Supercars 2 AGA - Page 12

vulture · 15 July 2021, 12:46

Thx jotd!

sheik · 17 July 2021, 01:26

Played this for the first time with my friend from school this evening. Absolutely brilliant work jotd, thank you so much! We played Easy in PAL (no music) and then Medium in NTSC with music. Everything seemed to work flawlessly (A1200 WHDLoad with ACA1230) The in-game music was initially jarring, but after a few laps we decided we really liked it.

jotd, can you share some insights into the repair garage logic? It is always infuriating when you end up clicking 8 out of 9 expensive repairs and it only fixes about half of your energy. Hilarious when it's your mate that gets ripped off of course! As far as I can tell the more expensive repairs *usually* fix a bigger chunk of energy, but not always. Is it completely random or is there something more cunning going on behind the scenes? (I'm not asking you to change the behaviour, it is perfectly designed as it is

)

The ram logic is evil as well. I played with my 8 year old son a few months ago (non AGA version), I had 3 rams and he had 1. I died *every* time I touched his car, for the entire race. It's little injustices like this that makes the game even better

.

I've read this thread but I'm not sure whether you are saying reverse tracks are possible in future?

I saw that you said it would be tricky to overlay position numbers on each car. I wonder whether you could put some kind of graphical effect to show just the lead driver? Or if that's not possible, maybe display the lead car in the middle of the status screen? Really just some way of knowing which is the car to target with missiles!

I haven't played it enough yet to know if the colours of the cars correspond to the names of the computer drivers on the leaderboard? Or are the names just randomly assigned at the end of each race?

I've been playing this games with friends and family for 30 years and your enhanced version has now supplanted the original. Thanks again!

jotd · 17 July 2021, 19:19

thanks.

That's a long post, I'll try to answer as much as I can. I didn't dig into all game internals, just the graphical & sound routines (which is already a big part). The logic wasn't too much analyzed.

About car colors: depending on start positions AFAIK.

Adding some hint to who is first: well, this could be done but the amount of work is too much for me.

Reverse tracks: yes, that is possible. But I have to figure out all logical map codes yet. I know how the cars are guided, with zones telling to go up/down/lieft/right so reverting this would roughly give backwards tracks. That + start car positions.

For the missile collision: the code is

Code:

		move.w	ramam(a3),d1
		and.w	#$ff,d1
		asl.w	#6,d1
		asl.w	#8,d1	;0000 4000 8000 c000
		bsr	random
		cmp.w	d0,d1
		bcc.s	.lucky  ; lucky => not killed

random returns a pseudo random number. Here we compare the lower 16 bits so that's basically 3/4 chance to kill when hitting with 3 ram. That's for the missile collision part, and seems to match the 3 armor => very lucky rule.
But ramam is a mix between ram and armour... So seems that ram also contributes to missile protection!

for the ramming the odds are 16 times lower

Code:

		move.w	ramam(a3),d1
		and.w	#$ff00,d1
		beq.s	.lucky1
		asl.w	#2,d1		;0000 0400 0800 0c00
		bsr	random
		cmp.w	d0,d1
		bcs.s	.lucky1

max value we can get with 3 ram is approx C00. If random comes out has higher then no ramming. That's about 4% of chances maximum.

Repairs look random. It's just that some jobs have a bigger max value, so you have more chance of being ripped off by paying a big price. Maybe I'm not analyzing properly. There must be some trick to advantage big prices sometimes... Too lazy to figure it out.

Code:

initjobprices
		lea	repamts,a3
		moveq	#7,d7
.lp22		bsr	random
		mulu.w	#3,d0
		divu.w	#4,d0
		add.w	#$4000,d0	;$4000-$ffff		;cost
		move.w	d0,(a3)+
		dbra	d7,.lp22

		lea	repamts,a3
		move.w	amountdamage,d1
		lsr.w	#8,d1		
		lsr.w	#1,d1		;num of jobs to kill, 0-8
		bra.s	.db
.ag		bsr	random

		and.w	#14,d0
		tst.w	(a3,d0)
		beq.s	.ag
		clr.w	(a3,d0)
.db		dbra	d1,.ag

		clr.w	d0
		lea	repamts,a3
		moveq	#7,d7
.lpaa		move.w	(a3)+,d3	;$4000-$ffff
		mulu.w	d3,d3		
		swap	d3		;$1000-$ffff
		mulu.w	d3,d3		
		swap	d3		;$0100-$ffff
		lsr.w	#8,d3		;$0010-$0fff
		add.w	d3,d0
.sld		dbra	d7,.lpaa


maxjobcosts	dc.w	400,800,600,400,1000,600,800,1000

jurassicman · 18 July 2021, 15:09

I didn't know that RAM contributes to missile protection!

It would be great to have a cheat sheet for the "comms screen" like that available for SuperCars I. Does anyone know if there is a similar cheat sheet anywhere? Or maybe is someone willing to do it?

jotd · 18 July 2021, 16:43

a long time ago I remade the game on Windows. I got all questions & answers extracted (and also translated to french). Not sure if it's me but it seems to exist 1 bad 1 neutral and 1 good answer.

I don't remember how I figured which was which and I could be wrong at times. But it's pretty okay (maybe now I can make it 100% authentic with the source code)

Disregard the "ins" and "arms" folder, they're from Supercars International, I didn't put them back here (I could have... but well, that means more work

)

Check there: https://github.com/jotd666/supercars...er/commscreens

Jacques · 19 July 2021, 12:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by jotd

released. Now from my webpage only https://jotd.pagesperso-orange.fr/amiga.html

Thank you, and congratulations for finishing SC2 AGA, unfortunately the link is currently not reachable.
Maybe you could attach it to the 1st post, please?

As for AGA reworked versions, I dream of Mortal Kombat (1, 2 or both

)... That would be amazing

Seiya · 19 July 2021, 13:49

thank you

jurassicman · 19 July 2021, 16:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by jotd

a long time ago I remade the game on Windows. I got all questions & answers extracted (and also translated to french). Not sure if it's me but it seems to exist 1 bad 1 neutral and 1 good answer.

I don't remember how I figured which was which and I could be wrong at times. But it's pretty okay (maybe now I can make it 100% authentic with the source code)

Disregard the "ins" and "arms" folder, they're from Supercars International, I didn't put them back here (I could have... but well, that means more work

)

Check there: https://github.com/jotd666/supercars...er/commscreens

Thanks!
I'll check that out as soon as I can!

sheik · 20 July 2021, 13:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by jotd

thanks.

That's a long post, I'll try to answer as much as I can. I didn't dig into all game internals, just the graphical & sound routines (which is already a big part). The logic wasn't too much analyzed.

Thank you for your detailed answer, that’s all really interesting (I wish my assembly was good enough to fully analyse the snippets you posted!).

I still say there is something more complex going on with repairs, but that could be apophenia at play

.

CaptainNow · 21 July 2021, 11:13

Are there any plans to use the ripped maps from Supercars International that use more colours etc?

CaptainNow · 21 July 2021, 16:15

Probably not at all what you're interested in, but I have been playing around with track 1

jotd · 21 July 2021, 19:31

that could be cool but

1) you can't just rework the shaded pics. If you want to rework existing circuits, use the unshaded versions
2) palette is pretty much limited. 64 colors total + shades. But there are 20+ fixed colors. And all tracks of the same kind (grass, rock, snow) must share the same palette.

So it's pretty frustrating but sometimes adding 2 or 3 colors ruins the mapping. I only use 7 planes (128 colors with shades) else it would be too slow with 8 planes (it's already not that smooth)

Quote:

Are there any plans to use the ripped maps from Supercars International that use more colours etc?

I/you can basically do the same with just a bit of work with GIMP (and has to respect the above too

). I don't know how to rip data from this damn game. Too bad as the title music and some static pics are great.

CaptainNow · 22 July 2021, 15:26

Yeah, I forgot you're working within strict palette rules.

I have been playing around with the possibility of creating new tracks for you (if you'd be interested in them that is).

I am also thinking of ripping the tracks/screens from Supercars International, I should be able to recreate my new standard Amiga tracks with the graphics from International (if my plan works that is).

This is just a little fun test that I created this afternoon using the standard Amiga maps...with a little work I can create allsorts of new tracks

jurassicman · 22 July 2021, 16:15

The Supercars I tracks would be cool as well...

jotd · 22 July 2021, 18:38

still have to figure out exactly how the meta data work. Not a lot of time to do that ATM but that may change

Superman · 22 July 2021, 18:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainNow

Yeah, I forgot you're working within strict palette rules.

I have been playing around with the possibility of creating new tracks for you (if you'd be interested in them that is).

I am also thinking of ripping the tracks/screens from Supercars International, I should be able to recreate my new standard Amiga tracks with the graphics from International (if my plan works that is).

This is just a little fun test that I created this afternoon using the standard Amiga maps...with a little work I can create allsorts of new tracks

Wow that must have taken a while to erect

CaptainNow · 22 July 2021, 19:05

Fnarr

CaptainNow · 24 July 2021, 18:30

I am managing to rip the tracks (and other screens) successfully from Supercars International

Gzegzolka · 24 July 2021, 19:46

Nice colorful track

Superman · 24 July 2021, 20:34

I look forward to your next track Wayne. Cockenheim was a nice first attempt.

17 July 2021, 19:19	#223
jotd This cat is no more Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: FRANCE Age: 52 Posts: 8,162	thanks. That's a long post, I'll try to answer as much as I can. I didn't dig into all game internals, just the graphical & sound routines (which is already a big part). The logic wasn't too much analyzed. About car colors: depending on start positions AFAIK. Adding some hint to who is first: well, this could be done but the amount of work is too much for me. Reverse tracks: yes, that is possible. But I have to figure out all logical map codes yet. I know how the cars are guided, with zones telling to go up/down/lieft/right so reverting this would roughly give backwards tracks. That + start car positions. For the missile collision: the code is Code: move.w ramam(a3),d1 and.w #$ff,d1 asl.w #6,d1 asl.w #8,d1 ;0000 4000 8000 c000 bsr random cmp.w d0,d1 bcc.s .lucky ; lucky => not killed random returns a pseudo random number. Here we compare the lower 16 bits so that's basically 3/4 chance to kill when hitting with 3 ram. That's for the missile collision part, and seems to match the 3 armor => very lucky rule. But ramam is a mix between ram and armour... So seems that ram also contributes to missile protection! for the ramming the odds are 16 times lower Code: move.w ramam(a3),d1 and.w #$ff00,d1 beq.s .lucky1 asl.w #2,d1 ;0000 0400 0800 0c00 bsr random cmp.w d0,d1 bcs.s .lucky1 max value we can get with 3 ram is approx C00. If random comes out has higher then no ramming. That's about 4% of chances maximum. Repairs look random. It's just that some jobs have a bigger max value, so you have more chance of being ripped off by paying a big price. Maybe I'm not analyzing properly. There must be some trick to advantage big prices sometimes... Too lazy to figure it out. Code: initjobprices lea repamts,a3 moveq #7,d7 .lp22 bsr random mulu.w #3,d0 divu.w #4,d0 add.w #$4000,d0 ;$4000-$ffff ;cost move.w d0,(a3)+ dbra d7,.lp22 lea repamts,a3 move.w amountdamage,d1 lsr.w #8,d1 lsr.w #1,d1 ;num of jobs to kill, 0-8 bra.s .db .ag bsr random and.w #14,d0 tst.w (a3,d0) beq.s .ag clr.w (a3,d0) .db dbra d1,.ag clr.w d0 lea repamts,a3 moveq #7,d7 .lpaa move.w (a3)+,d3 ;$4000-$ffff mulu.w d3,d3 swap d3 ;$1000-$ffff mulu.w d3,d3 swap d3 ;$0100-$ffff lsr.w #8,d3 ;$0010-$0fff add.w d3,d0 .sld dbra d7,.lpaa maxjobcosts dc.w 400,800,600,400,1000,600,800,1000 Last edited by jotd; 17 July 2021 at 19:29.

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15 July 2021, 12:46	#221
vulture Registered User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Athens , Greece Posts: 1,840	Thx jotd!

17 July 2021, 01:26	#222
sheik Registered User Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Caxton Posts: 7	Played this for the first time with my friend from school this evening. Absolutely brilliant work jotd, thank you so much! We played Easy in PAL (no music) and then Medium in NTSC with music. Everything seemed to work flawlessly (A1200 WHDLoad with ACA1230) The in-game music was initially jarring, but after a few laps we decided we really liked it. jotd, can you share some insights into the repair garage logic? It is always infuriating when you end up clicking 8 out of 9 expensive repairs and it only fixes about half of your energy. Hilarious when it's your mate that gets ripped off of course! As far as I can tell the more expensive repairs usually fix a bigger chunk of energy, but not always. Is it completely random or is there something more cunning going on behind the scenes? (I'm not asking you to change the behaviour, it is perfectly designed as it is ) The ram logic is evil as well. I played with my 8 year old son a few months ago (non AGA version), I had 3 rams and he had 1. I died every time I touched his car, for the entire race. It's little injustices like this that makes the game even better . I've read this thread but I'm not sure whether you are saying reverse tracks are possible in future? I saw that you said it would be tricky to overlay position numbers on each car. I wonder whether you could put some kind of graphical effect to show just the lead driver? Or if that's not possible, maybe display the lead car in the middle of the status screen? Really just some way of knowing which is the car to target with missiles! I haven't played it enough yet to know if the colours of the cars correspond to the names of the computer drivers on the leaderboard? Or are the names just randomly assigned at the end of each race? I've been playing this games with friends and family for 30 years and your enhanced version has now supplanted the original. Thanks again!

18 July 2021, 15:09	#224
jurassicman Registered User Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: Sassari/Italy Posts: 867	I didn't know that RAM contributes to missile protection! It would be great to have a cheat sheet for the "comms screen" like that available for SuperCars I. Does anyone know if there is a similar cheat sheet anywhere? Or maybe is someone willing to do it?

18 July 2021, 16:43	#225
jotd This cat is no more Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: FRANCE Age: 52 Posts: 8,162	a long time ago I remade the game on Windows. I got all questions & answers extracted (and also translated to french). Not sure if it's me but it seems to exist 1 bad 1 neutral and 1 good answer. I don't remember how I figured which was which and I could be wrong at times. But it's pretty okay (maybe now I can make it 100% authentic with the source code) Disregard the "ins" and "arms" folder, they're from Supercars International, I didn't put them back here (I could have... but well, that means more work ) Check there: https://github.com/jotd666/supercars...er/commscreens

19 July 2021, 13:49	#227
Seiya Registered User Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Italy Posts: 2,342	thank you

21 July 2021, 11:13	#230
CaptainNow Eleventh Hour Games Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Carnforth, England Age: 49 Posts: 558	Are there any plans to use the ripped maps from Supercars International that use more colours etc?

21 July 2021, 16:15	#231
CaptainNow Eleventh Hour Games Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Carnforth, England Age: 49 Posts: 558	Probably not at all what you're interested in, but I have been playing around with track 1

22 July 2021, 15:26	#233
CaptainNow Eleventh Hour Games Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Carnforth, England Age: 49 Posts: 558	Yeah, I forgot you're working within strict palette rules. I have been playing around with the possibility of creating new tracks for you (if you'd be interested in them that is). I am also thinking of ripping the tracks/screens from Supercars International, I should be able to recreate my new standard Amiga tracks with the graphics from International (if my plan works that is). This is just a little fun test that I created this afternoon using the standard Amiga maps...with a little work I can create allsorts of new tracks

22 July 2021, 16:15	#234
jurassicman Registered User Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: Sassari/Italy Posts: 867	The Supercars I tracks would be cool as well...

22 July 2021, 18:38	#235
jotd This cat is no more Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: FRANCE Age: 52 Posts: 8,162	still have to figure out exactly how the meta data work. Not a lot of time to do that ATM but that may change

22 July 2021, 19:05	#237
CaptainNow Eleventh Hour Games Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Carnforth, England Age: 49 Posts: 558	Fnarr

24 July 2021, 18:30	#238
CaptainNow Eleventh Hour Games Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Carnforth, England Age: 49 Posts: 558	I am managing to rip the tracks (and other screens) successfully from Supercars International

24 July 2021, 19:46	#239
Gzegzolka Registered User Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Warszawa / Polska Posts: 1,858	Nice colorful track

24 July 2021, 20:34	#240
Superman Super Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Wakefield Age: 48 Posts: 1,334	I look forward to your next track Wayne. Cockenheim was a nice first attempt.

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