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Old 01 July 2017, 18:24   #1
IvanEBC
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Apollo 4060 Installation

Hiya folks

I'm tracking something i bought an dexpect it in a few days. I got it from a guy in Germany and language has been a bit of a barrier, i've been trying to lock down some instructions on the hardware installation.
I've already put on the 46.7 version of the 68060.library for the software side.

On the hardware side, i understand that after i remove the original 3640 card, there should be some jumpers i'll be able to access, do these have a location name? Is it the ONLY jumper underneath that 3640, do i remove the jumper ot is it a 3pin jumper and whatever "2" it is on now, i simply move it to the other "2".

Been googling for pics (would be preferred fo course) and haven't been able to find much on this so would be grateful for some assistance.

Thank you.

PS: Yeah i'm asking for this a few days before its expected arrival but i knew i would have this question and don't want to sit looking at it on my desk while i wait for someone to share their knowledge .. smart thinking hey!
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Old 02 July 2017, 01:25   #2
emufan
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if you compare the image in the german manual with the highres image on resource.cx, you'll see,
they refer to the CLKS jumpers with INT and EXT position.
the jumpers are between Fat Gary and the kickstart roms.

yandex translated you can read:
Quote:
For the Apollo 4040/4060 card both jumpers must put on the Position INT.
on the resource.cx image - if i can trust my eyes - both jumpers are in position EXT.

Last edited by emufan; 02 July 2017 at 01:34.
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Old 02 July 2017, 05:13   #3
IvanEBC
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Yeah, i'm trusting mine, both appear to be in the EXT position, great, then it should be moving those two, install card and i'm hopefully good to go.
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Old 02 July 2017, 14:58   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IvanEBC View Post
Yeah, i'm trusting mine, both appear to be in the EXT position, great, then it should be moving those two, install card and i'm hopefully good to go.
Spot on.
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Old 03 July 2017, 07:12   #5
IvanEBC
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This has been a large failure

I moved the two jumpers - it wouldn't boot into WB after a few attempts with no success, i moved my cf card into winuae and found i actually didn't copy the 68060 library to the libs: yet, opps, i swear i did.

OK, so i used winuae and did that, and moved back to the real stuff.

I have had various results, from a machine that gurus over and over, to once even booting to full WB but then having a software failure, i can't always get the early boot menu, but if i do and am able to boot with no startup - i then try a loadwb -> endcli and i get a very ugly not really functional version of my old WB (though sometimes that gives a software failure).

As much info as i can think of.
The only software i installed is the 68060.library taken from
http://phase5.a1k.org/index.php?driverslibraries
and i installed the latest v 46.7 - i didn't use any other files from the archive and no idea if i need to.

The CPU card has the 3.3v card.
THE CPU Card has 4 jumpers, only 060 and RAM are on (the board is fully populated with 128mb). Nothing attached to the SCSI port.
I've deleted no software or changed to 060 version if supplied (IE i still have hsmathlibs 040 installed) - and was going to update that in a working system, could this be an issue?

I renamed WBStartup so nothing in there would interfere till i at least got a working workbench

Its a desktop 4000, has VA2000, has Bigramplus (removing this didn't help), has 16meg on board. Only a single CF adapter, IDE DVD-Rom.
On OS3.9 and BB1/2 only.

Machine works as i benchtested a few things so i can compare only minutes before changing ti all over.

So i'm looking for hardweare clashes, software clashes, or anything else i may have missed.... my poor girl isn't booting
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Old 03 July 2017, 07:36   #6
hese
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You are using wrong 68060 libraries. Don't use Phase5 libraries for Apollo card.

Download Apollo 68060 files from here:
http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/apollo4060
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Old 03 July 2017, 10:59   #7
IvanEBC
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While that may have worked, i can't do anything as i switch the 4000 on and the HDD light go solid researching that now.

OK, so i disconnected everything. GFX Card, Bigramplus, DVD, CF Card and Floppy. Only left original 16mb inside.

I set the jumpers back and put my A3640 in and after 30-60 seconds, the WB3.1 screen come up asking to insert a floppy.

Remove card, set both jumpers again, put in Apollo, power up, waited 3-4 minutes, still looking at grey screen.

Also note: i grabbed then from Phase 5, as that's what the seller said to do Anywyas, replaced with the ones you said (lucky my Amiga 1200 is functioning fine to DMS that to a floppy
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Old 03 July 2017, 13:57   #8
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BBoAH has some english instructions, jumper settings.
CPU jumper on 4060 is 66 mhz vs 50 mhz 060 - this might be an issue.

i have Cosmos Apollo 68060 library archive/patches version 66.16.
patches only - see below #2)
Cosmos-68060libraryApollo-66.16.lha
Cosmos-68060libraryApollo-66.16.readme
in the zone

#1) dont get me worng, repeating the warning on BBoAh - never run the 4060 without the little voltage regulator

#2) where can i find "68060.library v60.10 (64 632 bytes) - by Zuheir Urwani"
the one you need to use with cosmos patched version?

Last edited by emufan; 03 July 2017 at 17:22.
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Old 03 July 2017, 15:24   #9
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Install only the Apollo library from the Apollo install disk. After installation, you will have a 68040.library, a 68o40.library and a 68060.library.
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Old 03 July 2017, 16:32   #10
IvanEBC
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emufan - yup, jumpers are exactly correct based on that page - thanks for finding that and helping to identify.
NEVER attempted to run without the regulator, so we shoudl be fine there.

OK, massive progress but not quite there.
idrogge, you're the first to say i needed the other two 040/o40 libraries as well, so i copied all three again (overwriting the 060 library) again, and now, she boots up, i get to workbench but i get a software failure with "CON" (error #80000004).
Didn't reach icon stage and mouse is frozen so i can't attempt a suspend.

Much much closer and looking more positive... please keep the thoughts coming, you guys are golden....
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Old 03 July 2017, 16:58   #11
emufan
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sounds good. do you have any system patches installed, fblit, mcp or those things?
in startup-sequence, if so, disable them for now (semicolon infront of them).
verbose mode for startup-sequence can be usefull - first line: set echo on
and disable endcli at the end of ss with ; infront of it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by emufan View Post
#2) where can i find "68060.library v60.10 (64 632 bytes) - by Zuheir Urwani"
the one you need to use with cosmos patched version?
the 68060.library on installer heaven is 60.02 by Urwani.
does anyone got the v60.10? a different disk for apollo?

#1) found it: Apollo-4060-UpDate.DMS with 68060.library v60.10 *zoned*

it's official update, so you can use the new one, instead the one from resource.cx/installer heaven.

#2) hmm, about to apply cosmos patches, spatch still doesnt recognizes the v60.10 library,
but version string says: 68060.library 60.10 (22 Sep 1996 Z.Urwani)

Last edited by emufan; 03 July 2017 at 18:01.
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Old 03 July 2017, 17:41   #12
IvanEBC
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OK, on that link, i use
apollo060.DMS
Should i be using the ApolloInstall-50.dms instead?

OK, i filmed my startup as it go blank after filling the page with text.

Should i post my complete SS and US and maybe a list from WBStartup? Or maybe i've used the wrong disc to get the 060 libs from .. again!

set SCSIupdate 1
if 1 EQ 1
setpatch quiet (pauses here for a bit)
else unset scsiupdate
c:version
c:addbuffers df0:45
failat 21
makedir ram:T ram:clipboards ram:env ram:env/sys
copy envarc ram:env all noreq
resident assign pure
resident execute pure
assign env: ram:env
+ T: + Clips + rexx + keymaps + locale + libs + help (didn't want to write the lot)
binddrivers
c:mount devs:disdrivers/~(#?.info)
c:loadmondrvs

Then it goes blank very quickly.... in this case, i didn't get to workbench, sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't.

In terms of patching.. there was a blitzkick command that i muted before starting this as i didn't know if the Apollo had this feature, and if i did it this command would suffice.

No fblit as it doesn't work with something (i think my VA2000 GFX card) so i never used it. I did patch icon library. I have HS mathlibs unregistered, was going to switch to 060 version and register when i was up and running.
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Old 03 July 2017, 18:04   #13
emufan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IvanEBC View Post
OK, on that link, i use
apollo060.DMS
Should i be using the ApolloInstall-50.dms instead?
join the Zone group - once joined you get new link "the Zone" next to the Log Out "button".
it is a temp file area - on top of the list you find Apollo-4060-UpDate.DMS
this is latest apollo 4060/1260 disk with 60.10 68060.library

copy again all 3 libs to you sys:libs folder, as idrougge said.

for later use download Cosmos-68060libraryApollo-66.16.lha + readme, doesnt work atm, but maybe someone
knows how to apply the patch. but ignore the content for now.

#1) maybe the hsmath libs might be a problem. you can copy the original from original workbench disk,
and replace the ones on your harddrive.
boot without startup-seuqnce, if this feature works, insert workbench 3.1 disk:
copy df0:libs/mathiee#? harddrive:libs/
copy df0:libs/mathtrans.library harddrive:libs/

#2) you can attach ss and us here, append a .txt extension to it so you can attach them in ur next posting.

Last edited by emufan; 03 July 2017 at 18:22.
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Old 04 July 2017, 16:01   #14
IvanEBC
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Sorry for the absence after you guys offered so much help.

I have a resolution but still an issue

Firstly, i have working system with 060.... and its FAST.. i did some small self benchmarks, the most amazing difference was the demos Ikadalawampu that took 6 mins and 55 secs to load on the 25Mhz 040, but a 50Mhz 060 ... well it chewed that that demo in 1 min 25 sec! WOW!

The issues mostly seem to be memory.
I have 16mb fast mem on board the 4000,m like most 4000's i assume.
I have a bigram+ 256mb that's worked wonderful

When i got the VA2000, memory seem to be a big crashy.. the test .. LHA extract something big to memory, she'll freeze up, only with the VA2000 (i discussed it with the maker Lukas and he doesn't know and only hinted at another guy with issues as well, he doesn't have forums so its difficult to push him for his time on this all the .. time.

After getting another 128mb on the Apollo card, i started playing switcharoo and found the lesser amount of MB i used, the more stable the system become, but at 16mb when the system was most stable, none of the 060 demos and games would work as they run out of memory. Or if i had the memory but removed the VA2000, same issue as chip memory, even with 1.7mb free, wasn't enough to run stuff, let alone having such a beast with a 16 colour WB

So right now, the bigram+ is out, only using the systems 16mb and the CPUs 128mb. She is still crashing if i say do something simple like unpack stuff to memory, and a few other small glitches like occasionally it won't boot first time and a reboot will usually get it booting second attempt...... right now, i want to enjoy it a bit and will likely just revisit.

Oh yeah, the HSmathlibs 060 is ON, but no diea if they are activated as it asked lots of questions during install that i can't answer, like how do you wish to launch, i previously used blizkick, but since removing that as i don't know if the apollo is compatible, i randomly clicked another option, loadmodule and got an error, can't find loadmodule, i'm sure i can find it but don't know if this is the best way to do it.

Amiga guys love making great hardware and software, not so much easy to understand instructions

I wrote alot, i'm not spell checking and please forgive me... if you have something to offer, or ask, or check, i'm still here and reading
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Old 04 July 2017, 16:29   #15
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some ram test maybe - i know of diagrom - but i cannot find a disk/adf version , just the rom.
i guess you can try and softkick it using blitzkick?
but there are some more such tools, I just have to dig some more.

loadmodule is on aminet , just copy it in your c: folder an run the hsmath installer again.
it does more or less what blitzkick does.

on resource.cx description you can read:
Quote:
A4000: the card functions better if there's still a 4 MB SIMM on the motherboard
maybe this is somehow relevant - 16MB too much, 4Mb best ?

Last edited by emufan; 04 July 2017 at 16:38.
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Old 04 July 2017, 22:48   #16
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Doubtful. I'd first of all like to hear how the machine runs on a standard 3.1 system without any patches apart from the Apollo libraries.

Beyond that, I would expect that this card has been upgraded from an Apollo 4040 without making sure that the card manages to run at 060 speeds. The tolerances of Apollo cards were very small.

Does the card use MACH131 chips throughout?
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Old 05 July 2017, 05:21   #17
IvanEBC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by idrougge View Post
Doubtful. I'd first of all like to hear how the machine runs on a standard 3.1 system without any patches apart from the Apollo libraries.

Beyond that, I would expect that this card has been upgraded from an Apollo 4040 without making sure that the card manages to run at 060 speeds. The tolerances of Apollo cards were very small.

Does the card use MACH131 chips throughout?
I asked this VERY question I have Photos, i was told it was a pure 060 and not upgraded, though i did find something odd underneath. Here's some piccies Though taken with iphone and not to DigiSLR.
http://users.on.net/~ivanw/Apollo1.JPG
http://users.on.net/~ivanw/Apollo2.JPG

Yes, my machine has been running on 31 for ages, around a year, was only in the past few months that i really started to beef the old girl up, with the 250mb ram, still run fine, OS39, runs fine, 128gbcf card, no problems, the VA2000 did cause some hassles as it was very particular on the order of things getting setup, and is when i noticed things starting to crash. IE unpacking large things to memory, or dopus 4.12 double clicking an icon to investigate its properties would generally lock up the Amiga, i just used workarounds, but it definatley seemed like the VA2000 doing something, not playing nice with other hardware. Still the VA2000 is in active development so i hope it continues to get better and the minor issues right now like the unpacking to ram, well now i unpack direct to drive, or investigate icons via workbench but dopus, and mostly, the system is quite stable.

But what do you think of the soldered joints on the underside where the CPU is seated, looks a little too pro? Maybe normal?
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Old 05 July 2017, 13:37   #18
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I think those surface-mount resistors on the underside of the CPU are normal.
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Old 05 July 2017, 14:11   #19
emufan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by idrougge View Post
I think those surface-mount resistors on the underside of the CPU are normal.
on the backside, 060 pins, are some wires (!?), which you cannot see on resource.cx image.
bboah image: http://bboah.claunia.com/apollo4060.html
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ID:	53664   Click image for larger version

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Last edited by emufan; 05 July 2017 at 15:27.
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Old 05 July 2017, 15:33   #20
IvanEBC
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Than you .. i was actually coming back to mention that, we are talking SMR here, thanks Emufan.

Hey also ...
This puppy runs really hot, nearly scolded myself touching the cpu..... is there a cooling guide, how do you attach the a fan, it didn't come with it. I thought of removing the heatsink from the A3640 (never tried that before) but kinda want to leave a working A3640 alone for backup if required.
I gotta get this baby running cooler, might help with some stability too.
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