English Amiga Board


Go Back   English Amiga Board > Requests > request.UAE Wishlist

 
 
Thread Tools
Old 21 June 2006, 11:34   #1
Marcuz
Wurk???
Marcuz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: .
Age: 45
Posts: 5,269
Pal/ntsc

sorry if the title is not precise, also i'm not sure if this is already possible, i've tryied some setting with no luck.
what i ask for is the ability to stretch the screen from ntsc to pal in games like Lotus or Eye of the Beholder, whych have a black strip at the bottom of the monitor. is it possible? is this even a PAL/NTSC difference, frequency aside, or it is a designer choice? but i've see many other games like that. there are also some cracked games that in the cracktro allows you change between them displays.
Marcuz is offline  
Old 21 June 2006, 13:31   #2
alexh
Thalion Webshrine
alexh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Oxford
Posts: 12,684
Change your emulated window / full screen size to an "NTSC size" one this will have the desired effect.

The number of pixels in low res being displayed in 50Hz PAL is larger than 60Hz NTSC (320x200 vs 320x256?) and lazy game coders used to write games so they worked without change on both.

If you make your emulated screen size smaller in height, the bottom border will be chopped off

The default window resolution is 720x568 (which I have no idea why as this is not PAL or NTSC) but NTSC should be 720x480. You can tweak the height to get rid of the border as you feel.

As for FULL screen modes you will have to create some custom modes using your video card driver (Nvidia) or PowerStrip.

Last edited by alexh; 21 June 2006 at 13:50.
alexh is offline  
Old 21 June 2006, 13:52   #3
DamienD
Banned
DamienD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: London / Sydney
Age: 44
Posts: 20,378
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexh
As for FULL screen modes you will have to create some custom modes using your video card driver (Nvidia) or PowerStrip.
I use PowerStrip for this also http://entechtaiwan.net/util/ps.shtm

Great program and works very well
DamienD is offline  
Old 21 June 2006, 14:29   #4
Toni Wilen
WinUAE developer
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland
Age: 46
Posts: 24,867
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexh
The default window resolution is 720x568 (which I have no idea why as this is not PAL or NTSC) but NTSC should be 720x480. You can tweak the height to get rid of the border as you feel.
Amiga can display about 568 lines in overscan (284 in non-interlaced).

EDIT: Forgot to answer OPs question

Quote:
what i ask for is the ability to stretch the screen from ntsc to pal in games like Lotus or Eye of the Beholder,
Possible with automatic filter change but it won't look too good if you currently use non-scaled mode. Effect will look similar to "Correct Aspect Ratio setting. Probably another not worth the trouble feature..

Last edited by Toni Wilen; 21 June 2006 at 14:42.
Toni Wilen is online now  
Old 21 June 2006, 14:49   #5
Marcuz
Wurk???
Marcuz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: .
Age: 45
Posts: 5,269
i did already that, and i used the built in resolutions setup for NVidia cards to make customs (640*512 for instance works well) , but still i cannot stretch the image as wanted. it seems that the ntsc/pal frequencies just lift up and down the screen. there is a full-screen suggested resolution?
Marcuz is offline  
Old 21 June 2006, 14:53   #6
alexh
Thalion Webshrine
alexh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Oxford
Posts: 12,684
640x400? That is the corresponding "NTSC" resolution for 640x512
alexh is offline  
Old 21 June 2006, 15:38   #7
Marcuz
Wurk???
Marcuz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: .
Age: 45
Posts: 5,269
fullscreen: there is no difference at all between 640*400 and 640*480 with default or 60hz NTSC
Marcuz is offline  
Old 21 August 2006, 16:16   #8
nnever2000
Registered User
nnever2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: italy
Posts: 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by marco pedrana
fullscreen: there is no difference at all between 640*400 and 640*480 with default or 60hz NTSC
I remember that the black area was present even on a real amiga (with 1084S monitor). So emulation are correct.

Normally I play all game in 1280 x 1024 correcting offset and wide with direct3d filter to stretch the image over all the size and using 2xsai.

Play turrican 2 at full screen is amazing!
nnever2000 is offline  
Old 24 August 2006, 23:06   #9
LocalH
Amiga user since 1990
LocalH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Kingsport, TN / USA
Age: 41
Posts: 295
A real NTSC Amiga (or a PAL one in a real NTSC mode) displays taller pixels than a PAL one. I think that's what the OP is inquiring about. Try doing the following:

Set window size to 720x576
Enable "Null filter", 1x in both directions set vertical size to -440, and vertical position to 130

I just did this as a test, so you may want to adjust the vertical size to your taste.
LocalH is offline  
Old 25 August 2006, 01:07   #10
Marcuz
Wurk???
Marcuz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: .
Age: 45
Posts: 5,269
Yay! that works! i've set to 640*576, it should be one of the resolution manually added to the ones possible thru nvidia panel. there's the antialiasing of course, but it does the trick, thank you LocalH!
now the point of my initial query is if it's possible to add something like this to Winuae without scaling, if it can work with a resolution that, like 640*576, one can manually add to the OS.

[edit:]mistake, i typed 512 where it should have been 576.

Last edited by Marcuz; 25 August 2006 at 10:39.
Marcuz is offline  
Old 25 August 2006, 01:45   #11
DamienD
Banned
DamienD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: London / Sydney
Age: 44
Posts: 20,378
Quote:
Originally Posted by marco pedrana
Yay! that works! i've set to 640*512, it should be one of the resolution manually added to the ones possible thru nvidia panel.
Marco, can't you use Powerstrip to add this to the Nvidia panel?

I used it to add 720x576 to my graphics card which wasn't natively supported
DamienD is offline  
Old 25 August 2006, 01:50   #12
Retro-Nerd
Missile Command Champion

Retro-Nerd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Germany
Age: 49
Posts: 12,220
Quote:
Originally Posted by DamienD
Marco, can't you use Powerstrip to add this to the Nvidia panel?

I used it to add 720x576 to my graphics card which wasn't natively supported
There is no need for powerstrip. The nvidia detonator driver supports custom resolutions.
Retro-Nerd is offline  
Old 25 August 2006, 10:30   #13
Marcuz
Wurk???
Marcuz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: .
Age: 45
Posts: 5,269
sorry i've expressed myself poorly: i ALREADY have done that, i use abitually custom configs (640*512, *576, 720*512, 576), but that's not the solution to this problem: i would like instead that winuae would be able to resize the used area of the screen in ntsc to a pal resolution, and if the correspondancy is not perfect, well it would be enough to identify the resolution needed and add it to Nvidia or Ati display

also 640*576 does the trick more often than 720 to me

Last edited by Marcuz; 25 August 2006 at 10:38.
Marcuz is offline  
Old 25 August 2006, 17:32   #14
LocalH
Amiga user since 1990
LocalH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Kingsport, TN / USA
Age: 41
Posts: 295
720x480/576 is closer to a real Amiga's aspect ratio, as you have to account for the overscan area. 640 is okay for use on a PC monitor, as long as you're aware that the aspect isn't 100% accurate to an Amiga.
LocalH is offline  
Old 27 August 2006, 22:17   #15
andreas
Zone Friend
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Germany
Age: 47
Posts: 5,857
Send a message via ICQ to andreas Send a message via AIM to andreas
Quote:
there are also some cracked games that in the cracktro allows you change between them displays.
This is correct, and I haven't yet seen WinUAE react properly on this kind of toggling (often right mouse button)
The picture merely trembles a bit as if the rear monitor connector in a real Amiga had a loose contact

Would be nice if it gets supported someday.
andreas is offline  
Old 20 July 2007, 08:38   #16
Borealis™
 
Posts: n/a
PAl is based on Europe's 50Hz cycle of 220volt, as opposed to North America's NTSC which has to use the 60Hz cycle of 110volt... unfortunately, the lower power of the 110@60Hz, is only capable of 240 lines of resolution, whereas the 220@50Hz was capable of easily handling 500 lines.
The conflict is mainly in the hight/width differences, as ntsc is lower resolution, but a wider display thanx to the extra 10Hz in the base power cycle, and PAL come out as a narrower/taller image signal, as it's width is based on 50Hz, put the hight is over double the resolution of NTSC.
For those who want PAL for European games, simply connect a PAL a520 (which can also be modified to output S-video*) to your amiga, and hook it up to a display device that is also PAL capable.
Unfortunately, I have no extra NTSC a520's left... But I do still have 4 PAL a520's I was thinking of selling or trading for a few more NTSC a520's..
So anbody interested in a purchase or trade... email me: trborealis@yahoo.com
 
Old 20 July 2007, 10:07   #17
alexh
Thalion Webshrine
alexh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Oxford
Posts: 12,684
Quote:
Originally Posted by Borealis™ View Post
PAl is based on Europe's 50Hz cycle of 220volt, as opposed to North America's NTSC which has to use the 60Hz cycle of 110volt... unfortunately, the lower power of the 110@60Hz, is only capable of 240 lines of resolution, whereas the 220@50Hz was capable of easily handling 500 lines.
Total BOLLOCKS!

1) PAL is 288 lines (interlaced) to NTSC's 240 lines. Not 500!!

2) Power has nothing to do with it. The phase of the supply determined the refresh rate and the bandwidth determined the number of lines.

720*288*50 = 10368000
720*240*60 = 10368000

You think that is a coincidence??

Quote:
The conflict is mainly in the hight/width differences, as ntsc is lower resolution, but a wider display thanx to the extra 10Hz in the base power cycle
Wider? They are both 720 pixels wide

Quote:
and PAL come out as a narrower/taller image signal, as it's width is based on 50Hz
Taller? They are both 4:3 ratio. The way they keep the same ratio is because PAL has oblong pixels whereas NTSC has square pixels.

Quote:
put the hight is over double the resolution of NTSC.
We've been through that!

Last edited by alexh; 20 July 2007 at 10:16.
alexh is offline  
 


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Pal - Ntsc dr.mushroom New to Emulation or Amiga scene 26 12 April 2014 09:48
PAL vs. NTSC jimmyd35 project.TOSEC (amiga only) 1 29 April 2013 03:23
NTSC A500 Pal/NTSC mod pics kipper2k Hardware pics 2 29 March 2009 07:56
NTSC to PAL ...what's next? NfernalNfluence support.Hardware 7 28 July 2007 12:19
Ntsc / Pal killergorilla project.SPS (was CAPS) 3 09 July 2003 18:25

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 21:43.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Page generated in 0.12713 seconds with 13 queries