Soundtracker 15 modules difficult to rip

[chip]

Hi guys

Perhaps this is a too much technical question, but i want to ask anyway

Why ST15 modules are difficult to rip ?

I mean, both ExoticRipper for Amiga and ProWizard for PC are able to detect this kind of format

Anyway, when you got the module, sometimes it doesn't play as expected

In other words, sometimes the rip is a fake rip, because the resulting module doesn't work

I am sure there's a reason for this

Thanks for the attention, chip

[Galahad/FLT]

You need to ensure you're using the correct player or editor to play certain 15 sample modules.

Most of them originate from the original Soundtracker, but it was expanded by hackers, commands were added, changed, so my advice is find something that specifically plays Soundtracker 15 sample modules and the chances are, it'll work fine.

[chip]

In other words i must play them with the "original" Soundtracker editor

If a module is made with a certain editor i must use it for the playback too

It makes sense, but how can i know the "original" editor used ?

[Galahad/FLT]

Originally Posted by chip

In other words i must play them with the "original" Soundtracker editor

If a module is made with a certain editor i must use it for the playback too

It makes sense, but how can i know the "original" editor used ?

15 sample mods are Soundtracker, pretty sure there is a mod player by Comrade J that plays them properly.

Most other 30 sample mods would originate from Noisetracker/Protracker.

15 sample is early Soundtracker

[chip]

Ok, but Soundtrackers editors are many

http://janeway.exotica.org.uk/search...about&music=on

Are the differences between the various sound editors which make the format difficult to rip ?

[mai]

Some old Soundtracker15 rips are corrupt because Sampledata are often not saved right after Songdata.

[chip]

Thanks for the info mai

To be honest this goes out of my comprehension

[curtcool]

It is sometimes possible to rip and combine the samples using http://aminet.net/mus/misc/SoundCracker.lha. I would believe that the reason samples are stored a different place in memory is that in some early Soundtrackers editions, modules were not a thing - songs with external samples were, however.

Program is old, buggy and doesn't really work (or at least often crashes) on AGA machines. Can be used on an emulator too, though. Just remember to soft-reset (as in the three magical keys, not F12/Reset).

[Asle]

I guess the answer it twofold, at least.
1.
the soundtracker file is correctly ripped but badly replayed - there are several cases where a some version of earlier soundtracker need a specific replay. I've attached an example of such a case (example.7z).
It is this music : http://janeway.exotica.org.uk/release.php?id=79777
The correct rip 2@1DC00.stk and the "bad replay compatible" updated version. Everybody stores the "fixed" version.

2.
Samples are split from the patterns. While this is NOT specific to soundtracker (Tracker Packer 3 or The Player 6 - for example - come to mind), it is certainly more frequent. In practice, the ripper tools (including mine) expect sample data to be right after the pattern data. Such simple tool can't determine if the data after the pattern data is actually the sample data or not. This leads to weird sounds, mostly. The file is structurally correct.
Many many examples for such cases. The following 1988 demo for example : http://janeway.exotica.org.uk/release.php?id=5735
Just Hex-edit the file and go near the end to the the pattern data. A little before that, the samples.

2.ß
There are actually other rare occurrences where it can sound wrong as well. Early replay stored a sample only once even if it is used twice in the soundtracker header. Thus, fooling the ripping tool. Also, although a sample would be declared in the header, if it isn't used in the patterns, said sample wouldn't be saved.
etc.

I'm actually trying something new about this (well, new for me ..). It consists of detecting replays and read them to grab the actual position of everything in the decrunched demo file. Since I don't know anything about 68k, it's far from easy and, to be honest, I'm not sure I can manage that. I seen a great many replays so far. Main issue for the moment is that many STK replays don't actually know where they are loaded but expect to be loaded at a certain place in memory only. This means the ripping tool must read something else than the replay itself, etc.

Anyway, that was based on my own practices. Maybe other more experienced people know about more reasons to fail at ripping an accurate STK.

[chip]

Thanks for the detailed explanation Asle

[Viceroy]

Pardon my ignorance but which are the 3 magic keys for a soft reset in Emulation please?
I've never used a ripper since having a proper Amiga ;-)

[chip]

Just don't use memory for ripping the modules

Make a file rip instead using ExoticRipper (Amiga) or ProWizard (PC)

Only use memory as last try

[coldacid]

Viceroy: Same as on a real Amiga, you just need to keep in mind what your LAmiga and RAmiga keys have been mapped to on your PC keyboard and use those.

[Viceroy]

Originally Posted by chip

Just don't use memory for ripping the modules

Make a file rip instead using ExoticRipper (Amiga) or ProWizard (PC)

Only use memory as last try

;-)

[Viceroy]

Originally Posted by coldacid

Viceroy: Same as on a real Amiga, you just need to keep in mind what your LAmiga and RAmiga keys have been mapped to on your PC keyboard and use those.

Cheers, Do you have any idea what the default keys are on Winuae please?