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Old 26 November 2022, 21:48   #1
Tavis
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WHDLoad not using 3.1 Kickstart in Devs:Kickstarts ?

Hi all,

I just got WHDLoad going but I have an issue.
Some games are not loading (no matter what i disable Nochache, NoVec etc)...
And I think it is related to games that need WB3.1.

So take Fire&Ice for example, it requires the Kickstart 3.1 image (kick40068.A1200).

So my Amiga 2000 has the Kickstart 2.04 ROM on board and I am running Workbench 2.04.

If I go in and rename my Kickstarts Directory for WHDLoad in Devs:Kickstarts to, say, Devs:KickFarts and then run a game that needs Kickstart 1.3 (Marble Madness in this case) then I get an error about the missing KS files... This is good and expected.. So that confirms that WHDload IS finding my 1.3 Rom files in Devs:Kickstarts.

BUT, if I try to run another game that requires KS3.1, the game loads (or loads and crashes in the Fire&Ice case) and never complains about missing KS ROM.. Even though I have renamed the Kickstarts folder in Devs:Kickstarts.

This leads me to think that the game is loading under the hardware (2.04) Kickstart rom on board.

Can anyone shed some light on this? Looks like none of my games are using the 3.1 rom in devs:Kickstarts.

??

Thanks,

-Tavis
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Old 26 November 2022, 21:53   #2
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Can you list games that you tried apart from Fire & Ice CD32?
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Old 26 November 2022, 22:07   #3
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Shouldn't a no-AGA amiga use kickstart a600 3.1 instead of the 3.1 a1200?
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Old 26 November 2022, 22:26   #4
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yes, but it depends on the slave configuration.

020+ kickemu game first tries (IIRC): .A1200, .A4000 then maybe .A600. With "NO68020", kickemu directly tries .A600 version (some 68000 non AGA games require kick 3.1 - read: we're too lazy to make them work with kick 1.3 )
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Old 26 November 2022, 22:36   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jotd View Post
Can you list games that you tried apart from Fire & Ice CD32?
Fire&Ice doesn't specify CD32 but the ones failing so far are:

Fire&Ice_v2.2_0502.lha
Carnage_v1.0.lha
Flashback_v3.4_1163.lha
SuperOffRoad_v1.3a_NTSC.lha

But aside from he failing why are these games even loading when I rename the Devs:Kickstarts Folder? It's like WHDload isn't even going there unless a game needs KS1.3... What's up with that?
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Old 26 November 2022, 23:37   #6
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Fire&Ice doesn't use a kickstart only the CD32 version does.
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Old 26 November 2022, 23:47   #7
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Flashback used to require kickstart 1.3 but I think Psygore removed that to use his super-secret OS layer he doesn't give the source of.
The other games of your list don't use it either IIRC.


I'm beginning to understand your misunderstanding: only a few games require Kickstarts. Check the readme of each install to know which ones.

Try Virocop AGA, Bloodnet ECS or AGA, Fire & Ice CD32, D/Generation AGA and see what happens when you rename to "kickfarts" (I like that foldername BTW)
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Old 26 November 2022, 23:59   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jotd View Post
Flashback used to require kickstart 1.3 but I think Psygore removed that to use his super-secret OS layer he doesn't give the source of.
The other games of your list don't use it either IIRC.


I'm beginning to understand your misunderstanding: only a few games require Kickstarts. Check the readme of each install to know which ones.

Try Virocop AGA, Bloodnet ECS or AGA, Fire & Ice CD32, D/Generation AGA and see what happens when you rename to "kickfarts" (I like that foldername BTW)
Thanks I will try those games and see what happens.

Yeah, I did check the readme files.

Fire&Ice Readme:
The game requires an installed A1200 or A4000 Kickstart 3.1 image.
The kickstart image must be located in the directory "Devs:Kickstarts" and
must be named "kick40068.A1200" (resp kick40068.A4000).

Well, I suppose the issue might be related to my GVP 030 accelerator card...
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Old 27 November 2022, 00:44   #9
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You can check the whdload download page to see if a slave requires a kickstart image.
In the section WHDLoad Slave information all Slaves in the archive are listed. If there is a Kickstart name set it requires one. It it is 0 then not.
Alternatively you can use the WHDInfo tool from the dev-archive.
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Old 27 November 2022, 01:40   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jotd View Post
Flashback used to require kickstart 1.3 but I think Psygore removed that to use his super-secret OS layer he doesn't give the source of.
The other games of your list don't use it either IIRC.


I'm beginning to understand your misunderstanding: only a few games require Kickstarts. Check the readme of each install to know which ones.

Try Virocop AGA, Bloodnet ECS or AGA, Fire & Ice CD32, D/Generation AGA and see what happens when you rename to "kickfarts" (I like that foldername BTW)
OK here are the results:

Dheneration, Virocop - program requires AGA chip

Bloodnet AGA - you need chipmem up to $1ff000

Bloodnet - could not find any kickstarts 40068.a1200

Fire&ice cd32 - you need chipmem up to ...

So it did look for the kickstarts folder with Bloodnet...
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Old 27 November 2022, 02:07   #11
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If you don't have an AGA machine/configuration, you don't have 2MB chip and whdload stops before kick test. Bloodnet is one of the rare ECS game coded to use 3.1 kick, and as you see kickstart test works.

Some slaves don't have proper AGA check, they choke on chipmem size (but will fail on 2MB ECS so that's a (small) problem).

I see that you thought that Fire & Ice required kick 3.1. Actually the readme states that it's required for CD32 version. ECS version runs without any kick.

With Amiga 2000 if you just have a 68000 you need kick 3.1 for A600 for any ECS game that requires 3.1 (like Bloodnet and a few others I don't remember right now, we tend to avoid requiring 3.1 when 1.3 works, but sometimes it's just beyond me it fails with 1.3 and okay with 3.1...). In the case of Bloodnet it seems that the developers required kickstart 2.0 which is unusual.

Last edited by jotd; 27 November 2022 at 02:12.
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Old 27 November 2022, 02:45   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jotd View Post
If you don't have an AGA machine/configuration, you don't have 2MB chip and whdload stops before kick test. Bloodnet is one of the rare ECS game coded to use 3.1 kick, and as you see kickstart test works.

Some slaves don't have proper AGA check, they choke on chipmem size (but will fail on 2MB ECS so that's a (small) problem).

I see that you thought that Fire & Ice required kick 3.1. Actually the readme states that it's required for CD32 version. ECS version runs without any kick.

With Amiga 2000 if you just have a 68000 you need kick 3.1 for A600 for any ECS game that requires 3.1 (like Bloodnet and a few others I don't remember right now, we tend to avoid requiring 3.1 when 1.3 works, but sometimes it's just beyond me it fails with 1.3 and okay with 3.1...). In the case of Bloodnet it seems that the developers required kickstart 2.0 which is unusual.
Yeah no AGA. It’s used to have a MegaChip but it fried unfortunately. I guess I can chalk my issues up with the GVP 030 accelerator…
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Old 27 November 2022, 10:51   #13
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All whdload ECS games are designed for 68000 anyway. But the faster CPU the merrier.
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Old 27 November 2022, 11:55   #14
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Quote:
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All whdload ECS games are designed for 68000 anyway. But the faster CPU the merrier.
Ive had conflicts. Before adding WHDLoad a bunch of games didn't work at all on this machine. SOME would work if I rebooted with the 030 disabled. Problem is when you disable the 030 you also lose the SCSI so I lose the hard drive and all I can do is boot from the floppy.

Lotus II for example doesn't work at all from floppy unless the 030 is disabled. And its flakey even though whdload (with 030 enabled of course).. It randomly crashes.

I have a few factors causing them to not run.. An 030 accelerator, Kickstart 2.04 with AmigaOS 2.04, And maybe my Agnus ECS environment.. Not sure but WHDLoad has made a huge difference. Now I am only having issues with a few of the games I have when most of them didn't work at all.
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Old 27 November 2022, 14:02   #15
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If a game randomly crashes, you may get a message/coredump. So you could create a mantis issue on the relevant game slaves with details.
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Old 27 November 2022, 14:17   #16
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Quote:
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If a game randomly crashes, you may get a message/coredump. So you could create a mantis issue on the relevant game slaves with details.
Where do I find that?
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Old 27 November 2022, 16:53   #17
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sorry, should have provided the link

http://mantis.whdload.de/

and yes by default coredumps are stored in C:
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Old 27 November 2022, 16:53   #18
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Where do I find that?
Default in C: directory.
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Old 27 November 2022, 19:36   #19
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Ahh c: thanks. And it’s just a file like a crash report?
Yeah I’m already familiar with mantis. We actually use it for tracking our own bugs.
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Old 27 November 2022, 20:38   #20
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great. Find the game in the projects (upper right corner) and explain what happens and when. Attach the .whdl_register file (the smallest one) if possible
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