State of computer graphics when Amiga was born...

[Amigajay]

He just needs a good hug i think, i volunteer Mcgeezer to bring the love

[Galahad/FLT]

Originally Posted by Amigajay

He just needs a good hug i think, i volunteer Mcgeezer to bring the love

..around the neck!

[Amigajay]

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT

..around the neck!

Haha! Now now, lets not be unkind, i do kinda feel sorry for people like that who feel the need to spend their own time on forums of machines they were jealous of back in the day to try and wind people up to make themselves feel better that they made the right choice of machine so many decades ago.

[mcgeezer]

Originally Posted by Amigajay

Haha! Now now, lets not be unkind, i do kinda feel sorry for people like that who feel the need to spend their own time on forums of machines they were jealous of back in the day to try and wind people up to make themselves feel better that they made the right choice of machine so many decades ago.

I think they succeeded to be honest (winding people up).

We all know the Amiga is the best machine of its life time so why do we bite when idiots challenge the facts. Granted a challenge is fine but a 7 challenge and a mystery cameo.... not good...
Not good.

[Weaselrama]

I'm not sure how it happened but computers and their respective OSs are a religion to some. I experienced this in my last job where the Server and Script guys HATED the Macs we used in Marketing and Design. HATED. Conversely, the Mac people HATED Windows for a variety of the same lame reasons the Windows guys hated the Mac.

When the server team was still responsible for rolling out Mac upgrades, they'd do shit like try to disable features they knew the Mac people liked, I suppose because Windows at the time (we'd just rolled out Windows 7 to the Enterprise) didn't have a particular feature. They'd permanently set the Mac "traffic lights" to gray scale "to make it more like Windows." When they rolled out Win 7, they tried to convince leadership that it should be rolled out in Win XP style (which looked like crap in Win 7) instead of the non-Aero design, which was actually kind of attractive without the transparency, because "it looks too much like Mac."

It looked nothing like the Mac and the Mac looked nothing like Win 7. It was some of the most ridiculous malarkey I'd ever had to listen to. The jealousies and infighting - over a computer OS's GUI design! They even wanted to disable iTunes on the Mac but found they couldn't - I was very happy for the Mac people.

This is the kind of senseless "bigotry" this guy had against the Amiga. It was like reading hardcore Linux shell users hate on Gnome or KDE or even earlier window managers. "Real men use command-line only!"

We have these people - I call them "influencers" here on EAB who show up on a thread, and say shit like, "MUI sux man! Only bulldyke nazi girlie-men use MUI! It sux because and because and because. Real men use BGui!" Then, out of nowhere, a bunch of people show up and chime in, "Yeah, Goonkicker is right! He's always right! MUI sux and I would never allow it on my configuration because I'm just like Goonpicker!" And so it goes, no matter that it's just a toolkit and no matter that not using it limits the Workbench experience - no iBrowse, no RNO tools, etc.

Micro-fanboism I suppose.

I seem to recall someone not long ago post that the only valid emulation was the A500 to run WHDLoad games and anything else was just showing off. People can't seem to wrap their heads around the idea that Amigans are a very diverse group. Many are extremely proud of their "Bench" and their choice of icons and docks and how well they can do this thing and that thing. We even have our "CLI ONLY!!" crowd as well.

The man is a rabid hater over something that broken down to basics is a bunch of 1's an 0's flowing through a buss, garbage in, garbage out.

[Foebane]

Sorry, Weaselrama, but I too DESPISE Apple in all its forms, I just wanted it to go bust like Commodore did in the 1990s. However, whilst I hate Steve Jobs with a passion for being so ruthless and generally being a jerk, I do respect Steve Wozniak, who created the hardware that made Apple possible in the first place, like another Jay Miner.

[amiman99]

I got into Amiga fairly late, around 1990. Mostly using C64 and Atari 130.
My first Amiga was a used A1000 with Shadow of the Beast III. I was blow away when I saw the game boot up on that computer. The gfx and sound was amazing. I did not see that before.
This computer was designed in 1984 and had gfx similar to Sega Genesis and SNES (which was not released yet.)

[Weaselrama]

Originally Posted by Foebane

Sorry, Weaselrama, but I too DESPISE Apple in all its forms, I just wanted it to go bust like Commodore did in the 1990s. However, whilst I hate Steve Jobs with a passion for being so ruthless and generally being a jerk, I do respect Steve Wozniak, who created the hardware that made Apple possible in the first place, like another Jay Miner.

I thought Steve Jobs was a jerk too. However, I have nothing but respect for the teams of creative minds who designed and built NeXTSTEP - the OS I really wanted to own and run in the 90s, and the creative minds that merged NeXTSTEP into OS 9 to create Rhapsody and finally OS X (Mac OS).

I'm sorry but I just can't hate an OS because I hate some person or group of people. I also spent a lot of time admiring the Atari ST even though I love my Amiga and I didn't hate it because I despised Jack Tramiel who was an even more ruthless and greedy parasite than Steve Jobs. I liked the way the apps looked with the default GEM font. There was nothing like my Amiga though and I felt very lucky to have it and experience it and learn from it.

I don't hate computers and the OSs that run on them. Why on Earth would I? I liked Win 7 as much as I liked OS X even though I thought and still think Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer were leaches - parasites - truly evil, grasping, manipulative men. I enjoy a particular aesthetic and artistic beauty and Windows 7 was the best OS Microsoft ever developed.

I adopted and finally "went Mac" with Panther in 2009 or thereabouts. I have nothing but respect for the brilliant young people that made them happen. I get along quite well in all of them. I run Win 10 in VMWare on the Mac, keep it updated, and try to learn new features even though I'm retired and left the Desktop Service world a long time ago. I am infinitely fascinated by ALL of them and I don't have to justify to a living soul why the Mac is my computer of choice. How I'll feel about it when and if they move to ARM is another matter and I might go back to a "PC" and run Hackintosh. I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.

Finally, I use FS-UAE and I'm grateful to Toni Wilen for all of his time and effort and to Frode Solheim for porting Toni's UAE to the Mac.

[saimon69]

Was an amiga-only guy until 1995 when i got my hands on an A1200 and installed the shapeshifter emulator, so that was able to work with graphical services from home, so got exposed to the Mac atmosphere, and was not THAT bad, of course not at the level of Amigas [multitasking and screen dragging did spoil me], but there was a level of polish on the user interaction that still is missing, like, no clipboard?
And then later on had to learn to work also on windows DOS and a bit of unix, so thet gave me a discrete overlook on all computing; for do graphical jobs at home i found myself swamped with the 1200 and conflicting PCMCIA so had to buy a Performa, and then i really did learn what Apple ownership is about: lot of planned obsolescence with memory to upgrade pretty expensive due to being proprietary and being locked in a SCSI world due to my machine being pre-usb; later on i did buy a semidecent Windows PC.

Recently in my new workplace i got exposed to macs again - is a school district, historically a place where macs were predominant - and since machines are not that recent i did touch with hand what means being with an OS-X machine that cannot update software up to a certain level.

But, what i mean is that i can use all those machines and try to get most of it, am just not locked in anymore in a "this or death" fanboyism.

And, keeping in mind the progress, there are stuff that amigas can still do better

[robinsonb5]

Thing is, it's not just Amigas or Macs or computers in general - it's everything, and it seems to be getting worse.

Maybe it's just that social media makes it so much more visible, but it seems to me that people in general are become less and less able to disagree gracefully.

[Weaselrama]

Originally Posted by amiman99

I got into Amiga fairly late, around 1990. Mostly using C64 and Atari 130.
My first Amiga was a used A1000 with Shadow of the Beast III. I was blow away when I saw the game boot up on that computer. The gfx and sound was amazing. I did not see that before.
This computer was designed in 1984 and had gfx similar to Sega Genesis and SNES (which was not released yet.)

I also bought my Amiga 1000 late, in late 1990 or early 1991 having used the C64 and Berkeley Softworks' GeoWorks. I got a lot of real world work done in GeoWorks.

I was blown away by the Amiga experience. I collected all the cover disks I could get my hands on and all the Mods I could get my hands on and Octamed was almost always running on my Amiga, piped in stereo to my sound system. I felt like I was king of the world playing mods for hours and writing my own. I wrote my resume in Excellence! and it looked amazing on paper. I thought my old Commodore monitor - I forget the model number - was kinda cheesy however.

[Weaselrama]

Originally Posted by saimon69

But, what i mean is that i can use all those machines and try to get most of it, am just not locked in anymore in a "this or death" fanboyism.

And, keeping in mind the progress, there are stuff that amigas can still do better

Well said on both counts. I'm astounded at what I can do on and from the Workbench this many years later.

[d4rk3lf]

Originally Posted by Weaselrama

I'm not sure how it happened but computers and their respective OSs are a religion to some.

This is pretty much in every field where humans are offered variations of something.
People fight over all kinds of sports, religion, politics, art genders, music, games, books... etc
-------

People love Amiga so much, not without reason.
It offered "all in one" package, with so much impressive games (of all types), it offers powerful drawing apps like DPaint (now, that was fun for everyone), powerful 3D apps like Real 3D, powerful music apps like Octamed... etc..
And all for reasonable amount of money, and getting into Amiga was very easy for everyone.
You just pop up floppy into the drive, and the rest of the world slowly unveil to you.

No comp (that I know) had all that.

[Weaselrama]

Originally Posted by robinsonb5

Thing is, it's not just Amigas or Macs or computers in general - it's everything, and it seems to be getting worse.

Maybe it's just that social media makes it so much more visible, but it seems to me that people in general are become less and less able to disagree gracefully.

At times I'm fairly impressed the ability to exchange information gracefully. For example, I belong to a number of FB groups, including a surprisingly large variety of Amiga groups, based on my personal interests: The Amiga, Antique photography, History (The Weimar Era is a great group), Language, antique gramophones and radios,etc. In the Amiga groups, there is none of the in-fighting you see on EAB but I suppose that's understandable given the amount of activity and contributors to EAB.

The only time I run into people who cannot disagree gracefully is when I run into people, mostly Americans, who are bound and determined that the US and in fact the world, is and should be a haven for a single race/ethnicity and a single religion (theirs).

I note on the Amiga groups, and I can state that it is universal, that contributors trade information, tricks and tips, on a variety of accelators and OS distributions, the conversation is very friendly, and never once can I remember anyone taking intransigent stands against the use of particular hardware, the company that produces them, or against any particular OS distribution. I've never once seen arguments pitting OS 3.1.4 against OS 3.9 with the attitude that one is superior to the other or that "real Amigans only use X."

It is unfortunate that a wonderful forum like EAB often sees threads which become powderkegs due to conflicting opinions. This thread was rare due to the fact that the conflict was due to a single contributor who did his damndest to sow discord. Because we're fallible human beings we are very sensitive to criticism of our favorite Retro-platform and *even though we know better* and I myself am the most guilty, we feel we have to defend the Amiga being fully cognizant that we're being emotionally manipulated - played, to put it bluntly. In retrospect, all we would have had to have done was completely ignore those posts and the interloper would have given up and disappeared on his/her own.

[Foebane]

Originally Posted by Weaselrama

In retrospect, all we would have had to have done was completely ignore those posts and the interloper would have given up and disappeared on his/her own.

In other words: we fed the troll.

[robinsonb5]

Originally Posted by Weaselrama

At times I'm fairly impressed the ability to exchange information gracefully. For example, I belong to a number of FB groups, including a surprisingly large variety of Amiga groups, based on my personal interests:

Yes, I suppose I was being overly cynical in my post - mostly because the rare cases of conflict are the ones that you notice most. Even in the Epic vs. Apple court case going on right now, the judge has used the words "The Court concludes that reasonable minds differ". Those last three words belong on a T-shirt!

It is unfortunate that a wonderful forum like EAB often sees threads which become powderkegs due to conflicting opinions.

Indeed. It's also unfortunate that some of the greatest minds in the Amiga world seem to be attached to some of the shortest tempers!

In retrospect, all we would have had to have done was completely ignore those posts and the interloper would have given up and disappeared on his/her own.

Indeed, hence that old saying about not feeding trolls. But I also have to admit I was following the threads closely! There was a certain tabloid-esque degree of entertainment in watching the drama, however exasperating the disinginuity and deliberate point-missing in the posts might have been!

[Weaselrama]

Originally Posted by robinsonb5

Indeed. It's also unfortunate that some of the greatest minds in the Amiga world seem to be attached to some of the shortest tempers!


Indeed, hence that old saying about not feeding trolls. But I also have to admit I was following the threads closely! There was a certain tabloid-esque degree of entertainment in watching the drama, however exasperating the disinginuity and deliberate point-missing in the posts might have been!

On the first point, I'm often sickened by the personalities that jump all over a contributor because they don't possess the same knowledge, make an innocent remark, missed a line or paragraph in the documentation, and feel their "contributions" to EAB and their "hard work" entitles them to a ridiculous level of immaturity and like the "influencers" I mentioned before, have a cadre of sycophants that suddenly show up to pounce on the less-knowledgeable contributor and behave toward them like the teenage "Linux Administrators" that used to stink up EFNET. Contributing to EAB is voluntary and I get annoyed by those who claim their "time is being wasted" by such innocent noobs or even experienced users who might get it wrong.

On the second point, yeah, you and me both. It was a train wreck that was hard to look away from and I feel a certain satisfaction knowing it was taken care of.

[mcgeezer]

Originally Posted by Weaselrama

In retrospect, all we would have had to have done was completely ignore those posts and the interloper would have given up and disappeared on his/her own.

But, the old saying goes - "if you throw enough shit then some of it sticks. "

Personally, I don't think any of it was handled well. If you get someone coming to an Amiga forum who basically just wants to just slag the platform and its community off then they should be dealt with swiftly.

[Weaselrama]

Originally Posted by mcgeezer

But, the old saying goes - "if you throw enough shit then some of it sticks. "

Personally, I don't think any of it was handled well. If you get someone coming to an Amiga forum who basically just wants to just slag the platform and its community off then they should be dealt with swiftly.

I agree. It was allowed to go on too long I think. One Mod was involved and had locked the thread a few times and the other Mods probably thought that Mod was handling it. Mods have lives too and I think in this instance, the thread fell off the radar.

I have noticed that in the aftermath of a particular issue and the actions of a particular personality, the Mods have been more circumspect and less likely to ban a contributor who wasn't directly breaking the rules. Contributors shouldn't be banned on a whim simply because they have a difference of opinion but a contributor who goes out of their way to piss off other contributors with an obvious axe to grind against the Amiga in language that leaves no doubt of their animosity toward the Amiga and its user-community has no business remaining on a forum like EAB.

[d4rk3lf]

For all I care, he could have stayed as long as he wanted.
We should have just confirm his claims, and throw him bunch of PC graphics like bellow.
-


After short time, he would just leave, because no one "bite"... or no one care...

Not sure why he managed to upset some (very respected) people, neighter I understood the effort some people made to prove him wrong.
From the very start, it was clear he didn't wanted serious discussion, and his goal was just to waste people time.

Not trying to be "smartass", or something... just think that these trolls are easily persuaded to leave, just by not takingf them serious, and making fun of their posts.