Green Beret for Amiga

[jotd]

- blue soldiers only fire one shot, some even retreat after this shot. This is following feedback pointing out that some soldiers were firing repeatedly until they succeed in hitting the player. Limiting them to one shot makes the game's difficulty level way more manageable.

You took away this unfairness that's very well done!!

Small story about the timeout jet: when they did the home conversions they were only provided with the arcade machine in free play mode and they had to figure it all out. They weren't aware of this timeout until someone left the player too long at the start.

[TCD]

Just had a very quick go at this and it's pretty good Played Green Beret quite often on the C64 and later a bit in MAME and this conversion is really decent

[zzbylu]

and small gameplay: [ Show youtube player ]

[nikosidis]

Great job and thanks for the update.

[solaris104]

Thanks :-). Please unify the font "THIS GAME IS FREE ..." on the title screen in the next update.

[merman]

Great update. As I said on Twitter, I had been playing Green Beret for years before I discovered the jet.

[Aarbron]

Originally Posted by jotd

You took away this unfairness that's very well done!!

Small story about the timeout jet: when they did the home conversions they were only provided with the arcade machine in free play mode and they had to figure it all out. They weren't aware of this timeout until someone left the player too long at the start.

Thanks, everyone!

That was a very interesting story, Jotd.
Also, the jet isn't in the NES sprite sheets, and I'm used to the Speccy version but never saw it there as well. Nathan on Twitter commented that he'll try to get the jet to spawn in the Speccy version.

So, the confirmed jets are in arcade, C64 and Amiga at the moment.

Next steps, I may do v1.1 which will cover some remaining user feedback.

[A500]

Thank you for improving the game even more!

[Nishicorn]

Does Amiga really NEED Green Beret?

Does every game have to be ported to every platform, so no platform has anything unique about them anymore? Can't we enjoy something on the original platform, and then something else on some other platform?

This 'conversion' mania is really getting out of hand, we don't need everything converted everywhere. Let's just enjoy things where they are.

If you are going to 'convert' something, why do it in the most boring way possible? Why not add some personality and something of your own? Make new levels, different graphics (not necessarily 'better'), utilize the platform's strengths and add a copperslide for the Amiga port and cool live synth sound for the C64-port (Falcon Patrol games are good examples of how to utilize a live synth right - the sound LIVES with the action of the game), and create something beautiful of your own.

Then again, you could just make your OWN game and just create something really, really good without caring whether someone else has done something similar or not - if you are excited about your project and are honest about it, it will show.

These 'conversions' seem like uncreative ways to gain ego points to me; sure, it's lots of work and hard to do right, but in the end, it's making something that already exists, and even if you do perfect justice to it, it's just going to be 'something everyone has already seen and experienced'. A perfect port of an old game is just the same old game someone has already played, without the original, wonderful 1980s atmosphere that the original actually has.

Look at Prince of Persia to see what I mean; there are wonderful 'diversions from the path' - Atari ST-version added some weird colors (didn't quite work, but it's at least something), Mac version made everything cartoony in a higher resolution (looks dumb and boring, but at least it's something), Super Famicom version added new levels, different cutscenes and pictures, more complexity and visual beauty to the levels, different colors and 'textures', made the rock formations more interestng and so on and so forth.

(Super Famicom-version is probably the 'optimal' version, but to me, the Amiga-version is the most nostalgic version).

This particular game suffers visually from 'repetitive rocks', so some versions tried to make it more interesting, but it's really the original game design that's at fault (the original Apple II-version doesn't look that good in my opinion), they didn't think that through. After all, it was designed by a programmer that's also a drug user (admittedly!).

Someone decided to make a 'C64-port' - it's not a REAL C64-port, because you can't play it on a normal system that most people had at the time, you need a special cart version for memory requirements and all (perhaps they sell it as a cart that works on a real C64, I am not sure). So although I can play it on my real C64 because I happen to have devices that make it work, back in the 1980s, it wouldn't have been possible to play it on a real C64, so it's not a true port.

Putting all that aside, its rocks are mis-aligned, so they look horrible, and they're as stock and as boring as possible - NOTHING new was attempted. It's as paint-by-the-numbers, soulless 'conversion' as possible, from the Amiga version, which is the simplest-looking version after the Apple II original.

This means that although the version is competent, there's nothing about it that would make anyone want to play THAT exact version. They didn't DARE do anything of their own that would've added personality to it, which is an insult to the C64, whose versions of games historically have always had great, big personality. Commando has amazing music the arcade version doesn't have, Bomb Jack has wonderful playability and energy, and its music is better than the arcade version again, Kung-Fu master improved the arcade's weirdly (I can't draw but I made the sprites anyway)-style graphics (and punching sound, weirdly enough), International Karate and Way of the Exploding Fist are really amazing versions of 'Karate Champ', and so on and so forth.

Why couldn't the C64-port of Prince of Persia reflect this history AT ALL? Not even slightly different-shaped or -looking rocks that would have actually aligned as well as the Amiga version's? Even in the Amiga version, some rocks are a bit different shade (but it's still dull, as most of the screen is just rocks - they should've done something about that from the get-go).

So when you think of this kind of 'let's convert some old arcade game to some other platform'-stuff, think of Super Famicom's (or even just Atari ST's) Prince of Persia, and see how it can be done right, by adding your own personality and imagination to it and thus actually enhancing it. Forget about resolutions and color amounts, polygons and textures - focus on just making everything as beautiful and gorgeous as you can and add your best and most imaginative self to it.

Just 'directly porting' something in a soulless way just to clone something into another platform, in my opinion, is just unimaginative, uncreative people with time on their hands saying "HEY, look at me because I copied some NOSTALGIC stuff you feel strong emotions about, to a platform you love and give me kudos for it!!1".

It's an ego-trip, a shortcut to gaining a lot of attention and appreciation for exploiting other people's property and creativity because you don't have any yourself, or you don't trust your own visions and creations.

This makes it questionable and despisable in my opinion, and that's why I don't really like people doing it. If you are going to do it, do it with some STYLE! (As the Doc once said in a movie)

Just look at all the different versions of Prince of Persia and see what CAN be done (and you can do MORE!), before starting your 'conversion of something you know will gain you kudos points automatically because of its name'-project.

Please.

Otherwise, it's just a VANITY PROJECT.

[VincentGR]

After many years of suffering bad ports or non-existing games, finally we have justice for the Amiga.
Great games for a great platform, it's about the sport that someone can finally do it.
As a bonus, we can also enjoy them.
I remember the dark years when we only had tetris clones on aminet, now the scene is alive, so we must be thankful for that.

All opinions matter though.

[jotd]

Just 'directly porting' something in a soulless way just to clone something into another platform, in my opinion, is just unimaginative, uncreative people with time on their hands saying "HEY, look at me because I copied some NOSTALGIC stuff you feel strong emotions about, to a platform you love and give me kudos for it!!1".

you totally described me. Note that if you create a completely original game, you will still need people to boost your ego about it.

One of the reasons I'm doing 1:1 arcade ports is that I lack imagination, graphical skills and ideas. Also those games are just perfect.

Before I decided (and realized I had the skills) to do that (with invaluable help from WinUAE creator and a lot of people here at eab like ross, meynaf, roondar, others I can't remember right now + all the testers...), I was trying to create an arcade-perfect list of games for amiga. Not arcade perfect but almost... Like Pang, Toki, Double Dragon II, and others I forget, my aim was to get a kind of "Amiga MAME" database. Now I can even contribute to that database.

I totally agree on the part where we should add a "personal touch" to things, but in case of arcade classics, it often ends up as "not as good as the original". Specially for games like Pacman, Amidar, Scramble (check out the amiga "conversions"...) where the graphics are hard to improve without going all 32 colors & backgrounds and then you kind of lose the feeling IMHO.

The challenge for me is to port a game in the easiest way possible, using modern tools, amiga capabilities like sprites, dual playfield, and I learned a lot in the process. For instance, I can fix issues in games (in whdload) that I could never have fixed before.

One thing McGeezer did when he ported Rygar was to add more levels (IIRC, as I can't play that one right).

In a previous Gods (and also Magic Pockets) remake I did for modern platforms (check https://jotd.pagesperso-orange.fr/gods/), I added colors to items (to overcome the terrible 16 color limit) and also new levels. That was very cool and I loved the fact that you could play the original with colors that the game makers would have probably used if they weren't as limited, and also explore new contents (something that the Steam remake doesn't have... same for Chaos Engine...)

So I agree with some points you're making, but for the arcade classics I don't. If you check them in any virtual console or NDS or PSX compilation, they're 100% the same because people expect them to be like that.

(you're going to read a lot of "me" and "I" in that text not because of ego but because of me (sorry) sharing personal experience. I (sorry) can't speak for others like McGeezer or Dante)

[Predseda]

Galahad made a Starquake port, that is 1:1 ST conversion, plus has added original music and graphical intro. Is it something you had in mind, Nishicorn?

[jotd]

for those who like classics ported with a twist check Luca Carminati page

https://lowcarb.itch.io/

most are C64 or PC but the games are great.

[Mixel]

Originally Posted by Nishicorn

Does Amiga really NEED Green Beret?

Do you need to be so negative?

Does every game have to be ported to every platform, so no platform has anything unique about them anymore? Can't we enjoy something on the original platform, and then something else on some other platform?

This would make sense as a critique if Aarbron hadn't added a bunch of the best features of both the NES and Arcade versions? It also makes no sense on a retro forum for Amiga users who may not have, or may not WANT to have the other platforms. Everyone here is already making a strange platform choice, all bets are off as to what people want to do with their Amigas.

If you are going to 'convert' something, why do it in the most boring way possible? Why not add some personality and something of your own? Make new levels, different graphics (not necessarily 'better'), utilize the platform's strengths and add a copperslide for the Amiga port and cool

This port has copper skies? It also uses all the sprites and stuff to keep things fast? And remaking all the NES music isn't exactly trivial? This is far from being as boring a way as possible.

Then again, you could just make your OWN game and just create something really, really good without caring whether someone else has done something similar or not - if you are excited about your project and are honest about it, it will show.

Aarbron has been working on original projects too..

Just 'directly porting' something in a soulless way just to clone something into another platform, in my opinion, is just unimaginative, uncreative people with time on their hands saying "HEY, look at me because I copied some NOSTALGIC stuff you feel strong emotions about, to a platform you love and give me kudos for it!!1".

It's an ego-trip, a shortcut to gaining a lot of attention and appreciation for exploiting other people's property and creativity because you don't have any yourself, or you don't trust your own visions and creations.

This is infuriating, haha. Programming itself can be creative. Coming up with solutions to problems can be creative. How much do you think "ego points" are actually worth? ALL retro gamedev is a labour of love. A few people leaving forum/youtube comments saying they love a game, before moving onto the next thing, and an occasional article on IRN is not actually enough to either bolster someone's ego or fuel the development of a game, lol. This is not some useful currency. Those of us making games are making them because it's fun.. So when someone comes along with the express goal of shitting in a creator's cornflakes, you're not helping. You're definintely not increasing the chances of devs wanting to invest time making games for the community.

Aarbron doesn't need defending here lol I'm not rushing to his defence, I'm just saying it, in principle, for anyone doing ports.. Shortly after an entire GameJam *for* ports, there is nothing wrong with ports.

Aaaanyway in this particular case, GB and his other ports - they're also incredibly useful.. Not just to Aarbron, who's making his games in a new, rapidly evolving, undocumented game dev suite, but to all us other Scorpion devs too, who can see his, and others projects and learn a ton from them. They also result in earok doing a bunch of optimistations and fixes because the more games in different styles are made in Scorpion, the more the engines limits are tested, and the more it improves.

Why are ports more suitable than big original games? Because already extant games have a) assets to use already (even adapting gfx/audio is a ton of work, making them from scratch takes a VERY long time) b) A cemented design. Anyone starting a big original project in Scorpion, will likely have to keep circling back to improve or change things they've already made to keep up with the awesome new stuff Erik adds.. Working on ports in the meantime makes a ton of sense as the target is static. Even UltraNarwhal's Duckstroma, which seems like it'll be one of the first 100% completed original Scorpion games, is a port of his earlier 8 bit versions, which gives him a nice static target.

This makes it questionable and despisable in my opinion, and that's why I don't really like people doing it. If you are going to do it, do it with some STYLE! (As the Doc once said in a movie)

That's just like, your opinion man.. "Despisable" just shows a total disrespect for people's time and efforts, as well as just.. Why?

Otherwise, it's just a VANITY PROJECT.

People say useful things about games that are a known quantity, you can get useful crit, because they've played the originals so know what it's supposed to be like. What harm does some people getting kudos for a port do anyone? People wouldn't be leaving those comments if they didn't appreciate the work.

If you want devs to invest the huge amount of time it takes to make entirely original games.. Support devs.

edit: Sorry y'all.. Did it again.. Wall of text, LOL

[nikosidis]

Whatever people decide to do for Amiga it is welcome.
Port a game is one thing but doing a game from scratch is a big project. At least if you want it to be good.
I love that Green Beret or any arcade classic get a port to Amiga. That way I can play it on a retro computer on a CRT screen.
Also good to remember that arcade ports is what often sold Amigas.
Everyone dreamed about playing the arcade games at home.
Now we see some conversions that would have sold like crazy back in the day.

If you like to show your Amiga to a friend that know little about retro computers it is nothing better than to show some classic arcade game running on it.

[Predseda]

To be honest, if I was able to make a perfect port of a game, I still would not resist a temptation to imprint a part of myself into it. At least something small

[Estrayk]

Originally Posted by Nishicorn

Does Amiga really NEED Green Beret?

Yes, thank you very much for your post.

[nikosidis]

I played the latest version yesterday on my A1200 with CRT.
Nothing I can complain about.
The music, sfx is very good.
Thanks

[nikosidis]

I noticed something.
When using the knife it stabs the enemy facing wrong direction.
Is that correct?

[Anubis]

Originally Posted by jotd

for those who like classics ported with a twist check Luca Carminati page

https://lowcarb.itch.io/

most are C64 or PC but the games are great.

Thank you for link. Will check those.