Sound channels switched?

bLAZER · 22 February 2010, 20:56

I discovered that a couple of games seem to have their ssound channels switched:

Over the Net (1990)(Genias)
and Archon (bot 1 and 2 as I remember)

Tried both adf and WHDLoad version of Over the Net and it would be more normal to play the ball sound in the left channel when it's on the left players side and right channel for the right players' side, however it's the opposite. The same in Archon, when shooting, the bullet sound travels from right to left speaker when it travels from left to right on the screen. So is this a WinUAE bug or is this the same on a real Amiga?

rsn8887 · 23 February 2010, 08:18

I can confirm this. Yes in Archon on the real Amiga right corresponds to right and left to left, but on WinUAE it is swapped.

It might be a little bug that stayed in WinUAE for a long time.

I also tested using the game SWIV on A500 quickstart. In SWIV on the real Amiga, sounds on the left of the screen come out of the left speaker and vice versa, but on WinUAE, again, sound channels are swapped. So I think they are always swapped, not just on certain games.

I just set the swap audio channels option in the GUI to Paula to correct for it for now...

Toni Wilen · 23 February 2010, 09:45

They were swapped in 0.9x because it was confirmed broken at that time.

I am not going to anything anymore without more informatin than "it works on real Amiga" (there is much more than Amiga that can have effect on sound..)

thomas · 23 February 2010, 14:39

Quote:

on the real Amiga right corresponds to right and left to left

"the real Amiga" is ambiguous as there were differences. I know that on my A500 and my A4000 channels 1+4 are left and channels 2+3 are right. But I remember the discussion Toni mentioned where people said on their Amigas it was swapped.

BTW, there is a "swap channels" option in WinUAE, why don't you use it ?

Toni Wilen · 23 February 2010, 14:51

Paula only have 2 analog output lines, 1+4 and 2+3 mixing happens inside Paula.

Perhaps there are real bug(s), differences between Amiga models, scart adapters with swapped channels, any kind of bad wiring, was never fully tested with stereo output.. Too many possibilies.

-> I want much more information this time before I do any changes

thomas · 23 February 2010, 16:00

Quote:

Perhaps there are real bug(s), differences between Amiga models, scart adapters with swapped channels, any kind of bad wiring,

... or wrong colors. On my Amigas right channel is white and left channel is red. Usually right should be red and left should be white or black.

bLAZER · 23 February 2010, 19:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomas

BTW, there is a "swap channels" option in WinUAE, why don't you use it ?

Sure, I was just checking what was going on, if it was a bug in WinUAE or not... but it doesn't seem so then.

Toni Wilen · 23 February 2010, 19:48

It still can be a bug but I am waiting for better test program

bLAZER · 23 February 2010, 23:29

Aha... and what kind of program would that be?

ceztko · 24 February 2010, 01:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by bLAZER

Aha... and what kind of program would that be?

Document any inconsistency by testing on a real amiga and providing a reliable recording (be careful with wiring). Just in case, take a picture of RCA connectors of your amiga

rsn8887 · 24 February 2010, 01:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomas

BTW, there is a "swap channels" option in WinUAE, why don't you use it ?

uhm

As I said in the post you were quoting, I am using that option!

Quote:

Originally Posted by bLAZER

Aha... and what kind of program would that be?

I suppose maybe one such "program" could be:
- get stock A500 and a copy of Archon or SWIV.
- hook it up to stereo, making sure red is connected to red and white to white on the audio connection.
- verify that speakers are positioned correctly and not swapped.
- check if the sound of monsters on the right side of the screen comes out of the right speaker

I remember distinctly that it worked like that on my old original A500 with an original copy of Archon, and same with Swiv.

If enough people test it, we might be able to nail it. Maybe it really varies from model to model?

PowerPie5000 · 24 February 2010, 02:20

Well i can confirm Swiv and Archon sound exactly the same on my A500, A600 and my A1200... left is left and right is right

Both the A600 and A1200 have the white socket for left audio and red socket for right audio... but both sockets on my A500 are red

(looking from the back the left port is right channel and the right port is left channel

).

A500 board is rev 5
A600 board is rev 1.5
A1200 board is rev 1D1

I have no idea if the channels are any different for the A1000, A2000, A3000 and A4000

pmc · 24 February 2010, 11:18

According to the HRM: audio channels 0 & 3 == left side stereo jack and audio channels 1 & 2 == right side stero jack.

Is it not better to just go by the HRM for this or am I missing the point...?

thomas · 24 February 2010, 11:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by pmc

According to the HRM: audio channels 0 & 3 == left side stereo jack and audio channels 1 & 2 == right side stero jack.

Is it not better to just go by the HRM for this or am I missing the point...?

I already mentioned: there are inconsistencies in descriptions and hardware.

Channels 0 & 3 are connected to the red jack which is located on the right when looking from the back and 1 & 3 are connected to the white jack which is located right when looking from the front.

Users can get confused by the misleading colors. And users usually don't read the HRM.

Photon · 25 February 2010, 17:44

One test could be to use 'the right version of Protracker' <-- as I remember at least one of them (I forget which one) has the channel tracks in the order LLRR instead of LRRL as already mentioned. The A1200 numpad-patched version 2.3D, and V3.15 both from Aminet are correct and can be used for testing on your real Amiga(s).

I agree with everything Thomas has said in this thread.

If you happen to have a special Amiga (Paula) model in your room that play one or two games with swapped channels, eeehhh I'm all for correct emulation of all Amigas, but I'm also against special case coding/patching, and this is on the borderline to 'utterly unimportant'...

Toni Wilen · 27 February 2010, 13:28

I wrote stupid audio channel testing program. (attached).

It plays short "sample" from address zero, rotates all channels until left mouse button is pressed. Must be run in CLI.

It seems channels really are reversed but I still won't do any changes until someone finds/remembers the reason for 0.9.2 channel "fix".. (EDIT: it was 1.0.0b1)

Toni Wilen · 21 March 2010, 12:37

It is a bug but it wasn't that simple bug..

Channels are only swapped if stereo separation or stereo delay is enabled.

hexaae · 30 September 2014, 12:46

Also Bubba'n'Stix is affected (WinUAE 2.6.1/2.8.1)...

Toni Wilen · 01 October 2014, 15:12

Yes? "affected" means what? It makes no difference what program is running.. and this was fixed ages ago..

hexaae · 02 October 2014, 19:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

Yes? "affected" means what? It makes no difference what program is running.. and this was fixed ages ago..

That I hear the stereo audio channels reversed when Stereo Separation is set (I use 50%)... If you say it was fixed, maybe it's the game buggy by itself?

Bubba'n'Stix WHD: http://www.whdownload.com/games.php?...hButton=Search

22 February 2010, 20:56	#1
bLAZER Awesome to the max Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Gothenburg / Sweden Age: 47 Posts: 1,006	Sound channels switched? I discovered that a couple of games seem to have their ssound channels switched: Over the Net (1990)(Genias) and Archon (bot 1 and 2 as I remember) Tried both adf and WHDLoad version of Over the Net and it would be more normal to play the ball sound in the left channel when it's on the left players side and right channel for the right players' side, however it's the opposite. The same in Archon, when shooting, the bullet sound travels from right to left speaker when it travels from left to right on the screen. So is this a WinUAE bug or is this the same on a real Amiga?

24 February 2010, 02:20	#12
PowerPie5000 Miggy Ate My Hamster! Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Lancashire, UK Posts: 1,566	Well i can confirm Swiv and Archon sound exactly the same on my A500, A600 and my A1200... left is left and right is right Both the A600 and A1200 have the white socket for left audio and red socket for right audio... but both sockets on my A500 are red (looking from the back the left port is right channel and the right port is left channel ). A500 board is rev 5 A600 board is rev 1.5 A1200 board is rev 1D1 I have no idea if the channels are any different for the A1000, A2000, A3000 and A4000 Last edited by PowerPie5000; 24 February 2010 at 16:43.

30 September 2014, 12:46	#18
hexaae Bug hunter Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Italy Age: 48 Posts: 2,161	Also Bubba'n'Stix is affected (WinUAE 2.6.1/2.8.1)... Last edited by hexaae; 30 September 2014 at 12:53.

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23 February 2010, 08:18	#2
rsn8887 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: USA Posts: 1,058	I can confirm this. Yes in Archon on the real Amiga right corresponds to right and left to left, but on WinUAE it is swapped. It might be a little bug that stayed in WinUAE for a long time. I also tested using the game SWIV on A500 quickstart. In SWIV on the real Amiga, sounds on the left of the screen come out of the left speaker and vice versa, but on WinUAE, again, sound channels are swapped. So I think they are always swapped, not just on certain games. I just set the swap audio channels option in the GUI to Paula to correct for it for now...

23 February 2010, 09:45	#3
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,505	They were swapped in 0.9x because it was confirmed broken at that time. I am not going to anything anymore without more informatin than "it works on real Amiga" (there is much more than Amiga that can have effect on sound..)

23 February 2010, 14:51	#5
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,505	Paula only have 2 analog output lines, 1+4 and 2+3 mixing happens inside Paula. Perhaps there are real bug(s), differences between Amiga models, scart adapters with swapped channels, any kind of bad wiring, was never fully tested with stereo output.. Too many possibilies. -> I want much more information this time before I do any changes

23 February 2010, 19:48	#8
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,505	It still can be a bug but I am waiting for better test program

23 February 2010, 23:29	#9
bLAZER Awesome to the max Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Gothenburg / Sweden Age: 47 Posts: 1,006	Aha... and what kind of program would that be?

24 February 2010, 11:18	#13
pmc gone Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: completely gone Posts: 1,596	According to the HRM: audio channels 0 & 3 == left side stereo jack and audio channels 1 & 2 == right side stero jack. Is it not better to just go by the HRM for this or am I missing the point...?

25 February 2010, 17:44	#15
Photon Moderator Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Eksjö / Sweden Posts: 5,602	One test could be to use 'the right version of Protracker' <-- as I remember at least one of them (I forget which one) has the channel tracks in the order LLRR instead of LRRL as already mentioned. The A1200 numpad-patched version 2.3D, and V3.15 both from Aminet are correct and can be used for testing on your real Amiga(s). I agree with everything Thomas has said in this thread. If you happen to have a special Amiga (Paula) model in your room that play one or two games with swapped channels, eeehhh I'm all for correct emulation of all Amigas, but I'm also against special case coding/patching, and this is on the borderline to 'utterly unimportant'...

21 March 2010, 12:37	#17
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,505	It is a bug but it wasn't that simple bug.. Channels are only swapped if stereo separation or stereo delay is enabled.

01 October 2014, 15:12	#19
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,505	Yes? "affected" means what? It makes no difference what program is running.. and this was fixed ages ago..

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