the other hand, quite a bit of this just depends on your requirements and how fussy you are.

[demolition]

B&O CRT TVs are becoming very popular for retro-gaming around here since they are among the best TVs that were made in that era. A good model will have an amazing picture through RGB SCART. 5 years ago you could get them really cheap and often for free if you picked them up yourself since people were replacing them with LCDs and couldn't be bothered to carry them to the recycling yard themselves. Today they are a bit harder to find since most people have replaced them by now as analog signals were phased out some years ago, thus forcing people to upgrade. They were quite common in Denmark however since this was their home-market and many middle-class people had B&O TVs in the 90s. Not sure how common they are in the UK though.

This is only really relevant if you want a bigger screen, say 20" or larger. Sony PVM monitors are also very good, but very bulky.

[nobody]

Get a CRT TV and use rgb scart cable. The picture should be similar to 1084s. I have a 1084s too but died a long ago, the "technician" told me it was "too hard to fix", cannot find spare parts. I keep it in the store for years but was too humid and I believe the PCB should be damaged by now. Maybe one day I will try to bring it back to life

[demolition]

There are plenty other 1084S's around so you could probably find a suitable donor or yours could be used as a donor to bring someone else's 1084S to life.

[Amiga1992]

I got a TV for free off Gumtree, one of those VCR combos, and had RGB and it looked just great. It's a great option to find a CRT TV with SCART RGB on a flogging site if you want to have a CRT monitor.

Here's a search, for example, in London. Plenty of free stuff., (Dunno where you live, but change location and investigate):
https://www.gumtree.com/search?searc...ion=london&tl=

I miss my little old RGB TV VCR combo! I Wish I had not sold it before moving out of the UK

[idrougge]

Originally Posted by demolition

A panel with 1280x1024 is close though since it will work with integer scaling for 320/640x256/512 resolutions. The aspect ratio will be a little off though since it should not be 1:1 like LCDs normally are but not many people will worry about that.

First of all, the Amiga resolution is not 320x256 or any multiple thereof. There is overscan (or underscan) and a computer screen will take that into account. The resolution is more like 720x576, if we say that there even are horizontal pixels in an analogue video signal.
Furthermore, the electronics of an LCD won't even try to map those pixels uniformly to its native pixels. Why? Don't ask me.