Apidya WHDLoad

[Graham Humphrey]

I suspect this is another 040 problem (like Zool 2 and some others) but I thought I'd make sure anyway.

I do get some ridiculous slowdown at times on my 040, usually when there are loads of enemies on screen. Maybe my mind is playing tricks on me but I can't remember this happening on my 030, or on my old A500+ when I played it.

So, even though I suspect this may be the case, just to make sure: is this another one of those problems with 040s where the chip RAM access is slow? A shame if it is, though it's not as severe as it is in other games so it's still playable.

[killergorilla]

Well I can't really comment on experience with an 040, but with my 030 everything runs perfectly fine, so yes it may be a specific 040 issue.

I know that's not a lot of help, but at least it means it's not dodgy files you're using

[Graham Humphrey]

Well as I got it from your packs I would hope not

[laser]

Originally Posted by Graham Humphrey

I suspect this is another 040 problem (like Zool 2 and some others) but I thought I'd make sure anyway.

I do get some ridiculous slowdown at times on my 040, usually when there are loads of enemies on screen. Maybe my mind is playing tricks on me but I can't remember this happening on my 030, or on my old A500+ when I played it.

So, even though I suspect this may be the case, just to make sure: is this another one of those problems with 040s where the chip RAM access is slow? A shame if it is, though it's not as severe as it is in other games so it's still playable.

that's a normal issue on certain games and does is not only a issue on the Amiga'games

when there are lot of activity on the screen ....framerate goes down because hardware power reach the limit

you can also see that slowdowns on many space ships shooters in Mame emulation and even on the real arcades machines

for example I remember severe slowdowns on games like Gaplus,Rtype,Phoenix and Galaxians...of course when the screen is full of activity and full of space ships and shoots

[musashi5150]

Thanks for the input, but I believe Graham that it's probably another 040 problem.

[laser]

Originally Posted by musashi5150

Thanks for the input, but I believe Graham that it's probably another 040 problem.

that's not a 040 problem..that's an issue of the amiga'chips reaching to the limit..that's normal...and it will happen on any cpu

[BippyM]

laser you're wrong matey

[killergorilla]

Bip is right, that laser is wrong, it definitely does not slow down at all on my A1200 030

[Retro-Nerd]

Yep, Kaiko were decent programmers. The game works without slowdowns, even on a Amiga 500.

[laser]

I think that you guys are so unexperienced

I know about slowdown on games when activity is high on screen since I was at school and played real arcade games..specially on space ships games

maybe guys you are so youngs and never played at real arcades
or maybe yes but guys .....you are so vague

Apydia works perfect on any cpu I tested ...there are slowdowns sometimes when there are much activity on the screen that's normal and not only apydia suffer from that..tons of games...even new games


"Look at the world and pay attention" Saddam Hussein

[Retro-Nerd]

No comment. Even if there are mini slowdowns (2-player mode), you wouldn't noticed them while you play it. This game is well programmend. There are other shooter with huge slowdowns, but not Apidya. The WHDLoad problem is related to something else.

[BippyM]

laser you are really starting to get on my nerves with this "I know it all, you are all wrong" attitude

Cut it out please. I have been an Amiga user since 1990 and I know enough about the Amiga to know that apidya doesn't slowdown esp on processors >000/>020!

And let's face it there are members on here who know more than both of us combined, so please let the experts have their say (The guys who write games etc!!)

[rgen]

@laser

A quotation from http://www.whdload.de/docs/en/cache.html

Cachebility of Chip-Memory
The cachebility can not only set by the CPU itself (CACR) and the MMU setup but also by external hardware. The CPU is signaling on the bus if it tries to cache a access. And an external hardware can signal the CPU (after an address has been put on the address bus during an memory access) that an access must not be cached.
The mechanism that hardware signals the CPU that memory is not cacheable or not is used on all (AFAIK) Amigas and CPU-Boards containing CPU's >= 68030 (because they have a data cache). Affected is the whole Chip-Memory and IO-Space (Cia/Custom/RTC) which must not be cached by the data cache. This is neccessary to avoid cache inconsistenies, for example because DMA activity.
The reaction of the CPU on a hardware reject of a cacheable access varies on the different CPU's. On the 68030 there is no impact on performance of the access, the data will simply not cached. On the 68040 read accesses will performed in full speed but write accesses (CopyBack) will be canceled and restarted without cachebility which results in around 5 times (depends on hardware and CPU speed) slower access compared to an noncacheable access. On the 68060 read and write accesses will be canceled and restarted. Read accesses will be around 3 times slower and write accesses around 5 times.

[laser]

I forgot to say that even my granny knows about that normal slowdowns on shooters and others games.......

[BippyM]

@laser YAWN.. APIDYA DOES NOT SLOWDOWN!

SLOWDOWN IS THE RESULT OF A MACHINE TRYING TO DO MORE THAN IT IS CAPABLE OF. A GOOD PROGRAMMER WONT HAVE A MACHINE DOING MORE THAN CAPABLE< HENCE NO SLOWDOWN!

[pbareges]

Originally Posted by rgen

@laser

A quotation from http://www.whdload.de/docs/en/cache.html

Cachebility of Chip-Memory
The cachebility can not only set by the CPU itself (CACR) and the MMU setup but also by external hardware. The CPU is signaling on the bus if it tries to cache a access. And an external hardware can signal the CPU (after an address has been put on the address bus during an memory access) that an access must not be cached.
The mechanism that hardware signals the CPU that memory is not cacheable or not is used on all (AFAIK) Amigas and CPU-Boards containing CPU's >= 68030 (because they have a data cache). Affected is the whole Chip-Memory and IO-Space (Cia/Custom/RTC) which must not be cached by the data cache. This is neccessary to avoid cache inconsistenies, for example because DMA activity.
The reaction of the CPU on a hardware reject of a cacheable access varies on the different CPU's. On the 68030 there is no impact on performance of the access, the data will simply not cached. On the 68040 read accesses will performed in full speed but write accesses (CopyBack) will be canceled and restarted without cachebility which results in around 5 times (depends on hardware and CPU speed) slower access compared to an noncacheable access. On the 68060 read and write accesses will be canceled and restarted. Read accesses will be around 3 times slower and write accesses around 5 times.

i'm not an expert at all, but disabling all caches (with the nocache option for instance) shouldn't solve this kind of issue?

[laser]

Originally Posted by bippym

laser you are really starting to get on my nerves with this "I know it all, you are all wrong" attitude

Cut it out please. I have been an Amiga user since 1990 and I know enough about the Amiga to know that apidya doesn't slowdown esp on processors >000/>020!

And let's face it there are members on here who know more than both of us combined, so please let the experts have their say (The guys who write games etc!!)

I played apydia to the end using a trainer the 1st time on an A500 and the game slowdown sometimes
You didn't notice it because you are so vague

[BippyM]

Errr.... no and this thread isn't with regards to an a500 is it.. It's about an 040 equipped machine!

Please stop with this "know it all" attitude as it really is annoying!

[Graham Humphrey]

Originally Posted by pbareges

i'm not an expert at all, but disabling all caches (with the nocache option for instance) shouldn't solve this kind of issue?

Not with Apidya it doesn't, or with Zool 2, or with any games that's affected by this I'd imagine.

[Retro-Nerd]

Originally Posted by laser

I played apydia to the end using a trainer the 1st time on an A500 and the game slowdown sometimes
You didn't notice it because you are so vague

But Graham doesn't meant "normal" shooter slowdowns. It looks, you can't keep this apart.

I saw only some slowdowns in the 2-player mode.