Shadow of the Beast 1 Situation

[Revenile]

Let me open this thread and post with the following statements:

1: My intent by making this thread is purely to bring about discussion and consideration about something that came to mind just a few minutes ago as of reading earlier threads from this year discussing certain topics where the rules of the file server and the Zone came up about not uploading software/games that are still sold.

2: I'm in support of the FTP keeping this software alive, it's not like Sony is going to redistribute the Amiga Psygnosis games any time like ever, right?

3:I do not wish for this to start any fights or arguments, it's purely being brought up as a random thought my brain had just a few minutes ago as of the starting of this thread.

With these statements made, onto my thought:

As mentioned, I was browsing some older, closed threads talking about certain issues from other places and products I won't name, as they themselves aren't important, but one thing that DamienD and others brought up, was that software and games still sold are not allowed in the Zone, or on the FTP server. Also as mentioned, I'm ok with this idea, however I hate to be 'that guy' but I must point out something here...

The Amiga version of Shadow of the Beast 1 (and ONLY the first game) is currently available for sale. It is an extra that can be unlocked in the PS4 Shadow of the Beast reboot game, and it is the Amiga version. Granted it is an extra and not the primary focus, but by some standard, that counts as "Being sold" as it is part of a package that can legally be purchased right now, and has been since 2016.

I do not have access to the FTP proper as my post count is too low, however I can access the search function linked on the first page of the main thread for the FTP. Personally I don't care really if it's kept on the FTP, however I still felt like maybe it should be mentioned and at least discussed a little.

If posting a thread about this was the wrong move and I should have contacted a mod or Turran, then I apologize. I just want to see people's thoughts on this one, as I couldn't find this specific topic being brought up before in this fashion.

[Galahad/FLT]

Originally Posted by Revenile

Let me open this thread and post with the following statements:

1: My intent by making this thread is purely to bring about discussion and consideration about something that came to mind just a few minutes ago as of reading earlier threads from this year discussing certain topics where the rules of the file server and the Zone came up about not uploading software/games that are still sold.

2: I'm in support of the FTP keeping this software alive, it's not like Sony is going to redistribute the Amiga Psygnosis games any time like ever, right?

3:I do not wish for this to start any fights or arguments, it's purely being brought up as a random thought my brain had just a few minutes ago as of the starting of this thread.

With these statements made, onto my thought:

As mentioned, I was browsing some older, closed threads talking about certain issues from other places and products I won't name, as they themselves aren't important, but one thing that DamienD and others brought up, was that software and games still sold are not allowed in the Zone, or on the FTP server. Also as mentioned, I'm ok with this idea, however I hate to be 'that guy' but I must point out something here...

The Amiga version of Shadow of the Beast 1 (and ONLY the first game) is currently available for sale. It is an extra that can be unlocked in the PS4 Shadow of the Beast reboot game, and it is the Amiga version. Granted it is an extra and not the primary focus, but by some standard, that counts as "Being sold" as it is part of a package that can legally be purchased right now, and has been since 2016.

I do not have access to the FTP proper as my post count is too low, however I can access the search function linked on the first page of the main thread for the FTP. Personally I don't care really if it's kept on the FTP, however I still felt like maybe it should be mentioned and at least discussed a little.

If posting a thread about this was the wrong move and I should have contacted a mod or Turran, then I apologize. I just want to see people's thoughts on this one, as I couldn't find this specific topic being brought up before in this fashion.

Incorrect.

The PS4 version is for sale, not Amiga.

Other than Asia, it is not possible to buy a physical copy of Beast on PS4 that you could actually load on Amiga.

You can not buy the PS4 version and immediately play the Amiga version unless it is unlocked.

And when you consider HOW the Amiga version is part of the PS4 version, Sony probably don't want to draw too much attention to it and will do NOTHING about the Amiga version on websites.

[Revenile]

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT

Incorrect.

The PS4 version is for sale, not Amiga.

Other than Asia, it is not possible to buy a physical copy of Beast on PS4 that you could actually load on Amiga.

You can not buy the PS4 version and immediately play the Amiga version unless it is unlocked.

And when you consider HOW the Amiga version is part of the PS4 version, Sony probably don't want to draw too much attention to it and will do NOTHING about the Amiga version on websites.

Oh I'm sure they won't do anything, as they haven't for 4 years. I have no intent or interest to argue in favor of removing the game from the FTP at all as well. It was purely a random thought my sleep deprived brain thought of that someone somewhere could try and argue that because it is an unlockable bonus in the PS4 version (it took me... 15 minutes to unlock I think) that it being on the FTP breaks the "Still for sale" rule since there people who think like that, I've met some in my time.

Hey if there's no worry about this, then the mods are free to close the thread and let it fall into the depths of obscurity in time. It was all just something I thought to post to see what people on here thought of the topic is all.

[Galahad/FLT]

Sorry you're just categorically wrong.

The Amiga version is not for sale, the PS4 version is.

The PS4 version is still for sale, at no point when you buy it does it mention purchasing the Amiga version.

When you can copy the PS4 version to the Amiga and natively play the latter version, then you have a point, but you can't.

No one with a PS4 would choose to buy Beast if only the Amiga version was on offer.

[Revenile]

Hmm you are correct that the store page doesn't mention it. Alright then I made this thread over a dumb, incorrect thought. So, this thread has no reason to exist then I suppose.
(Edited to remove the repeated use of "alright then.")

[Pixelfill]

I see where you are coming from, but my interpretation of the "intent" of the EAB directive that "software and games still sold are not allowed in the Zone" relates purely to native Amiga items that are sold for use on the Amiga platform.

The "reasoning" IMHO was to retain those developers to continue developing for the Amiga, thereby; as the proverb goes, not biting the hand that feeds.

I'm not aware of what Galahad means by HOW Sony included the Amiga version in teh PS4 release, but I suspect it's by having subsumed independent developers into their family, and hence their historical IP, as they did with Psygnosis -> Sony Studio Liverpool, DID -> Evolution Studios -> Sony Studio North etc.

ah - I see that the Amiga version is an emulation, I wonder therefore if there is a more interesting story surrounding this, which may include questionable sourcing of the amiga emulation layer ...

[dreadnought]

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT

Sorry you're just categorically wrong.
The PS4 version is still for sale, at no point when you buy it does it mention purchasing the Amiga version.

When you can copy the PS4 version to the Amiga and natively play the latter version, then you have a point, but you can't.

No one with a PS4 would choose to buy Beast if only the Amiga version was on offer.

None of the above would matter if they wanted to do something about it. As IP holders I'm pretty sure they have all sorts of clauses to cover all sorts of situations.

The fact they are being reasonable and chose not to go on a silly crusade against sites with this rom, a la Nintendo, does not meant they couldn't.

[Galahad/FLT]

Originally Posted by dreadnought

None of the above would matter if they wanted to do something about it. As IP holders I'm pretty sure they have all sorts of clauses to cover all sorts of situations.

The fact they are being reasonable and chose not to go on a silly crusade against sites with this rom, a la Nintendo, does not meant they couldn't.

Never said they couldn't, and they are fully within their rights to do so.

But specifically, it doesn't break EAB rules, and that is what the crux of this was about.

[Galahad/FLT]

Originally Posted by Pixelfill

I see where you are coming from, but my interpretation of the "intent" of the EAB directive that "software and games still sold are not allowed in the Zone" relates purely to native Amiga items that are sold for use on the Amiga platform.

The "reasoning" IMHO was to retain those developers to continue developing for the Amiga, thereby; as the proverb goes, not biting the hand that feeds.

I'm not aware of what Galahad means by HOW Sony included the Amiga version in teh PS4 release, but I suspect it's by having subsumed independent developers into their family, and hence their historical IP, as they did with Psygnosis -> Sony Studio Liverpool, DID -> Evolution Studios -> Sony Studio North etc.

Not what I meant.

How do you think the Amiga version exists in the PS4 version?

Its emulated, and I can assure you, Heavy Spectrum nor Sony wrote their own bespoke Amiga emulation to include the Amiga version.

They took an existing emulation and included it in the PS4 version, which is a bit of a grey area, because usually they are not allowed to be used commercially unless paid for.

Do you think Sony paid anyone for the rights to include someone elses emulation code in the PS4 version?

[Pixelfill]

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT

Not what I meant.

How do you think the Amiga version exists in the PS4 version?

Its emulated, and I can assure you, Heavy Spectrum nor Sony wrote their own bespoke Amiga emulation to include the Amiga version.

They took an existing emulation and included it in the PS4 version, which is a bit of a grey area, because usually they are not allowed to be used commercially unless paid for.

Do you think Sony paid anyone for the rights to include someone elses emulation code in the PS4 version?

yeah I twigged just after posting, and made a crafty edit whilst you were replying

I guess even if Sony were aware they either expect not to be pursued, and even if they were they could deflect blame to Heavy Spectrum.

Heavy Spectrum probably assume no-one would go after Sony.

It would be interesting if Sony became embroiled in the Hyperion, Amiga Inc, Cloanto lawsuit

[Revenile]

Originally Posted by Pixelfill

It would be interesting if Sony became embroiled in the Hyperion, Amiga Inc, Cloanto lawsuit

That would definitely be a rather interesting turn of events that would require some popcorn for sure.

[ma693541]

What on earth can maybe have Sony something to do with the lawsuit? Nothing. Commodore Amiga was invented in USA and Sony in Asia.

[Galahad/FLT]

Originally Posted by ma693541

What on earth can maybe have Sony something to do with the lawsuit? Nothing. Commodore Amiga was invented in USA and Sony in Asia.

Dude, Sony owns Psygnosis, they therefore own Shadow of the Beast.

It is that simple

[Pixelfill]

Originally Posted by ma693541

What on earth can maybe have Sony something to do with the lawsuit? Nothing. Commodore Amiga was invented in USA and Sony in Asia.

If that question was directed at me.
BNE.s bye

If they have used emulation of an Amiga without a license fee paid to the trademark holders of Amiga then they might owe one (or all) parties a license fee. Those "trademark holders" don't appear averse to chasing relatively large corporations. That was how they might get embroiled.

I doubt that circumstance would ever occur, but that is how IP law works, and if pursued I'm sure an out of court settlement could be agreed - *IF* it was clear who owned the Amiga IP.

most of my previous post was tongue in cheek

bye:

Mike