Gayle Adapter/PCMCIA Problems - A1200

[rabidgerry]

Hi all,

I previously have enjoyed using my PCMCIA slot without issues since I started back with Amigas. I can plug it in at anytime, boot with it inserted, anything at all without issue with the cardpatch and card reset lines in my startup-sequence.

However recently I bagged a Amiga kit 4XIDE INTERFACE and FASTIDE A1200 ADAPTER and I have been enjoying a nice boosted transfer rate with my setup. The adapter, like many other gayle adapters is supposed to fix pcmcia reset problem etc etc.

But now I am having problems with my PCMCIA slot.

When I boot with the card in the slot, I do not see it in my workbench and I have to unplug, and re-plug the card back into my Amiga 1200. Then I can go into the card briefly and see the contents within. However not long after if say I was to go into Dopus or something and try transfer something from the CF card in my PCMCIA slot the card will seemingly drop off again. Selecting in Dopus will give me the prompt to insert the card back into the pcmcia slot even though it is already inserted. Sometimes it will freeze the system when I try to transfer files, other times it might allow one transfer before giving me the same message again to insert the card.

Either way it's working as it should and I'm wondering has anyone else ever experienced this type of problem before?

Things I have tried:

reseat the adapter
clean the contacts with contact cleaner
remove the lines for card patch and card reset from the startup-sequence

Don't really know what else to do here. I only got the adapter and interface for the transfer speed but I can't live without pcmcia transfer even though there are alternatives to this.

Can't ask Amigakit for help as I bought the adapter and interface 2nd hand.

[rabidgerry]

Originally Posted by Boing-Ball

Adding something extra to your setup may require more power. Are you using a good enough PSU? Is it a lightweight 25watt version by chance? You may need a power boost with a 60watt version or similar as what you describe is a lack of power and you’re hitting limits. Have had something similar with the Elbox FASTATA 4 way adapters and having to use a better PSU.

I have this power supply - Meanwell RT-50B.

You think this would be under powered still?

50 watts
5v - 4 Amp
12v - 2 Amp
-12v - 0.5 Amp

I have a TF1260 in there, 4XIDE INTERFACE + FASTIDE A1200 ADAPTER and CF adapter and little 12v fan.

That is everything extra in my system.

[rabidgerry]

Originally Posted by Boing-Ball

Should be enough… But have read some of these Meanwell PSU’s can be hit or miss. Have you measured the power outputs with a multimeter?

Oh really? I hadn't heard that before. I thought Meanwell's were dead on, hence my choice I was about to try buying a 65watt version as it ill fit right in to my already modified Amiga PSU casing.

Well I tested like this

https://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=103781

Originally Posted by Boing-Ball

So you have a TF1260? So why not use the TF1260 IDE? Isn’t it EHIDE.device that initialises it? You should get 11MB/sec on a HDD.

Well I did use this for a while, but it's in awkward spot for my cf adapter which is fitted behind the floppy disk drive. I was also suspect that it was a little shaky with my system. I could have been paranoid about that, but the main physical issue stops me from using it again with the custom roms I had with ehide in there.

I never got 11MB/sec I got like 4mbps. Which was aright.

I wonder is there anyways to eliminate the power supply issue? Can I remove some stuff and see if I have the same issue? Trouble is what to remove?

[rabidgerry]

Originally Posted by Boing-Ball

You need a basic setup with the TF1260 removed to start with….

Do you think an 8mb card be ok to use instead? I can't load my current workbench without some memory. It wouldn't load properly without some fast ram.

[Jope]

A 4MB card would be ok, an 8MB one will conflict. Your card can probably be configured to 4MB, check its jumpers.

[rabidgerry]

Originally Posted by Jope

A 4MB card would be ok, an 8MB one will conflict. Your card can probably be configured to 4MB, check its jumpers.

Yeah it's an AmiteK Hawk so it can be configured. This afternoon the PCMCIA lot has worked for the most part. But I did witness it earlier, just drop off and reappear again later by itself.

[rabidgerry]

Well it was a nightmare trying to work with a 020 and only 4mb of ram but for the most part the PCMCIA slot seemed to be working ok albeit an age to do anything.

I also use an Apollo 1240 today and that seemed to have no issues with the PCMCIA slot also. So perhaps the combo of TF1260 and the interface and adapter are just too much? It's still hard to tell I guess. I didn't expect the Apollo card to NOT have the same problem. But it let me transfer, open and close to my hearts content. Might the Apollo card use less power? I dunno.

May be next step is to actually try a new power supply I'm not experienced or smart enough to know if this is the issue.

[rabidgerry]

Originally Posted by Boing-Ball

The Apollo 1240 (68040) requires a good 5Volts. The 68060 only requires 3Volts. Maybe not power but compatibility with the TF. New firmware for the TF needed perhaps?

I honestly would not be in a position to say. I suppose it could be. In which case I am shit out of luck again when it comes to bettering the disk access. Had crazy times with two different fast ata's also. Thought this would be much simpler as no rom chips involved.

[rabidgerry]

Originally Posted by Boing-Ball

I always stick to the classic accelerators as for the fact newer stuff to me is always in Beta testing…. If you are into that sort of thing… Then fine… But I still prefer a good Phase 5 or DCE accelerator these days…

To be fair, a lot of my Fast ATA trials were with the my solid as a rock Apollo 1260 but I could not get those to work for very long at all and ended up with corrupt cf drives multiple times.

I'm going to change back over to the TF1260 again and just see what happens.

[Kin Hell]

Normally, PCMCIA issues are when using 8Mb Fast Ram expansions. I would be guessing you have more than 8Mb on the Apollo card & guessing 128Mb on the TF1260.

Are any timing fixes required for your A1200 Mobo?

Or is it as timing fix allowing your Apollo to work that might be causing the issue?

http://ianstedman.co.uk/amiga-relate...erboard-fixes/

As Boing-Ball points out, a newer firmware on your TF1260 may address the issue. - Not sure where to hang out for support info though, sry.

[Daedalus]

Indeed, the FastATA is notoriously flaky, regardless of whether it's used with a new or old accelerator.

8MB or more of RAM isn't a problem when the accelerator maps it to Zorro-III space - it's only RAM-only boards and the most basic accelerators that use the Zorro-II space that conflicts with the PCMCIA port, and even with that, the conflict is avoided by Kickstart 3.1 and 3.2, which simply disable the PCMCIA port altogether in such cases.

Support for the TF1260 can be found at the Exxos forum. The current firmware has been available for a good while now and there aren't any recent fixes that I'm aware of. There's a utility you can use to see the firmware version (reported as the serial number). The latest firmware will report serial 1000. Every Amiga is different, but FWIW my 1260 has absolutely no problems using the PCMCIA port, and that's regardless of power supply too.

Mean-Well-based units are generally pretty good, but there can be issues. The popularity of Mean-Well modules above many other similarly-capable industrial PSU modules has given rise to the wonderful phenomenon that is counterfeiting. It's known that there are imitation Mean-Well units out there and possible genuine rejects too, so if someone decided to save a couple of quid by buying them from a less reputable source, then there's a small chance it's a counterfeit or reject unit. The second issue is that they typically output exactly 5V, which ends up being significantly less than 5V by the time it reaches the chips. Some models do have an adjustment to compensate for this, the RT-50B is one of them. Standard Commodore PSUs typically output a little over 5V to compensate for this effect.

And, while the original Commodore PSUs are often pointed at, if it's in good condition it should easily be able to power such a setup. A bare A1200 takes less than 10W, leaving plenty to power accessories even with the 25W model. Of course some PSUs have deteriorated over the years, but my experience has been that they are better than people give them credit for.

[rabidgerry]

Originally Posted by Kin Hell

Normally, PCMCIA issues are when using 8Mb Fast Ram expansions. I would be guessing you have more than 8Mb on the Apollo card & guessing 128Mb on the TF1260.

Are any timing fixes required for your A1200 Mobo?

Or is it as timing fix allowing your Apollo to work that might be causing the issue?

http://ianstedman.co.uk/amiga-relate...erboard-fixes/

As Boing-Ball points out, a newer firmware on your TF1260 may address the issue. - Not sure where to hang out for support info though, sry.

Yeah 64mb on the Apollo 1260, 16mb on the Apollo 1240 and 128mb on the TF1260.


Ok so I think about timing fixes from time to time and I always back out simply because in general, I have stability using those cards. Someone else advised me once, if you cards run ok then just leave the timing fixes. And they do run ok. But obiously this new issue is after getting a gayle adapter and Ide interface. Might they be affected by timing fixes? If they are then I'll consider doing them (again) as it is within my capability (just about).

I've run the Apollo1260 the longest and without issue. Super reliable. So I left it. Also there is so much conflicting info about these fixes. I was happy with just removing a few caps, but then some like on Steady's page say add some extra components in depending on your card then it gets a bit "well what if I change card at some point" as I have already done.

Originally Posted by Daedalus

Indeed, the FastATA is notoriously flaky, regardless of whether it's used with a new or old accelerator.

8MB or more of RAM isn't a problem when the accelerator maps it to Zorro-III space - it's only RAM-only boards and the most basic accelerators that use the Zorro-II space that conflicts with the PCMCIA port, and even with that, the conflict is avoided by Kickstart 3.1 and 3.2, which simply disable the PCMCIA port altogether in such cases.

Support for the TF1260 can be found at the Exxos forum. The current firmware has been available for a good while now and there aren't any recent fixes that I'm aware of. There's a utility you can use to see the firmware version (reported as the serial number). The latest firmware will report serial 1000. Every Amiga is different, but FWIW my 1260 has absolutely no problems using the PCMCIA port, and that's regardless of power supply too.

Mean-Well-based units are generally pretty good, but there can be issues. The popularity of Mean-Well modules above many other similarly-capable industrial PSU modules has given rise to the wonderful phenomenon that is counterfeiting. It's known that there are imitation Mean-Well units out there and possible genuine rejects too, so if someone decided to save a couple of quid by buying them from a less reputable source, then there's a small chance it's a counterfeit or reject unit. The second issue is that they typically output exactly 5V, which ends up being significantly less than 5V by the time it reaches the chips. Some models do have an adjustment to compensate for this, the RT-50B is one of them. Standard Commodore PSUs typically output a little over 5V to compensate for this effect.

And, while the original Commodore PSUs are often pointed at, if it's in good condition it should easily be able to power such a setup. A bare A1200 takes less than 10W, leaving plenty to power accessories even with the 25W model. Of course some PSUs have deteriorated over the years, but my experience has been that they are better than people give them credit for.

I'm definitely on the latest TF1260 firmware as Supaduper sorted that for me before he posted it to me on initial purchase.

Just to be clear, I have no issues with the TF1260 and my PCMCIA port (in 3.1 I need card reset and car patch in startup) and I enjoy the hot swapping capability and no issues at all on transfer or system lockups. So the issue has only started happening since I got the IDEx4 and fast gayle adapter. To make matter worse, it's sporadic. The worst kind of fault.

As for Fast ATA. The horrors! Yeah I dunno, just none ever worked for me, not for long. And the defo corrupted cards on me which then lead me down a garden path of thinking I'd a virus etc. Pure madness. I even tried them again after installing new rom sockets on my A1200, turned pin type (proud I was able to do that btw ). But yeah, I'm done with them.

Regarding the Meanwell. I thought it was a good PSU, I certainly read it had enough power, but then I really don't know enough. It transplanted nice and easy into an original casing for me and I been using for a few years now. Should I upgrade to a 65watter? In my limited knowledge, 65watts seems way more than enough, but then this is all down to the fact if this is a PSU issue or not or if my mother board just doesn't like the combo of additions.

[Kin Hell]

Originally Posted by rabidgerry

Yeah 64mb on the Apollo 1260, 16mb on the Apollo 1240 and 128mb on the TF1260.


Ok so I think about timing fixes from time to time and I always back out simply because in general, I have stability using those cards. Someone else advised me once, if you cards run ok then just leave the timing fixes. And they do run ok. But obiously this new issue is after getting a gayle adapter and Ide interface. Might they be affected by timing fixes? If they are then I'll consider doing them (again) as it is within my capability (just about).

I've run the Apollo1260 the longest and without issue. Super reliable. So I left it. Also there is so much conflicting info about these fixes. I was happy with just removing a few caps, but then some like on Steady's page say add some extra components in depending on your card then it gets a bit "well what if I change card at some point" as I have already done.




I'm definitely on the latest TF1260 firmware as Supaduper sorted that for me before he posted it to me on initial purchase.

Just to be clear, I have no issues with the TF1260 and my PCMCIA port (in 3.1 I need card reset and car patch in startup) and I enjoy the hot swapping capability and no issues at all on transfer or system lockups. So the issue has only started happening since I got the IDEx4 and fast gayle adapter. To make matter worse, it's sporadic. The worst kind of fault.

As for Fast ATA. The horrors! Yeah I dunno, just none ever worked for me, not for long. And the defo corrupted cards on me which then lead me down a garden path of thinking I'd a virus etc. Pure madness. I even tried them again after installing new rom sockets on my A1200, turned pin type (proud I was able to do that btw ). But yeah, I'm done with them.

Regarding the Meanwell. I thought it was a good PSU, I certainly read it had enough power, but then I really don't know enough. It transplanted nice and easy into an original casing for me and I been using for a few years now. Should I upgrade to a 65watter? In my limited knowledge, 65watts seems way more than enough, but then this is all down to the fact if this is a PSU issue or not or if my mother board just doesn't like the combo of additions.

Two trials of an Elbox FastATA (years apart) in an Amiga 1200 has always been an Epic Fail for me.

I use a DKB 1240 Card. Technically, it calls itself a Typhoon under 3.2 system info, but I've removed the 40Mhz 040 & fitted a 50Mhz Ceramic Part & Ceramic 50Mhz 68882 FPU, effectively making it a Mongoose variant.

AmigaKit's Buffered 4 way adapter & Gayle PCMCIA part also simply refused to work for me. They reckoned it was my DKB's ROM SCSI causing the issue, so I saw no performance gain, in fact slower performance without the PCMCI Fix connected & the adapter set in PIO mode.
I don't have the actual SCSI controller card for this CPU Board btw.

In an effort to try & fix the A1200's crap onboard IDE, AmigaKit sold me an Elbox FastATA in order to satisfy my lust for more speed & that was simply no go in any manner. Even bust a leg off my 3.1.4 Hi ROM for arsing around trying to get it to work. That too had it's ass RMA'd.

4Mb/Sec on the TF1260 isn't a bad speed at all. Be interesting to see what you'd get with some UDMA6/7 CF Media hooked up to it. I get nearly 2Mb/sec from a 1GB Microdrive, yet only 672,xxx on CF Media capable of 160Mb/s on a PC? - Industrial SanDisk CF5000 parts gave me nearly 2Mb/s & they got roasted recently for 5v on the IDE cable going to ground.
I was not a happy bunny for several weeks over that loss & thought I'd killed the Mongoose. Thankfully, for reflowing the X-Tals, I put some magic smoke back into her but my 3.2 ROM's are definitely toast!

Perhaps more trials of different combo's will help you decide to keep the Buffered 4 Way & Gayle adapter or RMA it's ass. If you had absolutely no conflicts before fitting it, I'd send it back for refund & leave alone.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

[Daedalus]

Originally Posted by rabidgerry

Someone else advised me once, if you cards run ok then just leave the timing fixes. And they do run ok. But obiously this new issue is after getting a gayle adapter and Ide interface. Might they be affected by timing fixes? If they are then I'll consider doing them (again) as it is within my capability (just about).

Well, there's always the possibility that the timing fixes are indeed causing issues. The TF1260 has very tight motherboard timings, and given that the IDE speeder also functions by tightening timings, it's possible that there's some sort of issue there where they're occasionally treading on one another's toes, and cleaning up the relevant clock might be enough to keep them apart. But I've not come across this issue personally, so that's just speculation.

Just to be clear, I have no issues with the TF1260 and my PCMCIA port (in 3.1 I need card reset and car patch in startup) and I enjoy the hot swapping capability and no issues at all on transfer or system lockups. So the issue has only started happening since I got the IDEx4 and fast gayle adapter. To make matter worse, it's sporadic. The worst kind of fault.

Yeah, always the way. But that's what makes me think it's about the tight timing, possibly just two devices collectively shaving a little too much off the accesses. I don't think TerribleFire has one of those IDE speeders (and might not be all that interested in acquiring one) so getting to the bottom of it might be tricky.

Regarding the Meanwell. I thought it was a good PSU, I certainly read it had enough power, but then I really don't know enough. It transplanted nice and easy into an original casing for me and I been using for a few years now. Should I upgrade to a 65watter? In my limited knowledge, 65watts seems way more than enough, but then this is all down to the fact if this is a PSU issue or not or if my mother board just doesn't like the combo of additions.

Don't get me wrong, Mean-Well units *are* good quality PSUs that I've used in industrial equipment for years without any issues (along with Traco, Artesyn and others). And 50W is more than enough for your setup, so upgrading is unlikely to fix the issue. It would be interesting to see what the 5V rail measures within the system, e.g. at the floppy power port on the motherboard, to see if it's sagging due to losses in the cable and connector.

One last thing to mention is that the ripple spec of the RT-50B is outside the Commodore spec. Generally, that shouldn't be an issue, and when I've measured these units, the ripple is far better than that in normal use (probably because they're not typically used at the limits of their capacity), and I've never had any issues with hardware not liking it. But I would say that's a clutching-at-straws suggestion anyway, and upgrading to the RT-65B is unlikely to help if that is the issue either.

[rabidgerry]

Originally Posted by Kin Hell

Two trials of an Elbox FastATA (years apart) in an Amiga 1200 has always been an Epic Fail for me.

I use a DKB 1240 Card. Technically, it calls itself a Typhoon under 3.2 system info, but I've removed the 40Mhz 040 & fitted a 50Mhz Ceramic Part & Ceramic 50Mhz 68882 FPU, effectively making it a Mongoose variant.

AmigaKit's Buffered 4 way adapter & Gayle PCMCIA part also simply refused to work for me. They reckoned it was my DKB's ROM SCSI causing the issue, so I saw no performance gain, in fact slower performance without the PCMCI Fix connected & the adapter set in PIO mode.
I don't have the actual SCSI controller card for this CPU Board btw.

In an effort to try & fix the A1200's crap onboard IDE, AmigaKit sold me an Elbox FastATA in order to satisfy my lust for more speed & that was simply no go in any manner. Even bust a leg off my 3.1.4 Hi ROM for arsing around trying to get it to work. That too had it's ass RMA'd.

4Mb/Sec on the TF1260 isn't a bad speed at all. Be interesting to see what you'd get with some UDMA6/7 CF Media hooked up to it. I get nearly 2Mb/sec from a 1GB Microdrive, yet only 672,xxx on CF Media capable of 160Mb/s on a PC? - Industrial SanDisk CF5000 parts gave me nearly 2Mb/s & they got roasted recently for 5v on the IDE cable going to ground.
I was not a happy bunny for several weeks over that loss & thought I'd killed the Mongoose. Thankfully, for reflowing the X-Tals, I put some magic smoke back into her but my 3.2 ROM's are definitely toast!

Perhaps more trials of different combo's will help you decide to keep the Buffered 4 Way & Gayle adapter or RMA it's ass. If you had absolutely no conflicts before fitting it, I'd send it back for refund & leave alone.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

I actually get just over 2mb/s so without anything else than IDEfix driver installed and my TF1260. I'm just being greedy and mad. You know what it's like? Constant tinkering being an Amiga person

Alas I bought the 4xIDE and Gayle adapter of ebay for £50. So might have to flog it.

Originally Posted by Daedalus

Well, there's always the possibility that the timing fixes are indeed causing issues. The TF1260 has very tight motherboard timings, and given that the IDE speeder also functions by tightening timings, it's possible that there's some sort of issue there where they're occasionally treading on one another's toes, and cleaning up the relevant clock might be enough to keep them apart. But I've not come across this issue personally, so that's just speculation.

It might be worth a shot. It's very sporadic. I mean I put it all back to normal again yesterday and have the TF1260 in there now and it didn't seem to have any issues.

If I do these fixes, can I just remove the caps? Or do I now have to source a few components to replace those I take out? Conflicting info out there, some say remove and that's it, some don't.

I'll be installing an S-video board soon so might be a good opportunity to do it then.

Originally Posted by Daedalus

Yeah, always the way. But that's what makes me think it's about the tight timing, possibly just two devices collectively shaving a little too much off the accesses. I don't think TerribleFire has one of those IDE speeders (and might not be all that interested in acquiring one) so getting to the bottom of it might be tricky.

I'd be happy to send to him for trials, but I don't know him, he probably couldn't be arsed, and yes probably not interested.

Originally Posted by Daedalus

Don't get me wrong, Mean-Well units *are* good quality PSUs that I've used in industrial equipment for years without any issues (along with Traco, Artesyn and others). And 50W is more than enough for your setup, so upgrading is unlikely to fix the issue. It would be interesting to see what the 5V rail measures within the system, e.g. at the floppy power port on the motherboard, to see if it's sagging due to losses in the cable and connector.

One last thing to mention is that the ripple spec of the RT-50B is outside the Commodore spec. Generally, that shouldn't be an issue, and when I've measured these units, the ripple is far better than that in normal use (probably because they're not typically used at the limits of their capacity), and I've never had any issues with hardware not liking it. But I would say that's a clutching-at-straws suggestion anyway, and upgrading to the RT-65B is unlikely to help if that is the issue either.

I think I'm going to rule the PSU out for now.

[Kin Hell]

Aye.... sack the 4 way adapter & then no more issues!

[Daedalus]

Ian Stedman's guide is pretty good, but the in general simply removing the capacitors seems to be enough in the rare cases where I've seen the timing issue affect hardware.

Yep, sometimes simpler is better The TF IDE port is well worth considering as an alternative.

[rabidgerry]

Originally Posted by Kin Hell

Aye.... sack the 4 way adapter & then no more issues!

I know I can, just grind my gear a bit as I just seemed doomed regarding using some these devices, it's a paint in the ass.

Originally Posted by Daedalus

Ian Stedman's guide is pretty good, but the in general simply removing the capacitors seems to be enough in the rare cases where I've seen the timing issue affect hardware.

Yep, sometimes simpler is better The TF IDE port is well worth considering as an alternative.

If I do it, there would be no way of making things worse? Like I wont need to put them back or anything?

If I could get an IDE cable to run some way around the floppy disk drive I would try TF1260 IDE again and build the ehide.device into a rom (again). Just down to where my CF adapter is located out the little scsi trapdoor which I love btw

I could swap it out for a gotek and easily run a cable over that but I'm still on the fence about removing the floppy drive. It's really stupid as I never use them really and have all the gotek parts for that install.

[Kin Hell]

@ rabidgerry

Do you have a link for the CF SCSI trapdoor solution you used please?

Also, can you post a pic of your A1200 with the TF1260 installed & the Keyboard removed? - Just to try & evaluate the issues you are having loving the SCSI trapdoor for CF & the difficulty getting to the TF IDE header.

I've seen one of these hooked up to a TF1260 on you tube.

https://amigastore.eu/en/891-a120060...-buffered.html

A buffered interface giving you an internal CF & a fly off header you could run to the SCSI Trapdoor CF adapter. This version has the Master/Slave jumper flat to the board. Earlier versions were poking off the board & fouling with the keyboard.

[rabidgerry]

Originally Posted by Kin Hell

@ rabidgerry

Do you have a link for the CF SCSI trapdoor solution you used please?

Also, can you post a pic of your A1200 with the TF1260 installed & the Keyboard removed? - Just to try & evaluate the issues you are having loving the SCSI trapdoor for CF & the difficulty getting to the TF IDE header.

I've seen one of these hooked up to a TF1260 on you tube.

https://amigastore.eu/en/891-a120060...-buffered.html

A buffered interface giving you an internal CF & a fly off header you could run to the SCSI Trapdoor CF adapter. This version has the Master/Slave jumper flat to the board. Earlier versions were poking off the board & fouling with the keyboard.

This is rubbish though as it doesn't show it from inside.

https://amigakit.amiga.store/a1200-c...er-p-1216.html


I'll take a pic later and post it.

**EDIT** here is a shot showing the adapter with the floppy drive removed, it's an old pic but you get the idea (back in the ACA1233n days )