Rastan port for A500 1MB (demo available)

[malko]

Originally Posted by earok

basementApe has been working on a really promising looking port of Rastan, the alpha demo for A500 1MB is now available to download and play.



Links:

itch: https://basementape.itch.io/rastan-amiga-500
IRN: https://www.indieretronews.com/2023/...a-500-and.html

Saberman:

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Wow !

[TCD]

Originally Posted by saimon69

BasementApe has problem with EAB account authentication right now, so gave me this text to post here:

If you could PM me what kind of issue he has I can forward it so that it hopefully can be resolved.

[d4rk3lf]

Originally Posted by TCD

If you could PM me what kind of issue he has I can forward it so that it hopefully can be resolved.

He was banned because not making parallax in his game.

[jotd]

lol and no copper skies. A true crime.

[Mixel]

Originally Posted by Cris1997XX

Since he intends to release the source code, hopefully someone will make an improved AGA version too

He does? I haven’t read that anywhere? Haha.

[Cris1997XX]

Originally Posted by Mixel

He does? I haven’t read that anywhere? Haha.

Well...he talked about it on Discord, in the Commodore Amiga server

[Bren McGuire]

you clearly do not understand what i say and put words in my mouth that i did not say

i agree the colors on the arcade port are awful i never said have more colors or parallax scrolling i NEVER said that i said "add detail to graphics"

the vast flat colors on this game make it look empty and dead details like shapes of rocks or other stuff can add a lot of life to the graphics without changing how the game works one bit. but tit does require extra time andd effort put forward. i dont think there is any technical limitation to "work more on graphics" it just seems they do not want to work more on the graphics.

and i know this person can do so much better because the sprites look amazing and also thats what makes the backgrounds look so dead the sprites are full of rich detail and look gorgeous

i also never said i wanted a 1:1 port saimon69 so youre talking a load of tosh

Originally Posted by d4rk3lf

Besides, you can try your own port with millions parallaxes, and colors that would bring headache to anyone with a little bit of taste for colors.
Cooper can add depth.

[Retro1234]

Guys doing great

[jotd]

Level design is what makes this game great

[Tsak]

Originally Posted by Bren McGuire

i agree the colors on the arcade port are awful i never said have more colors or parallax scrolling i NEVER said that i said "add detail to graphics"

the vast flat colors on this game make it look empty and dead details like shapes of rocks or other stuff can add a lot of life to the graphics without changing how the game works one bit. but tit does require extra time andd effort put forward. i dont think there is any technical limitation to "work more on graphics" it just seems they do not want to work more on the graphics.

Afaik, the sole reason for the backgrounds not being overly detailed or varied in this project is RAM. The original indeed has excellent variation with loads of different mountains and rocks in the back, plus these iconic huge statues. However all these cost a ton of RAM to include and the more complex these are, the more RAM is needed, simply because of the tile variations required to make these fit seamlessly. So to be able to fit all enemies, character moves and the foreground gfx (plus music and sfx) he simply had to compromise the backs one way or the other.

Now having said that I know he's actively working on this issue, especially after we managed to save quite a few kb from reworking/polishing the music (I gave some help in that regard).
So -hopefully- we'll see more background variation moving forwards.

[Bren McGuire]

again words are being put in my mouth i never said to add that kinda stuff i said work on what is already there give it more detail. like those flat areas on the ground or the sky. instead of basing them on a flat color square give the square some texture or something

i dont think i am talking crazy here the sprites have so much detail that the flat backgrounds make them feel out of place

Originally Posted by Tsak

Afaik, the sole reason for the backgrounds not being overly detailed or varied in this project is RAM. The original indeed has excellent variation with loads of different mountains and rocks in the back, plus these iconic huge statues. However all these cost a ton of RAM to include and the more complex these are, the more RAM is needed

[Cris1997XX]

Originally Posted by Bren McGuire

again words are being put in my mouth i never said to add that kinda stuff i said work on what is already there give it more detail. like those flat areas on the ground or the sky. instead of basing them on a flat color square give the square some texture or something

i dont think i am talking crazy here the sprites have so much detail that the flat backgrounds make them feel out of place

So he should downgrade the sprites just to make it look less "out of place"? What did I even read...

[donnie]

There has been alot of great games in the making lately.. but this game has some of the best sprite work of any current or old amiga game.

Basement ape is a real talent if their ever was one.

16 colors to boot. really Impressive.

The original character art in rastan was good, everything else in rastan was really early pixel art.

The amiga version is absolutely top notch stuff.

This looks better than the original arcade.



Look at it! fucking amazing.

[Bren McGuire]

do you even read yourself how could anyone make that conclusion maybe you dont know what you read i think

Originally Posted by Cris1997XX

So he should downgrade the sprites just to make it look less "out of place"? What did I even read...

[Tsak]

Originally Posted by Bren McGuire

again words are being put in my mouth i never said to add that kinda stuff i said work on what is already there give it more detail. like those flat areas on the ground or the sky. instead of basing them on a flat color square give the square some texture or something

i dont think i am talking crazy here the sprites have so much detail that the flat backgrounds make them feel out of place

You said (and I quote your exact words) "I dont think there is any technical limitation to "work more on graphics" it just seems they do not want to work more on the graphics". So all I did is I gave you exactly technical reasons for the backs looking as they do and why this is not the case of the creator simply 'refusing to work further on them'. Let me try one more time to explain better:

Adding more details to backgrounds (vs f.e. using a flat color) requires more RAM. Why? Because in the flat color's case you only need a single tile to fill large areas, whereas if you add even a single pixel, repeating patterns start to emerge. And to make these patterns look seamless (and not painful to look at), you need a lot more tiles. Which means more RAM. Got it now?

And if this is not a technical reason enough for you, here's another one: One characteristic of making good backgrounds is that they need not to obscure the player and enemies or getting mixed with the foreground gfx. In the case of the arcade , this is easy to do cause all it needs is for the backs to use their own palette and color ramps. However in this case the game uses a single 16 color palette, which means that available colors for the backs are severely limited. So adding more detail in this case is problematic cause when you start using common and brighter colors, not only then you risk losing depth (backs need to be dim and desaturated), but also start mixing with the foreground.

[demether]

Originally Posted by jotd

Level design is what makes this game great

The music is also great

[Bren McGuire]

no mate you only just explained it now and in a rather awful tone that isnt appreciated
i understand now why the game backgrounds look like absolute garbage
also this is done with a game engine which absolutely hinders the capability the amiga is not being used to the max here. 1MB is plenty and there are many Amiga games that have nice background graphics and run on 1MB

Originally Posted by Tsak

So all I did is I gave you exactly technical reasons for the backs looking as they do and why this is not the case of the creator simply 'refusing to work further on them'. Let me try one more time to explain better:

Adding more details to backgrounds (vs f.e. using a flat color) requires more RAM. Why? Because in the flat color's case you only need a single tile to fill large areas, whereas if you add even a single pixel, repeating patterns start to emerge. And to make these patterns look seamless (and not painful to look at), you need a lot more tiles. Which means more RAM. Got it now?

[jotd]

I understand your frustration about using an engine, but the main reason why people use engines for that kind of game is probably the 8 way scrolling that Scorpion handles so well.

Also, it allows people without asm/C programming skills to create games, and those people are often good at graphics. Maybe once it's done you can ask for the assets and try a non-scorpion version (I'd like to see a ECS version of Xevious, so many people claimed that it would be smooth on A500 and with good colors).

I wouldn't use an engine, but if I had to I'd chose Scorpion. Also I don't think I could take on a 8-way tiled scrolling game in assembly on my spare time. The only one that pulled that out recently (and completed the game!) was Muzza with Turrican 2 AGA.

[Tsak]

Originally Posted by Bren McGuire

no mate you only just explained it now and in a rather awful tone that isnt appreciated

Well, my reply was meant to be in a friendly (and hopefully informative) tone. If you have interpreted it in a different way, you have my sincere apologies
Look, I think this has escalated for no good reason. You've gone from this:

Originally Posted by Bren McGuire

i understand the limitations of Amiga and this is a great port but I think the graphics could be worked on a bit more they feel a little lifeless, not the characters but the backgrounds for example the really vast plain color areas like the sky and the dark color under the ground

to this:

Originally Posted by Bren McGuire

i understand now why the game backgrounds look like absolute garbage

If you ask me, you made a perfectly good argument in your very first reply. I think none disagrees that the backgrounds could look even better. Just keep in mind that the game is WIP and that stuff like that are actively worked on.

[saimon69]

By the way, i did look at the best of the bunch of ports, the Apple IIgs version; no parallax,ok, but the background in the latter levels brings some confusion
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