NTSC vs PAL

scifi · 26 July 2021, 19:10

Good afternoon everybody!

One simple question: If I buy a NTSC version of a game would it play without a problem in my PAL Amiga system?

I know that the opposite may cause serious trouble...

roondar · 26 July 2021, 19:36

There are timing differences between PAL and NTSC Amiga's. Some software has no problems with that, some has minor issues (music playing incorrectly in games for instance) and some just doesn't work. Difficult to say ahead of time.

But what you could do is try out an ADF version of the NTSC game in WinUAE and set it to PAL to see if it works.

scifi · 26 July 2021, 20:16

I read in a thread here in EAB, about games that produced in USA and how they were supposed to be portrayed in Europe. Many people claimed that NTSC games played in a PAL Amiga won't suffer from any significant effect except that the image would get squeezed to become wider producing black margins up and down of the image displayed. I don't recall any major drawbacks, like games that refuse to play...

nikosidis · 26 July 2021, 20:26

Sound can also be played faster, slower as Paula sync. to the display.
A600, A1200 with OS 3.x you can select PAL or NTSC from early startup-sequence.

There are games that is NTSC that run on PAL at wrong speed, to slow. One of them is "Marble Madness". As you know the Image is wrong aspect. One game that runs normal but only got the aspect wrong if you run in PAL is "Monkey Island"

As the American market became almost nothing everything went PAL on the Amiga. It is early stuff where it can be good to be aware of the problem.

dreadnought · 26 July 2021, 21:02

Generally speaking, most native NTSC games will have better aspect ratio. Some will run faster, which can be a good thing. On the other hand, PAL games forced into NTSC can glitch, run too fast or with just a too fast music. It's a mixed bag really, best just try it yourself as roondar says.

The people who put together MegaAGS image claim to have tested all the games and identified the ones which benefit from NTSC (even not natively). But, for example, they include Lotus in this list, and this game runs faster (which can be bad or good, depnding on a player) and its music is too fast. So, I don't know what to make of it... but I do attach their list I pulled from this image, if anybody's interested.

nikosidis · 26 July 2021, 22:37

Either NTSC games are in correct speed or slower in PAL.
Whd-load even have a parameter in tooltype to set to NTSC mode.
This will not work with old Amiga 500 revisions. I think you must have A500 rev. 6 and up or
A600, A1200, A4000.
Some people run PAL games in NTSC mode so they will be faster.
A lot of old Amiga games have bad FPS so some tend to run them in NTSC as
it will some times seam smoother or more in line with arcade versions.

redblade · 26 July 2021, 23:12

scifi: What Amiga will you be running this NTSC game on? Is it a OCS Amiga? have you tried the cracked .adf first? Normally the crackers also released the NTSC version.

fxgogo · 27 July 2021, 00:37

So I bought a bunch of games in the States in 1991 and took them back to South Africa with me and played them on my PAL Amiga 500. All of them worked and never noticed any timing issues.

TjLaZer · 27 July 2021, 00:48

Yes, they should run fine but of course they will run a little slower and you will have a large black border on the bottom.

Matt_H · 27 July 2021, 01:26

Since this subject keeps coming up:

Degrader. Use options 60Hz and 60HzSystem to turn your PAL Amiga into an NTSC Amiga. Use options 50Hz and 50HzSystem to turn your NTSC Amiga into a PAL Amiga. 99.99% software compatible (genlocks/digitizers probably won't work). You need a 1MB/ECS Agnus or better and compatible video output (i.e., not RF or composite).

klx300r · 27 July 2021, 08:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt_H

Since this subject keeps coming up:

Degrader. Use options 60Hz and 60HzSystem to turn your PAL Amiga into an NTSC Amiga. Use options 50Hz and 50HzSystem to turn your NTSC Amiga into a PAL Amiga. 99.99% software compatible (genlocks/digitizers probably won't work). You need a 1MB/ECS Agnus or better and compatible video output (i.e., not RF or composite).

an oldie but a goodie for sure

I mainly used it to run PAL demos back in the day on my NTSC A500

kremiso · 27 July 2021, 10:05

differently from the console gaming market, the 60Hz option wasn't sufficiently used on the Amiga side, sadly imo.
Part of this choice was surely due to mantain the old kickstarts/ocs legacy, i presume

what if also the ks 1.2/1.3 had had the 50/60 Hz option?

Jope · 27 July 2021, 10:18

So many OCS people couldn't switch to 60Hz in a non-hacky way, so I guess that's what locked us into 256 line + 50Hz games.

scifi · 27 July 2021, 11:11

I guess I should have started by stating my hardware, as redblade has accurately mentioned before.
I am an owner of an OCS A500 (Kickstart 1.2), so from what I have read so far things are not so rosy for me after all.
I could not use the Degrader, so I have to put up with the glitches of using a software that it is meant to be displayed in a 60Hz machine.

Maybe I should follow roondar's advice and try out an ADF version of the NTSC game in WinUAE and set it to PAL to see if it works and how good it performs.

SquawkBox · 30 July 2021, 09:37

Assuming you can copy any given ADF on a blank floppy disk and use it on your OCS A500, most straightforward method to obtain a sneak peek of NTSC timings on your machine : Get the AGA fixed version of Epyx Winter Games by Fix & Foxi and set it to NTSC, then play a few events that way.

Same applies to NOMAD edition of Lotus Esprit Turbo Challenge (1990) (Gremlin) (AGA fix re-release of the Angels & Genesis version), PAL NTSC toggle has been properly implemented, so no need for third party software to boot it in NTSC mode.

26 July 2021, 19:10	#1
scifi Resurrected... Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Athens/Greece Age: 50 Posts: 290	NTSC vs PAL Good afternoon everybody! One simple question: If I buy a NTSC version of a game would it play without a problem in my PAL Amiga system? I know that the opposite may cause serious trouble...

26 July 2021, 20:16	#3
scifi Resurrected... Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Athens/Greece Age: 50 Posts: 290	I read in a thread here in EAB, about games that produced in USA and how they were supposed to be portrayed in Europe. Many people claimed that NTSC games played in a PAL Amiga won't suffer from any significant effect except that the image would get squeezed to become wider producing black margins up and down of the image displayed. I don't recall any major drawbacks, like games that refuse to play... Last edited by scifi; 26 July 2021 at 20:44.

26 July 2021, 20:26	#4
nikosidis Registered User Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: oslo/norway Posts: 1,607	Sound can also be played faster, slower as Paula sync. to the display. A600, A1200 with OS 3.x you can select PAL or NTSC from early startup-sequence. There are games that is NTSC that run on PAL at wrong speed, to slow. One of them is "Marble Madness". As you know the Image is wrong aspect. One game that runs normal but only got the aspect wrong if you run in PAL is "Monkey Island" As the American market became almost nothing everything went PAL on the Amiga. It is early stuff where it can be good to be aware of the problem. Last edited by nikosidis; 26 July 2021 at 20:33.

27 July 2021, 11:11	#14
scifi Resurrected... Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Athens/Greece Age: 50 Posts: 290	I guess I should have started by stating my hardware, as redblade has accurately mentioned before. I am an owner of an OCS A500 (Kickstart 1.2), so from what I have read so far things are not so rosy for me after all. I could not use the Degrader, so I have to put up with the glitches of using a software that it is meant to be displayed in a 60Hz machine. Maybe I should follow roondar's advice and try out an ADF version of the NTSC game in WinUAE and set it to PAL to see if it works and how good it performs. Last edited by scifi; 27 July 2021 at 11:18.

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26 July 2021, 19:36	#2
roondar Registered User Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 3,408	There are timing differences between PAL and NTSC Amiga's. Some software has no problems with that, some has minor issues (music playing incorrectly in games for instance) and some just doesn't work. Difficult to say ahead of time. But what you could do is try out an ADF version of the NTSC game in WinUAE and set it to PAL to see if it works.

26 July 2021, 22:37	#6
nikosidis Registered User Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: oslo/norway Posts: 1,607	Either NTSC games are in correct speed or slower in PAL. Whd-load even have a parameter in tooltype to set to NTSC mode. This will not work with old Amiga 500 revisions. I think you must have A500 rev. 6 and up or A600, A1200, A4000. Some people run PAL games in NTSC mode so they will be faster. A lot of old Amiga games have bad FPS so some tend to run them in NTSC as it will some times seam smoother or more in line with arcade versions.

26 July 2021, 23:12	#7
redblade Zone Friend Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Middle Earth Age: 40 Posts: 2,127	scifi: What Amiga will you be running this NTSC game on? Is it a OCS Amiga? have you tried the cracked .adf first? Normally the crackers also released the NTSC version.

27 July 2021, 00:37	#8
fxgogo Also known as GarethQ Join Date: May 2019 Location: Twickenham / U.K. Posts: 715	So I bought a bunch of games in the States in 1991 and took them back to South Africa with me and played them on my PAL Amiga 500. All of them worked and never noticed any timing issues.

27 July 2021, 00:48	#9
TjLaZer Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Tacoma, WA USA Age: 52 Posts: 1,915	Yes, they should run fine but of course they will run a little slower and you will have a large black border on the bottom.

27 July 2021, 01:26	#10
Matt_H Registered User Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 943	Since this subject keeps coming up: Degrader. Use options 60Hz and 60HzSystem to turn your PAL Amiga into an NTSC Amiga. Use options 50Hz and 50HzSystem to turn your NTSC Amiga into a PAL Amiga. 99.99% software compatible (genlocks/digitizers probably won't work). You need a 1MB/ECS Agnus or better and compatible video output (i.e., not RF or composite).

27 July 2021, 10:05	#12
kremiso Registered User Join Date: Dec 2020 Location: Italy Posts: 1,898	differently from the console gaming market, the 60Hz option wasn't sufficiently used on the Amiga side, sadly imo. Part of this choice was surely due to mantain the old kickstarts/ocs legacy, i presume what if also the ks 1.2/1.3 had had the 50/60 Hz option?

27 July 2021, 10:18	#13
Jope - Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Helsinki / Finland Age: 43 Posts: 9,861	So many OCS people couldn't switch to 60Hz in a non-hacky way, so I guess that's what locked us into 256 line + 50Hz games.

30 July 2021, 09:37	#15
SquawkBox Speedbump gimme goosebump Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: France Age: 50 Posts: 773	Assuming you can copy any given ADF on a blank floppy disk and use it on your OCS A500, most straightforward method to obtain a sneak peek of NTSC timings on your machine : Get the AGA fixed version of Epyx Winter Games by Fix & Foxi and set it to NTSC, then play a few events that way. Same applies to NOMAD edition of Lotus Esprit Turbo Challenge (1990) (Gremlin) (AGA fix re-release of the Angels & Genesis version), PAL NTSC toggle has been properly implemented, so no need for third party software to boot it in NTSC mode.

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