Using HDF files in Kickstart 1.3

I have problem with using more than one HDF files in Kickstart 1.3.

I am using:
WinUAE 1.4.4 (In Windows VISTA)
Kickstart 1.3
Workbench 1.3.3


I have search this forum and find out that I need to copy the file FastFileSystem in the "l" folder from a WB 1.3 diskette to my local PC. I have done that and assigned it to WinUAE in the proper way. (In the field FileSys when adding a hardfile)

I have created a HDF file in WinUAE and assigned it to DH0. I also done some tests and find out that you need to format the harddisk
using kickstart 2.x or 3.x. When formating you must thick the box "Fast File System (FFS)", and make shore NOT to thick the "International mode" box.

If I do all this and start WinUAE with kickstart 1.3, the HDF file nicely shows up as a harddisk icon in the workbench. I can even boot from the HDF file if I copy WB 1.3 files to DH0.
(I read someplace on this forum that its not possible to boot from a HDF file using kickstart 1.3. But it seems to work in WinUAE 1.4.4)

The problem is that I can only have one harddisk this way (as HDF file). If I assigns two or more HDF files, only the first one show up as a icon in the workbench. If I use a directory from my local PC as a Amiga hardisk, I can have as many harddisks i want. They all show up as icons in the workbench.

I found out a way to get at least two HDF files to be visible in the workbench. If I format the drive in Kickstart 2.x or 3.x and ticking the box "international mode", the drive will be incompatible with kickstart 1.3.
I then assigns two HDF files to WinUAE. One that I has format as it should be, WITHOUT ticking the "international mode" box (DH0). And one that I have format the wrong way, TICKING the "international mode" box (DH1).

Now, when booting kickstart 1.3 (Using a WB 1.3 diskette as boot), as expected only DH0 is visible. However, if you go into CLI and type "info", the DH1 is listed under "Mounted Disks", but not under "Volumes Available". Under "Mounted Disks" I can see that the status of DH1 is "Validating".
Now I type (in the CLI window):
Format DRIVE DH1: Name test FFS QUICK
When the formating is done, I type "INFO" once again and now the DH1 is listed both under "Mounted Disks" and under "Volumes Available". I close the CLI window and now booth DH0 and DH1 is visible in the workbench.

I now reboot WinUAE and only the DH0 is visible in the workbench. If i remove DH0 from WinUAE settings and boot with only DH1, DH1 is visible in the workbench.

And now, finally, my question:
Is it possible to have more than one HDF file to automatically bee mounted when booting kickstart 1.3? Perhaps editing the file MountList in some way?

I mean, you can have as many harddisks as you want if they are directories on the local PC. And now when support for zip files:
Two zip files containing a harddisk each will work and
Two hdo files containing a harddisk each will NOT work?

Is it possible?

[Toni Wilen]

KS 1.3 non-RDB hardfile support is a hack. Multiple regular hardfiles should work but it can have side-effects and bugs.. I'll check later this week..

[YoJoe!]

So if he makes all his hardfiles as "RDB Hardfiles" then they will work?

I tried to click the "Enable RDB mode" button in WinUAE, but then I couldn't see the harddisk at all. I have read about HDToolBox, but can't find it anywhere in WB 1.3 or WB 1.3 Extras. If I use "RDB mode" should I use "HDToolBox"? And where can I find HDToolBox, and perhaps a "How to use" guide?

OK, I found HDToolBox in WB 3.1 and find out how it worked.
HDToolBox is the tool to use when handling "RDB hardfiles"

With kickstart 3.1 I managed to add two harddisk this way (IDE0 and IDE1). When I tried to add a third one, it was not seen by HDToolBox. Only the two first harddisks was in the list.

To create a harddisk with FFS i needed to copy the file FastFileSystem from WB 1.3 to the corresponding folder in WB 3.1.

I created a FFS partition with the HDToolBox and format it to FFS in WB 3.1.
(Booth in HDToolBox and when formating you need to assign FFS to the harddisk-file). This HDF file did not work at all in kickstart 1.3. I assigned it as IDE0, but there was no trace of it at all in kickstart 1.3

[Toni Wilen]

Only first HDF mounting is fixed in 1.4.5b5.

With kickstart 3.1 I managed to add two harddisk this way (IDE0 and IDE1). When I tried to add a third one, it was not seen by HDToolBox. Only the two first harddisks was in the list.

Use "UAE" HD controller. Only use IDEx if you want to emulate A600/A1200/A4000 IDE hardware including all its hardware and driver software limitations

Now it is working! Now I can have more then one HDF file in KS 1.3!
Thanks for the update!

However there seems to bee a memoryleak or something. When using the emulator, after a while, text editing stop working. When you type something on the keyboard, suddenly only garbage characters shows up.
This applies for everyplace where you can input text. For example in CLI and when renaming things. This happens after about 30 min of working. It happens faster if you working with diskettes. (Inserting and ejecting).
It can also happen if you have two CLI windows open at the same time.


About RDB-mode with HDF files

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

KS 1.3 non-RDB hardfile support is a hack.

Does this mean that RDB hardfiles can work in KS 1.3? How do you partition the harddisk? Is there any tool that works in KS 1.3?

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

Use "UAE" HD controller. Only use IDEx if you want to emulate A600/A1200/A4000 IDE hardware including all its hardware and driver software limitations

But if you use "UAE" you cant use HDToolBox. Without HDToolBox you cant create any partitions on the harddisk. There need to be at least one partition, otherwise you cant use the HDF file as a harddisk in WinUAE.
Are there any other methods of preparing HDF files, if you want to use RDB-mode?

[Toni Wilen]

Originally Posted by DalaMicke

However there seems to bee a memoryleak or something. When using the emulator, after a while, text editing stop working. When you type something on the keyboard, suddenly only garbage characters shows up.

Perhaps virus or some background utility corrupting memory.

Does this mean that RDB hardfiles can work in KS 1.3? How do you partition the harddisk? Is there any tool that works in KS 1.3?

But if you use "UAE" you cant use HDToolBox. Without HDToolBox you cant create any partitions on the harddisk. There need to be at least one partition, otherwise you cant use the HDF file as a harddisk in WinUAE.
Are there any other methods of preparing HDF files, if you want to use RDB-mode?

They do work but old versions of hdtoolbox only supports scsi.device (UAE's "scsi.device" is uaehf.device) Newer versions (OS2 or 3) support device command line parameter and tooltype. for example "hdtoolbox uaehf.device" works (as long as hdtoolbox is new enough)

Lots of discussion about hdtoolbox in this forum, just search

[thomas]

How do you partition the harddisk? Is there any tool that works in KS 1.3?

HDToolbox of Workbench 2.1 works on Kick 1.3 and there is HDInstTool on Aminet which works on Kick 1.3, too.

But if you use "UAE" you cant use HDToolBox.

You can use HDToolbox, you just have to tell it to look for uaehf.device instead of scsi.device. Either adjust the tooltypes or run HDToolbox from the Shell/CLI with the driver name as an argument. That's the same with all third-party HDD controllers, not an issue of WinUAE.

Thanks Tony and thomas! Now I am able to manage RDB hardfiles in all kickstarts. Downloaded HDInstTool from Aminet and it works perfectly. Many thanks for the information and update.

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

Perhaps virus or some background utility corrupting memory.

But this only happen in the new beta releases!

Try this:
Using WinUAE 1.4.5.b6
Using KS 1.3
Using WB 1.3.3
Have WB installed on a HDF file.

First boot without a diskette. Open a CLI window - You can type as normal.
Then press F12 to insert a diskette. Click OK. Open a CLI window - You can type as normal.
Then remove the diskette. Open a CLI window - Now when you type letters only garbage shows up on the screen.
This will not be the case in WinUAE 1.4.4.0

The same thing happened once in WB 3.1, when I have been working for about 30 minutes. It was not in a CLI window, it was when renaming a file.
While experimenting with HDF files I used WinUAE quite a lot. Booth WB 1.3.3 and WB 3.1. And this happened from time to time. The only fix was to restart WinUAE. I then returned back to WinUAE 1.4.4.0 and the problem disappear. In WinUAE 1.4.4.0 I have never experience this error.

I know you not suppose to mix HD tools, but according to HDInstTools documentation, you can mix HDToolBox and HDInstTools.
So I did some test using booth HDToolBox (from WB 2.1) and HDInstTools (6.9).
I noticed some difference between WinUAE 1.4.3 and WinUAE 1.4.4 regarding these tools.

My configuration:
Kickstart 1.3
Workbench 1.3.3
HDToolBox from WB 2.1 - with uaehf.device
HDInstTools 6.9 - with uaehf.device
Two HDF files in RDB mode. (Each HDF containing only one partition)

I am booting from HDF file 1 and using HDF file 2 only for storing files.
In booth WinUAE 1.4.3 and 1.4.4 the system is booting fine and shows the two harddisks in workbench.

In WinUAE 1.4.3 I can see only one harddisk if I use HDToolBox. HDInstTools show me booth harddisks.
In WinUAE 1.4.4 I can see only one harddisk if I use HDInstTools. HDToolBox show me booth harddisks.

The other way around in 1.4.4. I guess the two tools works a little bit different. Are there any settings
in 1.4.4 that make booth HDInstTools and HDToolBox to display all harddisks in the system?

[Toni Wilen]

Originally Posted by DalaMicke

In WinUAE 1.4.3 I can see only one harddisk if I use HDToolBox. HDInstTools show me booth harddisks.
In WinUAE 1.4.4 I can see only one harddisk if I use HDInstTools. HDToolBox show me booth harddisks.

Workaround: make sure all hardfiles are at the top of harddrive list (No directory harddrives between them) EDIT: except this may not work depending how the program enumerates the drives..

HDToolBox: stops enumerating if device returns IOERR_OPENFAIL. Continues if returns HFERR_NoBoard.

HDInstTools: stops enumerating if device returns HFERR_NoBoard. Continues if returns IOERR_OPENFAIL.

I decided HDToolBox does the right thing but it still is lose-lose situation

[mark_k]

Originally Posted by DalaMicke

To create a harddisk with FFS i needed to copy the file FastFileSystem from WB 1.3 to the corresponding folder in WB 3.1.

FastFileSystem 40.1 (on the OS 3.1 Install disk) works with Kickstart 1.2/1.3. Since it is faster and less buggy than the one which comes with Workbench 1.3, and might even allow you to access "international" FFS volumes, installing that version in the RDB is preferable to 1.3 version.

Later FFS versions (from at least the beta 40.4) no longer work with Kickstart 1.x