Sonix...Once again.

Widriksen · 17 May 2006, 17:52

Hi all.

I'm faily new here, but have been an Amiga user since the very first days.
I actually still have my Amiga 1000, the very first one to hit the sales here in denmark, and my Amiga 2000.

It's been a while since i've used them, so i'm not sure if they even work any more. I've just reinstalled the WinUAE, go a hold of the Kickstart roms i need, and am now ready to start using my amiga again. Mostly for some old time gameing fun, but also to revive my first real passion for music....Sonix.

I learned everything i know today about music thanks to this awesome program, with a built in synth that i have yet to se recreated in ANY program, on ANY platform since. If someone nows of a program that looks and works like sonix on the PC please do tell!!.

I have the sonix versions 1.0 up to 1.3 on disk......for my AMIGA. Instead of me trying to find the disks in my boxes, trying to transfer them to ADF format, i was hopping that someone would be so kind as to tell me were i can find them. I have been all over the internet now, and despite the fact that the AMIGA for all purposes and intents is dead and gone, some people just won't let go of there programs.

Can some one help me out here? Please? A link? something???

PLEASE????

Widriksen · 18 May 2006, 16:30

Never mind guys! I found it here: http://www.deadwoodinc.net/amigan/amiga/

There are some other tools and stuff there that some of you might find usefull?!..

Doc Mindie · 28 May 2006, 01:50

I've tried the version there.... I can't make the Sonix ADF's to work neither under 1.3 nor 3.1 WinUAE configs. the "data" files and the "instruments" images. Tried booting from Sonix itself, or inserted through WB, nothing good happens

FromWithin · 28 May 2006, 07:21

Works for me with Kickstart 1.3, booting from the disk image.

And Widriksen, I know exactly what you mean about Sonix creating sounds that cannot be created elsewhere. Sonix was amazing for its time. It actually had real synthesis. A proper low-pass filter in an Amiga music program was not seen until many, many years after sonix. The thing that makes Sonix interesting, however, is the "Phase" function. I've been experimenting with it, and can't quite work out what it's doing. I'm sure that it's something pretty simple, but it's hard to determine exactly what. If I keep playing with it and sample the output, I'll eventually work it out.

FromWithin · 28 May 2006, 08:04

Well I've just worked it out...there seem to be two different operations in the Phase function. The first is when the depth is set to 0. In this case, the waveform is copied, and the copy is rotated and added back onto the original. The constant rotation of the copy causes the modulation. By rotated, I mean that the whole waveform is shifted left or right (can't tell), and the bit of data that pops off the end is put back on the other side,

When the depth is set above 0, a different function is used. The waveform is split into two halves and each half is compressed or expanded and back again over time. So the left half of the wave is slowly (depending on the speed parameter) stretched over to the right, squashing the right half. When the left half has filled the whole waveform, it reverses, with the left half expanding and the right half squashing. And so on.

One of the other things that makes it interesting is that the Sonix waveforms are very, very low resolution. So if you have a bitty waveform (with random bits everywhere) and use the phase function, then as the waveform modulates, various bits keep getting cut out and popped back in at different times, giving it that weird dirty metallic sound. This is because when one side of the waveform is squashed, there is no interpolation to smooth it out. Imagine it like when you zoom slowly into a sample in a sample editor and see peaks appearing and disappearing in different places. Same sort of thing.

So that's why you've not been able to recreate it anywhere else. It's time-based synthesis. Pretty much everything else works on frequency-based synthesis. Coincidentally enough, I've written a time-based waveform synthesizer that I can easily add Sonix's Phase function into. Unfortunately, it's just code so is barely even usable by me in music (i.e. no VST plugin or whatever).

redblade · 29 May 2006, 00:11

Is sonix the one with Jays song?

quahappy · 29 May 2006, 09:48

That's right redblade. Remember that one and the other, Your the Voice (John Farnham) being played in Sonix at my local games shop. Yet another reason that persuaded me to buy the Amiga 500.

Created many a song on Sonix and even went as far as linking it up to a Yamaha keyboard giving me 8 channels to play with. I recorded quite a few onto cassette (4-channel songs)..... and boy, listening to them recently.....are they shite!

Such a shame, as I had at least 20 Sonix Instruments disks all from 17 Bit Software and.... well you know what's coming..... three years ago, I got rid of the whole lot.

You are absolutely right FromWithin, the ability to create wonderful and strange sounding synth instruments within Sonix was pretty advanced for it's time and even others like Octamed don't come close, not that I'm knocking it as that one ended up being my favourite purely as Trackers became the norm. Sonix certainly took up alot of my time fine-tuning carefully crafted synths to get them in sync with songs I created.

Doc Mindie · 29 May 2006, 10:11

Nopes, all I get is "Error validating disk, not a DOS disk in device DF0:"

That' WinUAE default 1.3 config, booting Sonix Diskette 1

quahappy · 29 May 2006, 10:15

Doc Mindie - Sonix 2.0 uploaded to the Zone....

This version works with kickstarts 1.3 and higher within WinUAE (versions 1.0.0 and 1.2.0), but I personally use Quickstart config A1200.

Doc Mindie · 30 May 2006, 01:01

Thanks, Qua. This one, I'm happy to say, works as I hoped.

Can't wait to REALLY play around with some strange samples now

andreas · 30 May 2006, 01:32

OK my A500 config made the Sonix 2.0 disk from Deadwood Inc work without problems, BUT this disk seems to have been tampered with...?
"Ghost Busters" cannot find the instrument Vibes, so this disk seems to be modified...

I hope someone has kept his 2.0 original and can dump his disks which are -- hopefully -- not modified in any way.
Probably he will need to use Toni's rawread to read the disk into an extended adf, as it might be protected.

Ray Norrish · 30 May 2006, 01:50

Does anyone have the SLL demo where he released some sonix demos? There was a CLI player iirc on the disk as well.. would love to hear that old gem again...

quahappy · 30 May 2006, 09:08

Yup, Andreas, it is a modified adf disk, downloaded from Planet Emulation quite some time ago. Downloaded it purely to reminiscent.

I'm not 100% sure, but later I will have a look to see if I still have the original Sonix 2.0, which came on two disks but I don't hold out much hope as I got rid of alot of stuff

..... If I do, I just need to get round to getting the necessary gear needed to upload it from my A1200. Just finding the time.

Update: The answer to that one is.... nope, I do not have it anymore

All I have is 5 self-booting Sonix music disks I did myself (which are utterly crap!), numerous copied Instrument disks (for Trackers), all the original A1200 Workbench disks and boxed Amos Professional / Compiler complete with manuals.....and I'm going off topic here, so getting back - noooooo.

Rick Dangerous · 30 May 2006, 14:47

The only SONIX I have since late 1980's comes along with the "M.A.R.R.S. - Pump Up The Volume Samples".

ziovax · 18 July 2006, 16:51

Can you re-upload sonix in the zone, please?

quahappy · 18 July 2006, 20:49

Uploaded

ziovax · 19 July 2006, 10:58

Many thanks!

andreas · 28 July 2006, 00:32

Okay, your guys' interest for Sonix has again aroused my ambitions to dig for MY old data disk with some instruments nicked from the PD pool. Incredibly enough, it was 100% ok after all these years. I knew why I didn't use a no-name disk ...

It has the songs Popcorn, Take Five and even Gazebo's I like Chopin which I all hacked in myself on the 500 back in '91/'92, the latter of which took 2 weeks alone - in the zone (hah, rhymes

)

So don't expect too much, will ya

Instructions:
- v2.0 is a MUST
- 100% accurate sound emulation is a MUST

Put Sonix in df0, the data disk in df1.
When loading one of those scores from df1, Sonix is likely to complain about a missing instrument. This is NOT an error, it will just look for the instruments on df0, but as they are not there, you have to manually say "Rename", direct it to df1:Instruments and load the instrument requested from there. You will only need to do this ONCE as the next instruments will automatically be loaded from df1:.

quahappy · 28 July 2006, 13:45

Hey - nice one andreas!

Forget how many versions I've heard of Popcorn doing the rounds over the years!

I like Chopin in Sonix is a pretty damn good rendition of the original and the first time I've heard the Sonix version. Played the original CD in car this morning.

I quoted in a previous post about Jon Farnhams Your the Voice sonix mod. Anyone got this one to upload to The Zone!? I can't remember if this track was free with Aegis Sonix prior to version 2?

andreas · 28 July 2006, 18:46

Quote:

I like Chopin in Sonix is a pretty damn good rendition of the original and the first time I've heard the Sonix version. Played the original CD in car this morning.

Thanks for the kudos *blush* :P

Which original CD? The '83 Gazebo album?

BTW: What does this tell you? Yes, that it doesn't matter how expensive your hardware had been, but what you can squeeze out of four tracks

Hint: When playing stereo, try swapping channels in WinUAE! ("Paula only")
Sounds way better, but still a bit weird; I think WinUAE doesn't yet reproduce the exact stereo feel of a 1084S, but I may be wrong...?

For "You're The Voice" they used a completely different technique: they crammed whole bars into ONE "instrument", that's why you hear far more than 4 voices ... btw same technique on Pinball Dreams: they sampled a CHORD of a sample/instrument, hence the sound is so amazingly thick

About where to find the disk - no idea, sorry.

17 May 2006, 17:52	#1
Widriksen Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Location: Copenhagen / Denmark Age: 56 Posts: 14	Sonix...Once again. Hi all. I'm faily new here, but have been an Amiga user since the very first days. I actually still have my Amiga 1000, the very first one to hit the sales here in denmark, and my Amiga 2000. It's been a while since i've used them, so i'm not sure if they even work any more. I've just reinstalled the WinUAE, go a hold of the Kickstart roms i need, and am now ready to start using my amiga again. Mostly for some old time gameing fun, but also to revive my first real passion for music....Sonix. I learned everything i know today about music thanks to this awesome program, with a built in synth that i have yet to se recreated in ANY program, on ANY platform since. If someone nows of a program that looks and works like sonix on the PC please do tell!!. I have the sonix versions 1.0 up to 1.3 on disk......for my AMIGA. Instead of me trying to find the disks in my boxes, trying to transfer them to ADF format, i was hopping that someone would be so kind as to tell me were i can find them. I have been all over the internet now, and despite the fact that the AMIGA for all purposes and intents is dead and gone, some people just won't let go of there programs. Can some one help me out here? Please? A link? something??? PLEASE????

29 May 2006, 09:48	#7
quahappy Born again WinUAE user Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: South Yorkshire, UK Age: 56 Posts: 1,667	That's right redblade. Remember that one and the other, Your the Voice (John Farnham) being played in Sonix at my local games shop. Yet another reason that persuaded me to buy the Amiga 500. Created many a song on Sonix and even went as far as linking it up to a Yamaha keyboard giving me 8 channels to play with. I recorded quite a few onto cassette (4-channel songs)..... and boy, listening to them recently.....are they shite! Such a shame, as I had at least 20 Sonix Instruments disks all from 17 Bit Software and.... well you know what's coming..... three years ago, I got rid of the whole lot. You are absolutely right FromWithin, the ability to create wonderful and strange sounding synth instruments within Sonix was pretty advanced for it's time and even others like Octamed don't come close, not that I'm knocking it as that one ended up being my favourite purely as Trackers became the norm. Sonix certainly took up alot of my time fine-tuning carefully crafted synths to get them in sync with songs I created. Last edited by quahappy; 29 May 2006 at 10:11.

29 May 2006, 10:15	#9
quahappy Born again WinUAE user Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: South Yorkshire, UK Age: 56 Posts: 1,667	Doc Mindie - Sonix 2.0 uploaded to the Zone.... This version works with kickstarts 1.3 and higher within WinUAE (versions 1.0.0 and 1.2.0), but I personally use Quickstart config A1200. Last edited by quahappy; 29 May 2006 at 11:14.

30 May 2006, 01:32	#11
andreas Zone Friend Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Germany Age: 50 Posts: 5,857	OK my A500 config made the Sonix 2.0 disk from Deadwood Inc work without problems, BUT this disk seems to have been tampered with...? "Ghost Busters" cannot find the instrument Vibes, so this disk seems to be modified... I hope someone has kept his 2.0 original and can dump his disks which are -- hopefully -- not modified in any way. Probably he will need to use Toni's rawread to read the disk into an extended adf, as it might be protected. Last edited by andreas; 30 May 2006 at 01:37.

30 May 2006, 01:50	#12
Ray Norrish Registered User Join Date: May 2005 Location: Cheshire, UK Age: 56 Posts: 322	SLL sonix demo Does anyone have the SLL demo where he released some sonix demos? There was a CLI player iirc on the disk as well.. would love to hear that old gem again...

18 May 2006, 16:30	#2
Widriksen Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Location: Copenhagen / Denmark Age: 56 Posts: 14	Never mind guys! I found it here: http://www.deadwoodinc.net/amigan/amiga/ There are some other tools and stuff there that some of you might find usefull?!..

28 May 2006, 01:50	#3
Doc Mindie In deep Trouble Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Manchester, Made in Norway Age: 51 Posts: 841	I've tried the version there.... I can't make the Sonix ADF's to work neither under 1.3 nor 3.1 WinUAE configs. the "data" files and the "instruments" images. Tried booting from Sonix itself, or inserted through WB, nothing good happens

28 May 2006, 07:21	#4
FromWithin Music lord Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Liverpool, UK Age: 50 Posts: 630	Works for me with Kickstart 1.3, booting from the disk image. And Widriksen, I know exactly what you mean about Sonix creating sounds that cannot be created elsewhere. Sonix was amazing for its time. It actually had real synthesis. A proper low-pass filter in an Amiga music program was not seen until many, many years after sonix. The thing that makes Sonix interesting, however, is the "Phase" function. I've been experimenting with it, and can't quite work out what it's doing. I'm sure that it's something pretty simple, but it's hard to determine exactly what. If I keep playing with it and sample the output, I'll eventually work it out.

28 May 2006, 08:04	#5
FromWithin Music lord Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Liverpool, UK Age: 50 Posts: 630	Well I've just worked it out...there seem to be two different operations in the Phase function. The first is when the depth is set to 0. In this case, the waveform is copied, and the copy is rotated and added back onto the original. The constant rotation of the copy causes the modulation. By rotated, I mean that the whole waveform is shifted left or right (can't tell), and the bit of data that pops off the end is put back on the other side, When the depth is set above 0, a different function is used. The waveform is split into two halves and each half is compressed or expanded and back again over time. So the left half of the wave is slowly (depending on the speed parameter) stretched over to the right, squashing the right half. When the left half has filled the whole waveform, it reverses, with the left half expanding and the right half squashing. And so on. One of the other things that makes it interesting is that the Sonix waveforms are very, very low resolution. So if you have a bitty waveform (with random bits everywhere) and use the phase function, then as the waveform modulates, various bits keep getting cut out and popped back in at different times, giving it that weird dirty metallic sound. This is because when one side of the waveform is squashed, there is no interpolation to smooth it out. Imagine it like when you zoom slowly into a sample in a sample editor and see peaks appearing and disappearing in different places. Same sort of thing. So that's why you've not been able to recreate it anywhere else. It's time-based synthesis. Pretty much everything else works on frequency-based synthesis. Coincidentally enough, I've written a time-based waveform synthesizer that I can easily add Sonix's Phase function into. Unfortunately, it's just code so is barely even usable by me in music (i.e. no VST plugin or whatever).

29 May 2006, 00:11	#6
redblade Zone Friend Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Middle Earth Age: 40 Posts: 2,130	Is sonix the one with Jays song?

29 May 2006, 10:11	#8
Doc Mindie In deep Trouble Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Manchester, Made in Norway Age: 51 Posts: 841	Nopes, all I get is "Error validating disk, not a DOS disk in device DF0:" That' WinUAE default 1.3 config, booting Sonix Diskette 1

30 May 2006, 01:01	#10
Doc Mindie In deep Trouble Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Manchester, Made in Norway Age: 51 Posts: 841	Thanks, Qua. This one, I'm happy to say, works as I hoped. Can't wait to REALLY play around with some strange samples now

30 May 2006, 09:08	#13
quahappy Born again WinUAE user Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: South Yorkshire, UK Age: 56 Posts: 1,667	Yup, Andreas, it is a modified adf disk, downloaded from Planet Emulation quite some time ago. Downloaded it purely to reminiscent. I'm not 100% sure, but later I will have a look to see if I still have the original Sonix 2.0, which came on two disks but I don't hold out much hope as I got rid of alot of stuff ..... If I do, I just need to get round to getting the necessary gear needed to upload it from my A1200. Just finding the time. Update: The answer to that one is.... nope, I do not have it anymore All I have is 5 self-booting Sonix music disks I did myself (which are utterly crap!), numerous copied Instrument disks (for Trackers), all the original A1200 Workbench disks and boxed Amos Professional / Compiler complete with manuals.....and I'm going off topic here, so getting back - noooooo. Last edited by quahappy; 30 May 2006 at 09:54.

30 May 2006, 14:47	#14
Rick Dangerous Registered Playmate Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: OZ Age: 54 Posts: 156	The only SONIX I have since late 1980's comes along with the "M.A.R.R.S. - Pump Up The Volume Samples".

18 July 2006, 16:51	#15
ziovax Registered User Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Roma / Italia Age: 50 Posts: 90	Can you re-upload sonix in the zone, please? Last edited by ziovax; 18 July 2006 at 16:58.

18 July 2006, 20:49	#16
quahappy Born again WinUAE user Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: South Yorkshire, UK Age: 56 Posts: 1,667	Uploaded

19 July 2006, 10:58	#17
ziovax Registered User Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Roma / Italia Age: 50 Posts: 90	Many thanks!

28 July 2006, 00:32	#18
andreas Zone Friend Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Germany Age: 50 Posts: 5,857	Okay, your guys' interest for Sonix has again aroused my ambitions to dig for MY old data disk with some instruments nicked from the PD pool. Incredibly enough, it was 100% ok after all these years. I knew why I didn't use a no-name disk ... It has the songs Popcorn, Take Five and even Gazebo's I like Chopin which I all hacked in myself on the 500 back in '91/'92, the latter of which took 2 weeks alone - in the zone (hah, rhymes ) So don't expect too much, will ya Instructions: - v2.0 is a MUST - 100% accurate sound emulation is a MUST Put Sonix in df0, the data disk in df1. When loading one of those scores from df1, Sonix is likely to complain about a missing instrument. This is NOT an error, it will just look for the instruments on df0, but as they are not there, you have to manually say "Rename", direct it to df1:Instruments and load the instrument requested from there. You will only need to do this ONCE as the next instruments will automatically be loaded from df1:. Last edited by andreas; 28 July 2006 at 11:07.

28 July 2006, 13:45	#19
quahappy Born again WinUAE user Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: South Yorkshire, UK Age: 56 Posts: 1,667	Hey - nice one andreas! Forget how many versions I've heard of Popcorn doing the rounds over the years! I like Chopin in Sonix is a pretty damn good rendition of the original and the first time I've heard the Sonix version. Played the original CD in car this morning. I quoted in a previous post about Jon Farnhams Your the Voice sonix mod. Anyone got this one to upload to The Zone!? I can't remember if this track was free with Aegis Sonix prior to version 2?

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