Is Puzzle Bobble possible on A500/A1200?

[lmimmfn]

Originally Posted by Antiriad_UK

Out of interest what age did you have the 500? Apparently the music you listened to when 14/15 stays with you for life. My A500 was 15 so I think it’s a similar reaction

Yes, i think about 14 or 15 also , definately OCS tunes are burnt into my brain, Turrican 1,2, Lotus Series, Shadow Of The Beast 1,2, Speedball 2, etc.

I play these in the car lol and im still listening to metal from that era so i agree with the hypothesis

[skan]

OK, so we can agree than OCS and AGA (as in A500 / A1200) can live in peace and harmony, ok?

That said and back on topic, I think that best chance to get as close to the arcade as possible might be to target a plain vanilla 1200 and see if 50fps can be achieved with 7bp at least.
From there, a tiny A500 porting wouldn't hurt either.

EDIT:
I just had a closer look at the original sprite billboard and yeah, that's 8bp sadly...

[roondar]

Originally Posted by Steril707

I think this is a bit of a skewed impression that surprises me whenever I read this, to be honest.

Well, to be sure, I looked at the list of released games in 2019. It shows 12 AGA only games and 52 OCS compatible games.
(see here: http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?p=1422897)

Whether all the games McGeezer (exception Bomb Jack) and Richard Löwenstein code, plus upcoming titles like Super Metal Hero and Boss Machine are all AGA.

On OCS, I see P!nk with his tiny games, Metro Siege and my Inviyya. And that's it.

Interesting, it seems to me there is much more OCS development than that and I don't see much more than the games you mentioned for AGA. But this is getting off-topic, perhaps another thread?

[spiff]

Not sure if pics from the source has been posted? Its Taito system B, not the neo-geo conversion you heathens!

• Source 151 unique colors (in gameplay)
• 32 color no dither
• 32 color floyd dither
• 16 color floyd dither

Nobodys post is probably more relevant though.. considering actual hardware.

Imho dither starts breaking down around 24 colors, lower than that its more brown gray than vibrant. a good pixel artist can probably get there, skipping one of the bobble colors and incorporating background (copper?). Note though, even the 32 color shows flat areas around yellow and purple bobbles edges where the gradients have been crushed.. maybe it looks better when animated, flickering some color changes.

[skan]

Originally Posted by spiff

Not sure if pics from the source has been posted? Its Taito system B, not the neo-geo conversion you heathens!

• Source 151 unique colors (in gameplay)
• 32 color no dither
• 32 color floyd dither
• 16 color floyd dither

Nobodys post is probably more relevant though.. considering actual hardware.

Imho dither starts breaking down around 24 colors, lower than that its more brown gray than vibrant. a good pixel artist can probably get there, skipping one of the bobble colors and incorporating background (copper?). Note though, even the 32 color shows flat areas around yellow and purple bobbles edges where the gradients have been crushed.. maybe it looks better when animated, flickering some color changes.

Nice find and good analysis.
With 32 colors a proper and well balanced palette can be achieved (see f.i. the miracles Dawnbringer used to do with 16/32 colors only) and then some hand pixelling to polish things a bit is mandatory.

[spiff]

Tbh, I'm more curious to see what could be done with the 16 color version re-edited.
Perceptual vibrancy is tricky in the sense strong primary colors need balanced muted colors to contrast and a lot of them.. and doing that well with few colors is art :9

At the same time.. its effort "wasted" that could have been spent on new games..no offence intended/yucking your yum for anyone doing good stuff here.

[nobody]

Well we don't know what is possible, 16 colors/32 with 4 color sprites etc. This is all just guessing.

[skan]

Originally Posted by spiff

Tbh, I'm more curious to see what could be done with the 16 color version re-edited.
Perceptual vibrancy is tricky in the sense strong primary colors need balanced muted colors to contrast and a lot of them.. and doing that well with few colors is art :9

At the same time.. its effort "wasted" that could have been spent on new games..no offence intended/yucking your yum for anyone doing good stuff here.

Something like this might be a good start
https://lospec.com/palette-list/dawnbringer-16

[Tigerskunk]

Originally Posted by roondar

Well, to be sure, I looked at the list of released games in 2019. It shows 12 AGA only games and 52 OCS compatible games.
(see here: http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?p=1422897)
Interesting, it seems to me there is much more OCS development than that and I don't see much more than the games you mentioned for AGA. But this is getting off-topic, perhaps another thread?

It's probably becaue I am not following each and every release there might be, but only the 'big ones'. And there, the scale tips lightly in favor of AGA imo.

[mcgeezer]

I can see no reason why you couldn't target both OCS and AGA, the game is only limited by the number of colours on OCS. When I've had a look the game pushes around 128 unique colours at any one time. The resolution also fits nicely at 320x224.

It could really be a difference between blitting 5 bitplanes on OCS and 7 bitplanes on AGA for a perfect arcade port.

[roondar]

Originally Posted by mcgeezer

I can see no reason why you couldn't target both OCS and AGA, the game is only limited by the number of colours on OCS. When I've had a look the game pushes around 128 unique colours at any one time. The resolution also fits nicely at 320x224.

It could really be a difference between blitting 5 bitplanes on OCS and 7 bitplanes on AGA for a perfect arcade port.

To be fair, pink raised a valid point - there are times at which you'll need to move quite a few objects (he counted over 60 objects between 16x16 and 32x32 in a frame). With that in mind, I'd say that an OCS port in particular might need to be downgraded further than to 32 colours.

Having thought about it some more, I am starting to feel this is more challenging than I originally guessed.

[mcgeezer]

Originally Posted by roondar

Having thought about it some more, I am starting to feel this is more challenging than I originally guessed.

It's certainly not easy by any stretch, but certainly do-able in my mind.

[Amiga1992]

Originally Posted by jeff b00toNic

However I find that really impressive for 8bit [ Show youtube player ]

I love it when there's pages and pages of discussion about what the Amiga can or cannot do, mostly erring on the side of "can't", and then someone goes "the C64 did it".

A conversion like this has less to do with technical limitations and more to do with smart decision-making in compromises to be made. The C64 scene is on-point with this mindset, and this is why you see such amazing things coming out there.

[lmimmfn]

Originally Posted by roondar

To be fair, pink raised a valid point - there are times at which you'll need to move quite a few objects (he counted over 60 objects between 16x16 and 32x32 in a frame). With that in mind, I'd say that an OCS port in particular might need to be downgraded further than to 32 colours.

Having thought about it some more, I am starting to feel this is more challenging than I originally guessed.

I dont think those objects falling need to be a full 50FPS though, could do half the blits on alternating frames. Everything else could run at 50.

[Tigerskunk]

Originally Posted by Akira

I love it when there's pages and pages of discussion about what the Amiga can or cannot do, mostly erring on the side of "can't", and then someone goes "the C64 did it".

A conversion like this has less to do with technical limitations and more to do with smart decision-making in compromises to be made. The C64 scene is on-point with this mindset, and this is why you see such amazing things coming out there.

Off course, you can always make a version that looks "okayish". We have had TONS of games whose conversions looked "okayish" on the Amiga.

I am interested in the possible best looking version when talking tech here.

I want people to see this and say "Woah, the Amiga really has it in it, doesn't it" it instead of "well, that's kind of okay" or "good enough. It's playable.".

[pink^abyss]

Originally Posted by Steril707

Off course, you can always make a version that looks "okayish". We have had TONS of games whose conversions looked "okayish" on the Amiga.

I am interested in the possible best looking version when talking tech here.

I want people to see this and say "Woah, the Amiga really has it in it, doesn't it" it instead of "well, that's kind of okay" or "good enough. It's playable.".

Yeah, that's the spirit! So 50fps, 32 colors minimum for all upcoming Amiga ports

[saimon69]

The 32 color reduction feels good, however i would tweak a bit the HUE of the colors because are going towards the yellow; better fidelity with EHB and if we go down to 25 FPS for bubbles; i seem to remember even the arcade was no shaking bubbles that good when time to upgrade was up, and for falling would make no difference.

To compare, if people can squeeze multicolor from a spectrum then a good puzzle bobble can be made in EHB - you squeeze a bit the screen, though

[ Show youtube player ]

[malko]

Originally Posted by Akira

I love it when there's pages and pages of discussion about what the Amiga can or cannot do, mostly erring on the side of "can't", and then someone goes "the C64 did it".

A conversion like this has less to do with technical limitations and more to do with smart decision-making in compromises to be made. The C64 scene is on-point with this mindset, and this is why you see such amazing things coming out there.

+1

[d4rk3lf]

Originally Posted by Akira

I love it when there's pages and pages...

Hey man, you're back.
Great to see ya!

In case you didn't noticed, we now have graphics and music sub-forums, with the help of DamienD.
Cheers!

Originally Posted by nobody

Well to say that you need AGA for puzzle bobble is hilarious. What next? Pacman on 68030 only, with rainbow colored ghosts?

Haha.. my thoughts too.

Originally Posted by nobody

In pixel graphics some times less is more.

Again, pure truth.

Originally Posted by skan

Again, it's not about gfx only, but the whole package: smoothness, speed, gameplay.

Can you point me on youtube link, and some second where lot's is going on the screen? I am trying to find something, and couldn't find anything then few bubbles pop, and their debris falls, nothing more...

For me, Pang is much more visual interesting, and have lot's of stuff going on.
Not to mention the likes of Ruff 'n' Tumble, Turrican, Project X... etc.

[saimon69]

Originally Posted by d4rk3lf

Can you point me on youtube link, and some second where lot's is going on the screen? I am trying to find something, and couldn't find anything then few bubbles pop, and their debris falls, nothing more...

Suit yourself!
[ Show youtube player ]

Note also parallax layer from round 25