English Amiga Board


Go Back   English Amiga Board > Support > support.Hardware > Hardware pics

 
 
Thread Tools
Old 11 June 2008, 18:20   #21
Yoto
1 Potato to Spam´em all!
Yoto's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Lost in a Wine Country
Age: 46
Posts: 572
To: chaoticjelly
The pictures i posted may be insufficient, if you need better detail on the connections, let me know if you need me to post more detailed pictures.

Quote:
Someone local has a "broken" ICE EPROM programmer that I might be able to have; I think it might also burn PAL's.. ?
I dont know much about that, rkauer is the Man when comes to eprom programming, i´m still to find out if the GAL16V8B-25LJ default program works with MPF920E/131 or if it needs to be programmed specifically to work with it.In other words...if i buy the chip can i use it as it is or do i need to program it with a specific program taken from a working Micronic Drive?
Yoto is offline  
Old 11 June 2008, 23:45   #22
rkauer
I hate potatos and shirts
rkauer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Sao Leopoldo / Brazil
Age: 56
Posts: 3,482
Send a message via MSN to rkauer Send a message via Yahoo to rkauer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yotoxionomai View Post
I dont know much about that, rkauer is the Man when comes to eprom programming, i´m still to find out if the GAL16V8B-25LJ default program works with MPF920E/131 or if it needs to be programmed specifically to work with it.In other words...if i buy the chip can i use it as it is or do i need to program it with a specific program taken from a working Micronic Drive?

Eheh, I'm not the man in programming things, I'm more hardware-oriented.

But I know a few bits in GAL/PIC/FPGA/alike: the chip comes from the store's shelf empty (no program inside). Those kind of chips are a sort of "pico-computer" (they have their own memory, ROM and RISC CPU). Without the "ROM" content they are useless. That's why we need the original GAL (with the protection "fuse" intact) to read the contents to clone it.
rkauer is offline  
Old 12 June 2008, 02:35   #23
Zetr0
Ya' like it Retr0?
Zetr0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 48
Posts: 9,768
@Yoxi

some more on the GAL security feature

Quote:
Originally Posted by GAL16V.pdf
A security cell is provided in the GAL16V8 devices to prevent unauthorized copying of the array patterns. Once programmed, this cell prevents further read access to the functional bits in the device. This cell can only be erased by re-programming the device,
so the original configuration can never be examined once this cell is programmed. The Electronic Signature is always available to the user, regardless of the state of this control cell.
Now I am unsure on two things...

1. If this CELL is set on programming (by default) or set on command
2. If set, can this be negated... legal ramifications may apply.
Zetr0 is offline  
Old 12 June 2008, 06:18   #24
rkauer
I hate potatos and shirts
rkauer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Sao Leopoldo / Brazil
Age: 56
Posts: 3,482
Send a message via MSN to rkauer Send a message via Yahoo to rkauer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zetr0 View Post
@Yoxi
Now I am unsure on two things...

1. If this CELL is set on programming (by default) or set on command
2. If set, can this be negated... legal ramifications may apply.
Then I can say: it's a programmer's choice to set or not the protection bit/cell. Legal issues can exist, of course.

Better ask to the creators if we can duplicate their work.
rkauer is offline  
Old 12 June 2008, 15:56   #25
Yoto
1 Potato to Spam´em all!
Yoto's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Lost in a Wine Country
Age: 46
Posts: 572
Thanks Zetr0 and rkauer!

So how can i "legally" copy the chip?
I guess i have to have a Gal programming device...hummm...

In Ebay i found a Micronik for sale at $0.99 AU:
Here is the link:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Amiga-Micronik-1...QQcmdZViewItem

I can only guess its chip is still intact...
Hey Calgor are you selling this?
Yoto is offline  
Old 12 June 2008, 21:55   #26
rkauer
I hate potatos and shirts
rkauer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Sao Leopoldo / Brazil
Age: 56
Posts: 3,482
Send a message via MSN to rkauer Send a message via Yahoo to rkauer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yotoxionomai View Post
Thanks Zetr0 and rkauer!

So how can i "legally" copy the chip?
I guess i have to have a Gal programming device...hummm...

In Ebay i found a Micronik for sale at $0.99 AU:
Here is the link:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Amiga-Micronik-1...QQcmdZViewItem

I can only guess its chip is still intact...
Hey Calgor are you selling this?
.99AU for the unit? Cheap than chips! But for this month I over quoted my "wife-safe" limit*.

Legally: you need write permission from the creators of the hardware to duplicate it. And a GAL programmer/software too.

* "wife-safe" limit: the maximum amount you can buy in Amiga gear for a month without your wife start screaming/complaining at you.

Example: wife-> <-me
rkauer is offline  
Old 12 June 2008, 22:37   #27
TheCorfiot
Amibay Senior Staff
TheCorfiot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Cardiff / Wales
Posts: 1,302
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkauer View Post
.99AU for the unit? Cheap than chips! But for this month I over quoted my "wife-safe" limit*.

Legally: you need write permission from the creators of the hardware to duplicate it. And a GAL programmer/software too.

* "wife-safe" limit: the maximum amount you can buy in Amiga gear for a month without your wife start screaming/complaining at you.

Example: wife-> <-me

@rk

wife-safe limit............ We all have it mate!!!
Bet mines lower than yours.
TheCorfiot is offline  
Old 13 June 2008, 00:10   #28
rkauer
I hate potatos and shirts
rkauer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Sao Leopoldo / Brazil
Age: 56
Posts: 3,482
Send a message via MSN to rkauer Send a message via Yahoo to rkauer
@Yotoxionomai

On a second thought: you have right to make a backup copy of your software, right? So it's legal to save the contents of the GAL to duplicate it if the original goes west.

But you can't spread the copy, nor duplicate the hardware for another person use it. Even if the person in question is me...
rkauer is offline  
Old 13 June 2008, 00:32   #29
Yoto
1 Potato to Spam´em all!
Yoto's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Lost in a Wine Country
Age: 46
Posts: 572
To: rkauer
Hummm! Yes...but imagine an asteroid crashes in Portugal, or if the Turkish and Czech try to take us captive and force us to reveal the secret that can render Ronaldo´s useless?
It may be safer with you, so i dont mind having a second "backup" in the other side of the Atlantic! .

Ps: Just in case any Czech or Turkish reads this post, i want to thank you guys for your excellent soccer and for my second pacemaker.
Yoto is offline  
Old 13 June 2008, 00:39   #30
Yoto
1 Potato to Spam´em all!
Yoto's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Lost in a Wine Country
Age: 46
Posts: 572
To: rkauer

Quote:
* "wife-safe" limit: the maximum amount you can buy in Amiga gear for a month without your wife start screaming/complaining at you.
LOL! Same here!!!
My wife usually hides my MasterCard! (how weird is that)

Anyway i used to convince her by telling her that Amiga is still cheaper than the other whores!
Beside, whores money must be spent right?
Yoto is offline  
Old 13 June 2008, 06:40   #31
rkauer
I hate potatos and shirts
rkauer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Sao Leopoldo / Brazil
Age: 56
Posts: 3,482
Send a message via MSN to rkauer Send a message via Yahoo to rkauer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yotoxionomai View Post
To: rkauer



LOL! Same here!!!
My wife usually hides my MasterCard! (how weird is that)
I don't mind. I have the magic numbers in a safer place: my head! Among my ID card number, drive license number, taxes ID number and half the telephone white pages of my home town...

Quote:
Anyway i used to convince her by telling her that Amiga is still cheaper than the other whores!
Beside, whores money must be spent right?

Whores! Who? When? Where? I did did anything! Even when she is out of town for summer...
rkauer is offline  
Old 28 June 2008, 16:59   #32
Cameraman
 
Posts: n/a
Was reading your post and decided to join the forum.
The reason I found your post was because I have found an Amtrade Real HD drive in my just acquired Amiga 4000T. It's not functioning right now but after examining the drive I've found that it has a lot of similarities with your Sony MPF920 y Mikronik.
This one has a small pcb attached to where the flatcable plugs into and that pcb contains a PALCE16V8 (GAL). Also the drive has what appears to be just two wires modded inside on the pcb and maybe a small resistor added.
I have the tools needed to read and copy the GAL, and will attempt to do so. Hopefully its protection bit has not been set. I'll post wether or not I'm succesful copying it.

Might actually be the same program inside on both the Mikronik and Amtrade drive...
 
Old 29 June 2008, 00:51   #33
rkauer
I hate potatos and shirts
rkauer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Sao Leopoldo / Brazil
Age: 56
Posts: 3,482
Send a message via MSN to rkauer Send a message via Yahoo to rkauer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cameraman View Post
Was reading your post and decided to join the forum.
The reason I found your post was because I have found an Amtrade Real HD drive in my just acquired Amiga 4000T. It's not functioning right now but after examining the drive I've found that it has a lot of similarities with your Sony MPF920 y Mikronik.
This one has a small pcb attached to where the flatcable plugs into and that pcb contains a PALCE16V8 (GAL). Also the drive has what appears to be just two wires modded inside on the pcb and maybe a small resistor added.
I have the tools needed to read and copy the GAL, and will attempt to do so. Hopefully its protection bit has not been set. I'll post wether or not I'm succesful copying it.

Might actually be the same program inside on both the Mikronik and Amtrade drive...
@Cameraman:

Superb m8!

The "Real Floppy Fix" (Amtrade in short) is a very good device. Shame I never grab one!

I doubt its contents are 100% the same as other HD-floppy units converters. But any of those solutions are good enough.

The Amtrade was available on those Escom A4000T as an original part, IIRC.

BTW: welcome to EAB! Hope you find fun and a happy family in here. At least some pleasant hours and ideas.
rkauer is offline  
Old 29 June 2008, 00:59   #34
Cameraman
 
Posts: n/a
Thanks for the warm welcome ;-)
Could be the same developer behind both drive mods, they're both from Germany.
Anybody with such a drive and the means to do so should at least try to backup the GAL contents or send it to someone to try.
It'd be great to be able to replace more failing Amiga drives.
 
Old 29 June 2008, 03:47   #35
Magic
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 317
I have (2) of these A357 boards. I'm tempted to desolder the GAL from one of them and socket it. Has anyone had any luck reading it yet? Also, my programmer is not up to the task. What specifically is needed to read and program GAL's like that one?

Thanks
-Jeff
Magic is offline  
Old 29 June 2008, 04:58   #36
rkauer
I hate potatos and shirts
rkauer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Sao Leopoldo / Brazil
Age: 56
Posts: 3,482
Send a message via MSN to rkauer Send a message via Yahoo to rkauer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magic View Post
I have (2) of these A357 boards. I'm tempted to desolder the GAL from one of them and socket it. Has anyone had any luck reading it yet? Also, my programmer is not up to the task. What specifically is needed to read and program GAL's like that one?

Thanks
-Jeff
If you don't feel comfortable with dessoldering the chip, you can simply add wires to each of its legs and route to a programmer.

Your programmer isn't able to read? AFAIK, any programmer can read it! You only need the correct program/"driver"/chip-selection running.

BTW: you need to connect it without power it from the floppy connector.
rkauer is offline  
Old 29 June 2008, 07:50   #37
Magic
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 317
I have an old Needhams PB10 programmer that is actually an 8 bit XT card. I had to buy a separate adapter to be able to do 27C400's. The device list doesn't list any PAL's or GAL's. Sounds like I'll need a newer programmer. Any recommendations for that sort of thing? Also, no problem socketing the GAL. I think I read near the beginning of this A1K.org thread that it is not possible to read the GAL on the Amtrade 357 however.

http://a1k.org/forum/showthread.php?...ight=floppyfix
Magic is offline  
Old 06 July 2008, 17:56   #38
Cameraman
 
Posts: n/a
The GAL may be protected, however sometimes people make mistakes and some may have slipped through unprotected. I have a couple of Multiface 3 interfaces for my ZX Spectrum and 2 of them had protected PALs but one was not protected. I was able to make clones of the Interface and replace the hard to find PAL ic with an easier found GAL equivalent.
 
Old 06 July 2008, 19:04   #39
Magic
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 317
I'll check both of mine then and see what happens. My old Needhams programmer is not up to the task however. Now that I look on Ebay there are lots of inexpensive options for programmers some even USB that do Eproms, Flash, GALs ect.

Does anyone have any specific recommendations for an inexpensive unit with decent software and good device coverage?

Thanks,
-Jeff
Magic is offline  
Old 06 July 2008, 20:46   #40
Zetr0
Ya' like it Retr0?
Zetr0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 48
Posts: 9,768
I have recently reviewed a similar project (thanks Magic)

from what i can make out, although the logic is obscured its not too difficult to work out. the CPLD provides around 12 integrated functions, the important is the re-syncing (speed) of the motor throught what seems like pulsing it and coinciding reads from it.

I cannot be 100% as my logic can be quite remedial at the best of times LOL, but i have a couple of good friends that might be able to help
Zetr0 is offline  
 


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Power Computing XL HD Floppy driver disk belimar request.Other 5 16 December 2008 08:56
Amiga Power disk scans Galaxy AMR contributions 0 03 August 2007 05:53
PIC interesting a1200 m/b power hack: takes power from normal HDD power cable plug! keropi Hardware pics 40 16 July 2006 22:16
New Amiga research available Incomparabile Amiga scene 4 19 October 2002 23:50

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 14:42.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Page generated in 0.11432 seconds with 14 queries