Vsync Bug?

ancalimon · 07 March 2009, 02:11

When I enable Fullscreen+vsync mode, I still get screen tearing for example when moving windows in WB. (especially in a 50hz mode) But when I switch to Full window mode (on Vista and only with Aero enabled) I don't get screen tearing anymore but I get a noticeable lag. It's like this with any version I tried including the latest betas.

Leffmann · 07 March 2009, 10:43

You can only get a smooth and correct display without tearing if the vertical syncs of your emulated display and your physical screen coincide, i.e the refresh rate of your screen is a multiple of the effective refresh rate on your emulated display, such as running the standard PAL display on a 50 or 100Hz screen, or the standard NTSC display on a 60 or 120Hz screen.

ancalimon · 08 March 2009, 20:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leffmann

You can only get a smooth and correct display without tearing if the vertical syncs of your emulated display and your physical screen coincide, i.e the refresh rate of your screen is a multiple of the effective refresh rate on your emulated display, such as running the standard PAL display on a 50 or 100Hz screen, or the standard NTSC display on a 60 or 120Hz screen.

Yes I can get smooth scrolling using a 50hz screen. But screen tearing dissappears only and only if I use the Full-window mode and Vista is set to use Aero. What is the magic with Aero that makes screen tearing disappear (both in native and P96 screens)

Toni Wilen · 08 March 2009, 20:24

Fullscreen should be tripple buffered automatically. Possible reason: Display driver issue, weird filter settings, weird settings in windows display control panel (if it has custom control panel) etc..

ancalimon · 08 March 2009, 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

Fullscreen should be tripple buffered automatically. Possible reason: Display driver issue, weird filter settings, weird settings in windows display control panel (if it has custom control panel) etc..

I have an ati x1900 and using the latest catalyst driver from ati homepage. Other than that I haven't changed anything.

ancalimon · 09 March 2009, 03:13

I'm getting random total freezes when using the vsync option rtg and native.

NoX1911 · 24 May 2009, 00:32

Doesn't work here on my Radeon 9700 Catalyst 9.3 neither with 1.6.0.0.
'Fullscreen+Vsync' on 100Hz is worse than normal 'Fullscreen' mode at 50Hz cap. The weird thing is WinUAE sometimes runs at 50Hz and sometimes at 100Hz (double speed) whereas the latter mode seems to be vsynced (but too fast) and the 50Hz speed clearly is not synced.

Anyone getting it to work with ati cards?

Edit:
WinUAE v1.4.6 is working properly with vsync. All following versions are broken here.

A500 Quickstart template (+on-screen leds, +fullscreen+vsync, 800x600x32 100Hz)
XPSP3
Ati Catalyst 9.3

ancalimon · 26 November 2009, 20:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoX1911

WinUAE v1.4.6 is working properly with vsync. All following versions are broken here.

Is this still valid?

Toni Wilen · 26 November 2009, 20:34

Works fine here as usual ("all are broken" isn't a bug report either, I guess I ignored it)

EDIT: I guess everyone ignored this, no replies at all. So either nobody uses vsync or it works or nobody cares.

100Hz+ is not supported until there are real 100Hz LCD displays.

NoX1911 · 26 November 2009, 22:17

I've tested Winuae20beta22 and vsync is working properly here with 50Hz/100Hz/720x576/NullFilter on Win7.

@Toni:
1) What do you mean by '100Hz+ is not supported'? You don't enumerate (and provide/offer all) resolutions and refreshrates from display driver?
2) If i use the above settings (Fullscreen/720x576/50Hz/NullFilter) what API is used? Direct3D or GDI? DWM/Aero is disabled (when pressing F12).
3) If Filter/Direct3D is selected and i press F12 the winuae window is somewhat laggy and has a trailing black box when moved. Shouldn't Direct3D be much smoother than NullFilter (GDI?) on Vista/Win7?

Maren · 26 November 2009, 22:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by ancalimon

When I enable Fullscreen+vsync mode, I still get screen tearing for example when moving windows in WB. (especially in a 50hz mode) But when I switch to Full window mode (on Vista and only with Aero enabled) I don't get screen tearing anymore but I get a noticeable lag. It's like this with any version I tried including the latest betas.

In this case of seemingly broken vsync controls, the noticeable lag is probably what's stopping tearing from happening.

All I can say is that I never run WinUAE without vsync and it syncs perfectly to both 50hz and 100hz (I always use 50hz though, no need for me to go higher than that unless it a NTSC application, and then I just switch to 60hz)

ATI drivers are a stinkin pile of garbage anyways, consider yourself lucky anything runs at all

ancalimon · 26 November 2009, 23:42

Sorry. I booted with no startup-sequence, disabled jit and vysnc works perfectly now using 50hz. It seems like starting whdload games from my Amikit installation was causing the crackling sound and skipping frames.

Toni Wilen · 27 November 2009, 08:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoX1911

I've tested Winuae20beta22 and vsync is working properly here with 50Hz/100Hz/720x576/NullFilter on Win7.

@Toni:
1) What do you mean by '100Hz+ is not supported'? You don't enumerate (and provide/offer all) resolutions and refreshrates from display driver?

It means I don't know if 100Hz "simulate" 50Hz by showing one frame twice work.

Quote:

2) If i use the above settings (Fullscreen/720x576/50Hz/NullFilter) what API is used? Direct3D or GDI? DWM/Aero is disabled (when pressing F12).

Fullscreen always disables aero. DirectDraw or Direct3D if D3D filter used.

Quote:

3) If Filter/Direct3D is selected and i press F12 the winuae window is somewhat laggy and has a trailing black box when moved. Shouldn't Direct3D be much smoother than NullFilter (GDI?) on Vista/Win7?

Normal Windows GUI elements + D3D fullscreen = slow GUI performance. Probably never meant to be used that way..

Toni Wilen · 27 November 2009, 08:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by ancalimon

Sorry. I booted with no startup-sequence, disabled jit and vysnc works perfectly now using 50hz. It seems like starting whdload games from my Amikit installation was causing the crackling sound and skipping frames.

JIT is always a problem when it is about timing..

NoX1911 · 27 November 2009, 09:35

Will you go for Direct2D since DDraw is dead (as of DX10)?

Edit: Not sure about 'dead'

Toni Wilen · 27 November 2009, 10:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoX1911

Will you go for Direct2D since DDraw is dead (as of DX10)?

Edit: Not sure about 'dead'

Depracated since ages ago but not dead.

DirectDraw: for PCs without powerful enough 3D card.
D3D: new recommended mode (will be default mode when RTG is updated for D3D)

afaik D2D is meant for font rendering and other GUI stuff. Using Direct3D for 2D stuff is really easy.

07 March 2009, 02:11	#1
ancalimon Supernormal Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Istanbul / Turkey Age: 43 Posts: 1,410	Vsync Bug? When I enable Fullscreen+vsync mode, I still get screen tearing for example when moving windows in WB. (especially in a 50hz mode) But when I switch to Full window mode (on Vista and only with Aero enabled) I don't get screen tearing anymore but I get a noticeable lag. It's like this with any version I tried including the latest betas.

24 May 2009, 00:32	#7
NoX1911 2064 Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: de Posts: 231	Doesn't work here on my Radeon 9700 Catalyst 9.3 neither with 1.6.0.0. 'Fullscreen+Vsync' on 100Hz is worse than normal 'Fullscreen' mode at 50Hz cap. The weird thing is WinUAE sometimes runs at 50Hz and sometimes at 100Hz (double speed) whereas the latter mode seems to be vsynced (but too fast) and the 50Hz speed clearly is not synced. Anyone getting it to work with ati cards? Edit: WinUAE v1.4.6 is working properly with vsync. All following versions are broken here. A500 Quickstart template (+on-screen leds, +fullscreen+vsync, 800x600x32 100Hz) XPSP3 Ati Catalyst 9.3 Last edited by NoX1911; 24 May 2009 at 01:04.

26 November 2009, 20:34	#9
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,505	Works fine here as usual ("all are broken" isn't a bug report either, I guess I ignored it) EDIT: I guess everyone ignored this, no replies at all. So either nobody uses vsync or it works or nobody cares. 100Hz+ is not supported until there are real 100Hz LCD displays. Last edited by Toni Wilen; 26 November 2009 at 20:43.

27 November 2009, 09:35	#15
NoX1911 2064 Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: de Posts: 231	Will you go for Direct2D since DDraw is dead (as of DX10)? Edit: Not sure about 'dead' Last edited by NoX1911; 27 November 2009 at 09:42.

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07 March 2009, 10:43	#2
Leffmann Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,269	You can only get a smooth and correct display without tearing if the vertical syncs of your emulated display and your physical screen coincide, i.e the refresh rate of your screen is a multiple of the effective refresh rate on your emulated display, such as running the standard PAL display on a 50 or 100Hz screen, or the standard NTSC display on a 60 or 120Hz screen.

08 March 2009, 20:24	#4
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,505	Fullscreen should be tripple buffered automatically. Possible reason: Display driver issue, weird filter settings, weird settings in windows display control panel (if it has custom control panel) etc..

09 March 2009, 03:13	#6
ancalimon Supernormal Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Istanbul / Turkey Age: 43 Posts: 1,410	I'm getting random total freezes when using the vsync option rtg and native.

26 November 2009, 22:17	#10
NoX1911 2064 Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: de Posts: 231	I've tested Winuae20beta22 and vsync is working properly here with 50Hz/100Hz/720x576/NullFilter on Win7. @Toni: 1) What do you mean by '100Hz+ is not supported'? You don't enumerate (and provide/offer all) resolutions and refreshrates from display driver? 2) If i use the above settings (Fullscreen/720x576/50Hz/NullFilter) what API is used? Direct3D or GDI? DWM/Aero is disabled (when pressing F12). 3) If Filter/Direct3D is selected and i press F12 the winuae window is somewhat laggy and has a trailing black box when moved. Shouldn't Direct3D be much smoother than NullFilter (GDI?) on Vista/Win7?

26 November 2009, 23:42	#12
ancalimon Supernormal Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Istanbul / Turkey Age: 43 Posts: 1,410	Sorry. I booted with no startup-sequence, disabled jit and vysnc works perfectly now using 50hz. It seems like starting whdload games from my Amikit installation was causing the crackling sound and skipping frames.

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