So, I Wanna Make A New 68k Amiga Game,... Again

[fishyfish]

Ive decided 2013 is going to be the year I actually finish some sort of game project
Ive started a shedload of bits and pieces, but after a while my attention starts to drift. Time as they say however stops for no-one, so I need to get off my butt and get this short attention span monkey off my back

Okay, then,....

Motivation and enthusiasm,.............. check.

When it comes to ideas however I end up with something akin to writers block. A hundred and one thoughts, but no coherent ideas.
I do like the idea of a remake of maybe an old c64 "classic" thats either not on the Amiga, or has a bad amiga version. Maybe Dan Dare 1 (I was wowed by this back in the day on c64 ), Parallax, iO, Target Renegade, or a bunch of others.
I also however like the idea of making some sort of "lite" rts/c&c style game, soley cos there's not a great deal of them on the amiga, and they could be fun for me to play even if I made it.
However I also like the idea of an overhead jrpg style game, also because theres so few of them, and like the a "lite" rts game the fact there's not a lot of quick moving gfx matches my moderate coding skills
An AGA Dragons Lair remake also kinda appeals to me, and besides a bit of video conversion would be pretty darn simple to make (redistributing it though is obviously tricky)

Anyway, as you see lots of ideas, but nothing that feels solid to me. Perhaps a side effect of having overthought it for too long

Now that Ive got that out of the way I'l get to the crux of the thread.

Basically Im wanting to both:

a). get some ideas as to what people would like to see on the amiga. Now obviously thigs like near perfect street fighter 2 port would be great to have, but as Ive found out a few times, just too much work for one person. Personally I like the idea of something that can have nice graphics, without being too graphics intensive.

b). find people to help with whatever they can help with. Graphics and sound are pretty time consuming, so whatever help I can get there would be great.


Now without even having these things sorted there's also the question of what to target. My personal interest is in my a1200, but if Im going to put the effort in to make a (hopefully) decent game, then having a broader audience is also appealing. So while I'll still target my a1200 making it system friendly also allows for mos and os4x users to play if they choose to.

So if anyone has any ideas to any of the above I'd be interested to hear them. Im eager as mustard, just trying to shake these few "shackles"

[Yakumo9275]

I'm in this boat too. I'm aiming for something 68k based, simpleish, and to be done in C.

I had some thoughts of things like;
- static screen semi iso game in the same vein as last ninja
- remake of elevator action or mix elevator action up with rolling thunder
- faux 3d adventure, same style as the sierra AGI games. Since I wrote the AGI interpreter I have the more knowledge on how these work underneath so would be pretty simple to make.

I've been told C wont cut it.. so we'll see.

[daxb]

I guess the most would like a game that makes fun playing for at least more that one time. What kind of game, difficult. It will default the hardware specs (a plain A1200 or 030+ 16MB+ for example). About gfx/sfx... would it be a problem to use some ready stuff until you find someone doing it?

[Lonewolf10]

Originally Posted by fishyfish

When it comes to ideas however I end up with something akin to writers block. A hundred and one thoughts, but no coherent ideas.

I'd suggest something simple like a platform game, or a sidescrolling shooter, or a pinball game (the hardest part would be realistic ball movement)...

Originally Posted by fishyfish

I also however like the idea of making some sort of "lite" rts/c&c style game, soley cos there's not a great deal of them on the amiga, and they could be fun for me to play even if I made it.

I have thought about this on several occasions... but whilst graphics and map movement would be easy to implement, the all important AI (both movement and CPU opponents actions) would be complicated, CPU and memory intensive and one of the deciding factors on how good/bad the game is.

Originally Posted by fishyfish

However I also like the idea of an overhead jrpg style game, also because theres so few of them, and like the a "lite" rts game the fact there's not a lot of quick moving gfx matches my moderate coding skills

Could be good and certainly not CPU intensive

Originally Posted by fishyfish

b). find people to help with whatever they can help with. Graphics and sound are pretty time consuming, so whatever help I can get there would be great.

I couldn't agree with you more. The game I am working on now is only having sound effects, with no music, and I have slowly been drawing the graphics since October last year.

Originally Posted by fishyfish

So if anyone has any ideas to any of the above I'd be interested to hear them. Im eager as mustard, just trying to shake these few "shackles"

I wish you good luck and can't wait to play whatever you decide to make

[fishyfish]

Ive made a decision (I think).
After nearly driving myself crazy with indecision Ive opted for a remake of the old platform game "Ice Climber". Pretty basic gameplay, but good fun. Given it's simplicity it's also something that might still be fast enough for lower spec 68k machines even if I make it system friendly. It's also something Ive not played to death yet, so Im hoping I'll enjoy playing it as well.
Funny enough it was some friends on irc about a decade ago who made me aware of this game while I was going through similar motions to what I am now (wanna make something, but indecisive).

As for the remake thus far Im thinking more of an spruced up homage than a direct remake, but only time will tell how it pans out

Okay, then, time to get this row on the shoad.....

.....*fires up miggy*....

[commodorejohn]

I'd like to see a good tactical RPG on the Amiga, myself...

[Raislin77it]

i'm also on the mood to create something in c

i've started 2 years ago, stopped and scrapped all, but now i'm in the mood to complete something



we need more game in "C" ( and for non accelerated amigas)

[Yakumo9275]

Originally Posted by fishyfish

Ive made a decision (I think).

whats your development plan. asm, c, e? etc.

[fishyfish]

Blitz is my preferred weapon of choice for 68k amiga

[clownstyle]

Are there any tutorials for making games on the amiga? Would love to have a read.

PS - I'm a complete newbie

[Raislin77it]

Originally Posted by clownstyle

Are there any tutorials for making games on the amiga? Would love to have a read.

PS - I'm a complete newbie

for now the best source i've read (written in c) is from eat the whistle, it use SDL, but there are some parts of the original amiga code.

[fishyfish]

Originally Posted by clownstyle

Are there any tutorials for making games on the amiga? Would love to have a read.

PS - I'm a complete newbie

Depends on what you want to do really. There's plenty of options out there, each with their own resources.

Do you want to make a particular style of game? If so, then you might get away with using a construction kit/game maker like s.e.u.c.k (for vertical shooter games), backbone (for platformers, top down shooters/platform shooters, etc.), G.R.A.A.C/G.R.A.A.L (for point n click adventure games), and others.
While these things are fun, and can be used to make fun games, they all come with their own personal restrictions and problems. Theyre neither as fast, nor as flexible as writing a game from scratch with a programming language, but you may find one that suffices for what youre wanting to do.

Now as for languages, again there's plenty of options, but again it also depends on what you want to do for what is suitable. Plenty of good options, but there's 4 main ones Id recommend.

AMOSPro: Very easy to use, and great fun. It has a reputation for being not very good, but in my opinion its better than its reputation. Personally I think part of the reason for a lot of software made with it being average is that its so easy to use that people who arent great programmers, or havent even learned AMOSPro very well are still able to make software with it. It does have its downsides though, not least of which is the inability to make system friendly software. There is a limited amount of OS friendly compliance, but Id still steer clear of it if you wanted to make something that uses the OS. It's also not the fastest option around when it comes to moving a lot of graphics around, but good enough that its not an issue fr some game styles. Also doesnt officially support AGA, although there's a few things that can be done to give a little AGA fuctionality.

Blitz Basic2.x/Amiblitz: My personal favorite for 68k amiga programming. Despite the "Basic" name in the titles, in practice its more of a blend of basic, c, and ASM. A little steeper learning curve than AMOS (or other BASIC dialects), but easier to learn than things like C or ASM. Completely system friendly, so you can make apps using Intuition, Gadtools, Mui, OGL, even SDL if a person chooses to, but it also comes with a pretty exhaustive collection on non external functionality. Very fast for arcade style gaming as well (in my humble opinion probably 2nd fastest language on the amiga for retro/arcade style games). Main downsides are the lack of object orientation, and lack of portability of code. Given its ability to produce system friendly code however a person can at least wrie software that will also run on OS4, MOS, Amithlon, etc.

C: Arguably the Amiga's "native" language. Great support for pretty much anything a person wants to write. Reasonably quick (given its compiled nature), portable, but with a pretty steep learning curve. This learning curve isnt helped much by needing to learn to use different compilers + associated tools, but for the most part the language itself is pretty universal (assuming ansi compliance, which most compilers are). While there's practical reasons why C would be a good choice, I personally dont find it a lot of fun to code in. If you just want to make a simple game or two to scratch an itch, and have no real use for programming beyond that Im not sure Id go this route. If however programming (and not just for amiga) is something youre interested in you could do far worse. Not only is it portable, but learning C is a bit of an entry into the world of "offshoots" like C++, and C#.

ASM: Closest thing to talking directly to your computer. Also the fastest available option. In the right hands, handcrafted ASM will usually be faster than things like compiled C. Despite it probably being a little more "technical" than C I'd place the learning curve similarly. Unlike C, ASM seems logical from the get go. Personally speaking I think getting a persons head around C is one of the trickier parts. It seems to me very inhuman like logic. I didnt get this with ASM, even if it did take me similar lengths of time to do anything with either. Definiately the way to go if you want to make software specifically for the amiga, with an interest in squeezing as much out of the machine as possible.

Please bare in mind however that this is my personal take on things. Im sure others will disagree, but Ive tried to provide a good over view that gives some "food for thought". Ive also omitted some things so as not to make it confusing, so please, any pedantic people out there, no real need to point out everything straight away as it can just serve to confuse people


Now as for game making itself the principals are much the same regardless of language, system, etc. so there's probably a lot of good "general" resources out there that you could find useful.

[cosmicfrog]

Tower assault plz and no not a remake of the Alien Breed one hehehe
Tower DEFENCE is prob a better name for it
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tower_defense
http://www.flasharcade.com/tower-defence-games.html

could have muit player where you can select diffrent forces to attack with
but I like see a nice 1 player version first

[clownstyle]

Originally Posted by fishyfish

Depends on what you want to do really. There's plenty of options out there, each with their own resources.

Wow, really helpful post fishyfish Thanks for that!

[Jack Burton]

Originally Posted by fishyfish

However I also like the idea of an overhead jrpg style game, also because theres so few of them,

Yes, on the Amiga there are not many of them. Speris Legacy comes to mind. But my favorite is definitely Sendai, this one is a pure masterpiece especially considering it's a one person project. It was heavily inspired by Phantasy Star but managed to be quite original though. You should give it a try if you like these kind of games.

An AGA Dragons Lair remake also kinda appeals to me, and besides a bit of video conversion would be pretty darn simple to make (redistributing it though is obviously tricky)

Dragon's Lair and that kind of games (Dragon's Lair 2, Road Blaster, Time Gal, etc.) should probably be doable on OCS/ECS Amiga with avi4hv to convert the original Laserdisc video sequences to HAM6 video format. That would be nice !


I've also a game project which is an hybrid of jrpg/game of the goose. Last year an Amigan agreed to teach me BlitzBasic coding on an other forum, unfortunately soon after he wasn't seen anymore (life priorities probably calling). So still working on GFX since it's the only thing I can do. And when they will be ready I will probably ask for some help. Some time ago (1 or 2 years ago ?) I heard about an Amiga user that taught Amiga E programming on IRC for those who were interested in game development, if I remember correctly. It could be a good start.

Anyway good luck with your project !

[commodorejohn]

Originally Posted by Jack Burton

Dragon's Lair and that kind of games (Dragon's Lair 2, Road Blaster, Time Gal, etc.) should probably be doable on OCS/ECS Amiga with avi4hv to convert the original Laserdisc video sequences to HAM6 video format. That would be nice !

The big question is whether the floppy disk could keep up the kind of throughput necessary for a good framerate at 47K/frame (not even counting sound!) Either that or you'd have to have load times in between short sequences.

But then, there was an Amiga port of Dragon's Lair already; never played it, though, so I don't know how it compares.

[Jack Burton]

Originally Posted by commodorejohn

The big question is whether the floppy disk could keep up the kind of throughput necessary for a good framerate at 47K/frame (not even counting sound!) Either that or you'd have to have load times in between short sequences.

But then, there was an Amiga port of Dragon's Lair already; never played it, though, so I don't know how it compares.

Yes you're right. The floppy disk is way too slow to keep up a sufficient frame rate of a HAM6 video stream. Actually I was thinking of a HD version. I converted some video that play quite nicely on my unexpanded A600 (~12/15 fps). I had very good results with some cartoons/animes (which is the genre for Laserdisc games as Dragon's Lair).
So it should be technically feasible I think, but it would require a HD/CF indeed.

[fishyfish]

I've already started my Ice Climber game, so Dragon's Lair (or similar) isn't on the immediate cards. For the record however my AGA version idea was conceived with cd32 in mind. While the 300KBps of cd32 cddrive imposes a few restrictions its still somewhat better than the 50ish KBps the ocs/ecs floppy version (which looked pretty decent) allows, not to mention the 2meg ram, which is enough to both work as a "fast" buffer and display the animation/playback audio.
The game code itself would be lucky to occupy 50KB in total.

Really the only reason I've not done at least a few "levels" already is because I dont have the DVD/laser disc. I do have the video files, but they were,... err, "acquired" in a package for Daphne (D/L "emulator"), and theyre somewhat lower quality than the originals, which does reconverting no favors.

[Yakumo9275]

hows ice climber going?

[vitux]

I can not find CONK, is a kit based on Blitzbasic.