OpenC64MegaDrivePadAdapter can't get 2nd firebutton working

[fryguy]

I bought an OpenC64MegaDrivePadAdapter on Tradera (swedish part of ebay). The adapter is rev5. I tried it with WHDLoad-installed Battle Squadron which says it should be able to autodetect controller with a certain tooltype (CUSTOM3=1 iirc), but I can't get the second fire to work.

I also tried it with JoyPortTest and joytest_CP from Aminet but they didn't show when pressing the second fire button either.

First I thought maybe it was the C-button on the controller that didn't work but then I set it as fire 1 and then also as up and those worked fine.

Do I need some special library to make it work?
I do have lowlevel.library (47.1) (running AOS 3.2.1)

(The picture is not of my adapter, the switches on mine is set to down (amiga), up (B) , down (C)

[Daedalus]

No, you don't need a special library. If it's not reading the 2nd button (and another 2-button controller e.g. a mouse plugged in there does work), then it's likely the pad+adaptor combo simply isn't pulling pin 9 low enough.

[fryguy]

Thanks for the info, then I'll try another adapter/pad.

[fryguy]

Found the issue, the switch to select between C64/Amiga only had one leg soldered, soldered the other two and now fire 2 works as well.

[SquawkBox]

I have been using the exact same adapter since a few months and chances are you will be disappointed after reading the following tidbits, but that's how it is IMHO : Only a handful of games have their second fire button routine triggered with it, also if you're not absolutely sure such modification is safe, I'd like to suggest reverting the soldering.

I have listed somewhere those few games (e.q. Snow Bros., or earok version of UN Squadron), but basically SMS (Master System) pads are the ones to get to test second fire button effectiveness. These days, folks adamant about using second fire button (or third etc.) on their real Amiga's are supposed to buy or build a custom / modern joypad / joystick. Browse the news sections a bit, some joysticks have actually reached completion these days after a fundraising campaign. If you have the dough, by all means, preorder one .

Still, despite these limitations, I enjoy using my 3rd party Mega Drive joypad on my A500 e.q. for racing games in which "C" button can be mapped to accelerate through the third switch. Take it for what it is, the OpenC64MegaDrivePadAdapter won't help much in reaching the goal of "enabling" second fire button for each and every game that supports it, it was conceptualized to offer protection against current overload when one wished to plug in a MD controller, or to use C button in games (arcade racing mostly) instead of up to accelerate. Second fire button only works by accident with such setup, even with the switches set as you described.

[fryguy]

Yes maybe there are not a lot of games supporting 2nd fire but there are some whdload patches that supports it I believe. For now I only tried it with Battle Squadron.

[SquawkBox]

For the time being, let's stick to achieving use of Mega Drive joypads along with that adapter of yours, when it comes to games played the regular way. As I said, it is rather unlikely the OpenC64MegaDrivePadAdapter was made to support further soldering (except if you had a bad unit to begin with). I guess yours is good for the scrap heap now .

[Nightshft]

Isn't it a bit bold to say it is broken just because he worked on it, without knowing how it turned out exactly?

Either he fixed it or not. And when it didn't work before, but works now, I'd say he fixed it.

The hardware property "support further soldering" simply does not exist.
On some of my 2 button joysticks Button 2 did not work correctly. Until I found the culprit, and did a small hardware correction. Now they work fine.

Fryguy to be sure you can use a multimeter and check the Joystick/Adapter. The only thing which could really damage your machine would be a short between pin 8 (+5V) and pin 9 (gnd). There should be no connection between +5v and any of the other pins, but I don't think it would fry something.
Push all directions and buttons of course when measuring.

Did you see the "Games supporting 2 fire buttons" thread? There are many, including some of new games.
In Golden Axe you can trigger Magic with the 2nd button. And the smartbomb in Hybris (not sure if only in the WhdLoad version).
In Devils Temple you can gracefully punch your opponent.

[fryguy]

Originally Posted by Nightshft

Isn't it a bit bold to say it is broken just because he worked on it, without knowing how it turned out exactly?

Either he fixed it or not. And when it didn't work before, but works now, I'd say he fixed it.

The hardware property "support further soldering" simply does not exist.
On some of my 2 button joysticks Button 2 did not work correctly. Until I found the culprit, and did a small hardware correction. Now they work fine.

Fryguy to be sure you can use a multimeter and check the Joystick/Adapter. The only thing which could really damage your machine would be a short between pin 8 (+5V) and pin 9 (gnd). There should be no connection between +5v and any of the other pins, but I don't think it would fry something.
Push all directions and buttons of course when measuring.

Did you see the "Games supporting 2 fire buttons" thread? There are many, including some of new games.
In Golden Axe you can trigger Magic with the 2nd button. And the smartbomb in Hybris (not sure if only in the WhdLoad version).
In Devils Temple you can gracefully punch your opponent.

I think it should be fine, the seller told me "oops, not good" when I told him he missed soldering the C64/Amiga-switch, but I can measure it just in case.

Yes, I did saw that Games supporting 2 fire buttons-thread
Gonna check out some more games during christmas. Rygar also supports (or more like, requires) two buttons IIRC.

[SquawkBox]

Said adapter has very limited second button support, using another (Mega Drive presumably, hence the name OpenC64MegaDrivePadAdapter ) joypad won't help much. Now you guys mention games that don't support 2nd fire button natively (except Rygar), but have been patched to do so, meaning I cannot test those versions with the adapter since I only have an A500 at my disposal. At the risk of repeating myself, 2nd button support is not its strong point (because of how MD pad is wired at the electrical level, I am no specialist but I have researched the subject somehow) so I doubt you will end up with many more games for which 2nd fire button will activate just fine (all other things being equal).

Now, to test whether something is broken or not concerning this adapter ability to selectively convey 2nd fire button signal, one doesn't need WHDLoad or stuff, load disk version of Snow Bros., set 2 button mode in options (Mega), and enjoy jumping with 2nd fire button, else something is amiss.

I would guess no soldering would allow this adapter to support 2nd fire button with games the way e.q. a CD32 or an arcadeR pad / stick does. Of course, if your unit was broken in the first place, attempting to fix it is the right thing to do.

[Daedalus]

That adaptor uses diodes on the signal lines, which is a very good thing for the C64 as it prevents the issues that cause damage to the C64's CIA. But the diodes mean the signals aren't as low as they should be. The directions and fire 1 signals aren't bothered because those inputs are digital and have thresholds that allow for a certain level to trigger them. Fire 2 is an analogue input however, even when used in a digital fashion, and it seems some A1200s are more sensitive to signals that aren't *quite* low enough.

A direct bypass of the diode used for pin 9 should improve things in this case.

[Nightshft]

Agree, pin 9 needs to be low enough.

A few weeks ago I did some tests and what really surprised me is that when pin 9 is not low enough, some software recognizes button 2 and some software does NOT, depending on the routine/method used.

It did cost me hours because I was searching for the cause of some button 2 problems but didn't expect that behaviour.

I used a Joytester I wrote with Blitz. And it turned out that Blitz (RIZoneJoy library) is more tolerant and also recognizes button 2 having medium resistance.

While some games I tested (Devils Temple, CelticHeart, TrapRunner) needed very low level/resistance.
Tested it on A1200, A600 and a few tests on A500 and the behaviour seems to be the same on all three machines.

[SquawkBox]

@fryguy
CUSTOM3=1 tooltype in Battle Squadron allows for a better detection of controllers in the broad sense apparently, it's not supposed to improve 2nd fire button support. In other words, if you can move your ship, it means your joypad is detected despite the adapter presence, no need to set up CUSTOM3=1.
If you want a more universal (and affordable) 2nd fire button support, go for a Master System pad or stick. I mean don't get your hopes too high, it's unlikely someone will come up with a new version of the adapter anytime soon (it would require new schematics, a higher price tag etc.).