AmigaOS 3.2 and beyond

[IanS]

Originally Posted by Minuous

There is also the minor matter of there being no USB slots on an Amiga to plug them into :-D Not sure what you expect us to do about that ;-)

USB has been available on Amigas for many years. There's only so many ways you can add hardware to an Amiga. Zorro, pcmcia, clock port, expansion bus etc. I doubt most people rely on the standard serial and parallel ports considering their abysmal performance. They were poor back when serial was common. Hence the proliferation of third party add on ports. But if that's what the developers think we should use, so be it. My money won't be going to Hyperion.

[Minuous]

I don't understand what your complaint is. If you want to use USB devices on an Amiga you would have to buy third party hardware. There is no way around that due to the fact that there are no USB slots on an Amiga. And any third party USB solution already comes with the necessary drivers. So what is the problem here?

[Liqourice]

Originally Posted by gulliver

If I buy an Nvidia graphics card for my Windows PC, who provides its driver? Nvidia, of course.

If you buy XXX hardware for an Amiga, its manufacturer should provide its driver.

There is nothing new here.

This is partly true. Windows has a built in TCP/IP stack, as do most other operating systems and they've had that for a very long time. I agree with the sentiment that this is a thing that should be a part of the OS. I don't think MS, Apple or the Linux developers would even consider making the TCP/IP stack an optional extra.


Drivers for specific hardware to interface with that is another thing and I agree that the manufacturer has to provide that.

[Thomas Richter]

Originally Posted by IanS

Firstly, that's only partially true. Windows will use a standard VESA driver for any you you plug in. Nvidia provide better drivers for access to particular features. Secondly, when I plug in a USB memory stick or hdd on my PCs, they are automatically recognised by the OS. I do not need to install anything. Nor do I worry about finding a tcpip stack.

This is a problem of a lack of standardization on the Amiga market. On PC platforms, you have PCIe, and a generic layer on top of it that allows you to access any storage device on the bus. There is a generic video layer, and a general acceptance how video devices should work. For each of the interface problems, there is an organization that keeps care of it, and supervises its development - in worst case it is Microsoft pushing vendors into a common architecture.



On the Amiga, we do not even have a standardized way of how to add more capable graphics to the system. As soon as you try to standardize something, trolls come all along and tell you that "you want to monopolize the market".


So, that is the problem. Either, the userbase has to accept a common solution for an interface problem, meaning that some existing solutions have to die out, and a common, centralized development for a particular interface has to be established, or you have to live with diverging implementations and implementation and incompatibility problems.



Whenever I try to put up the first solution as "better for the user", I hear the voices of "open source the Os".



Well, I afraid it is really that: Either do the latter, and live with all the complications of driver installation, or accept one standard per interface and don't complain if competing solutions have to die out.


I know what my choice is, but whenever I put it forward, I hear complains.

[AC/DC HACKER!]

Originally Posted by Minuous

There is also the minor matter of there being no USB slots on an Amiga to plug them into :-D Not sure what you expect us to do about that ;-)

Expanding the Amiga is the solution. Buy hardware. At first small niches systems become bigger. Depends on demand. Buy an X-Surf 100, and you could add-on USB.. As an example. Solved.


Many Amiga grumps don't look at the possibilities that Are.

[Tekk]

So what is the status of AmigaOS 3.2 anyway... is there a roadmap, releasedate?

[gulliver]

Originally Posted by Tekk

So what is the status of AmigaOS 3.2 anyway... is there a roadmap, releasedate?

Everything is still going according to plan.

http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=...&postcount=474

[seb132]

Just a quick question because I have followed this thread partially (too excited, lol), but will there be some new physical ROMs with 3.2 release?
Or will 3.1.4 ROMs will work?
Reason is I’m thinking about spending some $$ to upgrade all my Amigas into the new OS so just wondering if I should “just wait a little” for the big stuff, haha.
I’m talking over 15 machines...

[gulliver]

Originally Posted by seb132

Just a quick question because I have followed this thread partially (too excited, lol), but will there be some new physical ROMs with 3.2 release?
Or will 3.1.4 ROMs will work?
Reason is I’m thinking about spending some $$ to upgrade all my Amigas into the new OS so just wondering if I should “just wait a little” for the big stuff, haha.
I’m talking over 15 machines...

Over 15 machines

For AmigaOS 3.2, 3.1.4 ROMs will work but there will be new ROMs too.
My advice is always to buy what it is available and don't speculate too much on the future if you want to use your 15 machines right now.

If this year 2020 has taught me something, was surely not to bank on the future, because there is always a chance something unexpected might happen.

[seb132]

Thanks.
That makes sense. Not overly surprised by your answer but thanks anyway.

Don’t be shocked. 15 is a low figure.

[utri007]

Originally Posted by seb132

Just a quick question because I have followed this thread partially (too excited, lol), but will there be some new physical ROMs with 3.2 release?
Or will 3.1.4 ROMs will work?
Reason is I’m thinking about spending some $$ to upgrade all my Amigas into the new OS so just wondering if I should “just wait a little” for the big stuff, haha.
I’m talking over 15 machines...

Word of warning. These new roms doesn't have all the libraries wich old kickstarts had. So at least old boot floppies doesn't work.

Wich makes me wonder. I woun't ever install OS3.2 (or 3.1.4) to my Amigas, they cause more hasle than benefits, at least for me, but there was some very usefull components, like cd filesystem, scsi.device, etc. what else I could use without a kickstart and os installtion?

I have bought OS3.1.4 for a A500 and A1200

[Thomas Richter]

Originally Posted by utri007

Word of warning. These new roms doesn't have all the libraries wich old kickstarts had. So at least old boot floppies doesn't work.

Of course do old boot floppies work. Where did you this get from?

Originally Posted by utri007

what else I could use without a kickstart and os installtion?

Next to nothing. The Os components (mostly) depend on the new Os components.

[utri007]

Originally Posted by Thomas Richter

Of course do old boot floppies work. Where did you this get from?

Old boot floppies needs to have workbench.library (icon.library?)available some where. If not, they doesn't work.

[Thomas Richter]

Which old floppies please? Most old boot floppies do not need any of the two. Actually, most old boot floppies do not even use the Os.

But even if so, the Os is smart enough to look for it at the harddisk, or let you insert a disk with the library on it.

So, I propose you'd let me know which particular boot floppy that is.

[utri007]

Originally Posted by Thomas Richter

Which old floppies please? Most old boot floppies do not need any of the two. Actually, most old boot floppies do not even use the Os.

But even if so, the Os is smart enough to look for it at the harddisk, or let you insert a disk with the library on it.

So, I propose you'd let me know which particular boot floppy that is.

Some apps load Workbench and after that there should be a icon to start app. These kind of apps are Deluxe paint and Deluxe music etc. If there is a partial hard disk failure, lets say system partition is failed, it might be difficult to boot OS, without a special os3.1.4 boot floppy.

A1200 support 1mb rom wich should be option, even if modules are soft kicked to ram.

[Thomas Richter]

Originally Posted by utri007

Some apps load Workbench and after that there should be a icon to start app. These kind of apps are Deluxe paint and Deluxe music etc. If there is a partial hard disk failure, lets say system partition is failed, it might be difficult to boot OS, without a special os3.1.4 boot floppy.

You don't need a special boot floppy for that - first, just fix the harddisk - but even then - you only need to insert a floppy with the libraries in them. You only need a floppy with the libraries on it, insert it, and you are good.



Thus, please do not make problems where there are none.

Originally Posted by utri007

A1200 support 1mb rom wich should be option, even if modules are soft kicked to ram.

And in how far does that help with the A500? And for the A1200, there is a harddisk already installed...

[IanS]

Originally Posted by Minuous

I don't understand what your complaint is. If you want to use USB devices on an Amiga you would have to buy third party hardware. There is no way around that due to the fact that there are no USB slots on an Amiga. And any third party USB solution already comes with the necessary drivers. So what is the problem here?

My point is that many of the things we take for granted on other OSs, are missing from Amiga OS. As Thomas said, much is down to a lack of standardisation for hardware. I agree with him, there is a complete lack of consensus in the Amiga community. Rather than agree on one thing, we spend 20 years arguing about it and never getting anywhere.

[asymetrix]

@thread

For Beyond OS, it needs a rewrite - hope work has started on this.
Question: would Fortran be good to be able to quickly bootstrap new cpus ? (automated build system).
I would love to see video streams of the attempts to create up to date bootrap software, its facinating.

Hardware needs standardizing :

I would welcome an off the shelf 2GHZ cpu simulating 68k on a card.
This with an Amiga chipset on an FPGA, enhanced over time.

Prefer open source classic II chipset.

Tiny board, aim to have cpu + fpga , optional wifi + bluetooth 5. ~ $100

Enough power for compiling GCC native.

The hardware and software to evolve and enhance over time, one module at at time.

A central patreon master to collect funds to assist development.

I dont mind API changes, over time compatibilities would be fixed as long as it feels AmigaOS.

Just some thoughts ...

[mahen]

[EDIT] : OOPS, sorry for the off-topic ! But maybe we can open another thread to discourse on the future of the Amiga. How to join efforts between all those disjointed efforts ?

@asymetrix : actually, we've been through all this, almost 20 years ago. Now the problem is (IMHO), there is no "bridge" between the Classic (incl. FPGAs) and the "NG" (MorphOS, OS4, AROS).

Almost 20 years ago, when the MorphOS team rewrote AmigaOS for the PPC it was just supposed to be a first step (the QBox was there to get rid eventually of the AmigaOS intrisic limitations. Now we have 3 NG systems, none of which is modern by today's standards. (but they are much fun) It's still impressive to see the new MorphOS versions release notes... But well, that's not what they had envisioned.

Anyway So many divisions for such a small community. At least, I have the feeling people now enjoy themselves without being too upset with the politics. That's my case. I kinda gave up on the MorphOS / Amiga NG stuff more than 15 years ago, but have more pleasure than ever following the A500/1200 scene (do many fabulous stuff coming !).


Also, I'm so glad to hear about Amiga OS 3.1.4/3.2. It's a *very* welcome upgrade to keep our Amigas, emulated Amigas and FPGA recreated / improved Amigas running.

But can we go further than this ? Where do we want to be ? My dream would be : a hybrid platform running a "NG" Amiga OS (like MorphOS + 1) + simulating the Amiga custom chips in a very accurate way (the FPGA are great for that : no input lag, perfect display timings). But it would still be retro computing. And actually, it's a *miracle* to see so much stuff coming. If we didn't manage to "transition" properly 20 years ago, I think we never will. But is that a problem ?

I'm not sure actually. Everyone has his/her own definition of what the Amiga is.

[asymetrix]

@torturedutopian

Im suggesting a proper rewrite. Hardware rewrite + software rewrite.

We are hindered by OS design, cpu, memory, hardware.

Everyone loves 68k assembler - so the cpu choice has to be same.
People like chipset graphics in asm, so keep the chipset - but in FPGA.

A simple API for games that programmers can use, while hiding the hardware details for compatibility.

A thin layer of AROS/Linux with peoples choice of CORE OS + GUI .(classic or NG) or NEW mobile friendly UI.
But you need the power in the cpu to do this.
If the system is Amiga like, it should be fine.