FAT, FFS, MacOSX Maverick and CF-card

Doc Mindie · 01 March 2014, 16:59

First off, I've gone through 99% of this forum without seeing "my exact" problem being mentioned. So if there's a thread I've missed, I'm sorry in advance.

Now that's out of the way, here's the problem:

I'm using an iMac mid-2011 as my main computer. I've got my beloved A1200 running behind me as well.

The Amiga has a IDE2CD adapter, and I'e been using the CF as me main HD since I installed it.

Now I've got a USB car-reader and I've got loads of stuff from AmiNET and otherwheres I want to get onto the Amiga. which is why I got the cardreader in the first place

. Now, all threads I've found is related to RedmondOS

of various incarnations, but seeing as I've got no such thing... what's my best bet in re-partitioning the CF-card, to get a 250MB FAT partition (or thereabouts) to work in conjunction with SYS: and WORK: for the purpose of transferring things back and forth from the Amiga to the Mac?

willbloke · 02 March 2014, 15:25

Can't Mavericks format FAT then ?
Older OS X could.

Doc Mindie · 02 March 2014, 21:12

It can... but which programme to partition the drive with... I see RedmondOS-only programmes referenced to do this

fgh · 03 March 2014, 01:16

From this thread it seems you can add the SD card in FS-UAE, and copy stuff directly to the amiga partitions.

It is also possible to have both amiga and FAT partitions on the same card.
I haven't done it myself, but I've read the MBR needs to be positioned at the very beginning of the drive.
Mac OS disk utility can do this part. Leave at least some space for the RDB before the FAT partition.
Then setup the amiga partitions without overlapping the FAT one

As I said I never tried it, but IIRC HDInstTools should recognize the MBR and FAT partitions and let you position the amiga partitions easily.

Lykke til!

Jope · 04 March 2014, 15:16

Use Disk Utility on the MAC. This isn't really an Amiga problem, the thread might move at some point if it continues to be about OSX. :-)

thomas · 04 March 2014, 19:49

@Doc Mindie:

You won't ever get a FAT partition on your Amiga HDD which is readable by another computer than an Amiga. Partitition tables are different. A Mac does not know the Amiga partition table and would treat the CF card as unformatted.

I'd suggest to get a PCMCIA CF card reader for your Amiga and another CF card so that you have one Amiga formatted CF card as harddrive and another CF card in PC format for file transfers.

fgh · 04 March 2014, 20:09

Thomas: There are a couple of guys that did exactly that on here before. Trick is to place the MBR first, then RDB, then the various partitions without overlapping.

Doc Mindie · 05 March 2014, 18:38

@fgh:

Don't know how many times I've heard "not possible on Amiga..." only to have either already done it or done it a couple of days/weeks later....

There seems to "always" be possible to do things on the Amiga that may require some tinkering on my part, but people who's never owned a real amiga thinks is "impossible" on that sort of computer.

That said: Thanks for the input... I'll have some tinkering with the problem and see what I can come up with... an keep it posted here for other to (ab)use at their own leisure

fgh · 05 March 2014, 23:18

Good luck! Although as Tomas said It'd probably be easier to just get a pcmcia-cf adapter. They cost nothing after all. The driver's CF compatibility is not 100%, but Sandisk cards seem to all work. (Several kingston cards do not work)

For the record Tomas and Jope both know their stuff, and certainly have a deeper understanding of amiga hardware than me. I just happened to take notice when I read reports of combining pc and amiga partitions.

I recognise your nick from the Norwegian scene in the nineties btw, not sure from where though

thomas · 06 March 2014, 11:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by fgh

Thomas: There are a couple of guys that did exactly that on here before. Trick is to place the MBR first, then RDB, then the various partitions without overlapping.

I know that it can be done. But it is difficult and dangerous. And it is my opinion that somebody who needs to ask how it is done is not qualified to do it. If he knew the required background details, he would be able to develop a procedure how to do it by himself. He would perhaps need to ask for tools which can move the RDB or print the contents of the MBR or something, but he wouldn't need to ask for the basics.

As a compromise it would be possible to use FAT for the entire CF card. FAT95 comes with a utility which can create an RDB behind the MBR containing the same partitions. This way you could copy files to your boot partition on a Mac or PC. You wouldn't need to create a seperate partition for file transfers.

The drawback is that amiga-specific file attributes cannot be stored. And IIRC you can use only one partition for the entire card.

thomas · 06 March 2014, 16:15

That said I remembered that I once wrote a program which can move the RDB from block 0 to another custom block. Now I started adding a function to create an MBR of up to four partition from this RDB. When I tried to test it I stumbled across another problem: with HDToolbox it is not possible to create a working FAT partition, at least not with FAT95. HDToolbox is made for FFS and it does not allow to set special things like GlobVec and StackSize which FAT95 needs. So a partition created this way will crash on access.

Doc Mindie · 06 March 2014, 22:47

fgh... Yes, I was semi-active back then... mostly as a musician, though never released anything. Closest I got was the "quick composer" compo at one of the Grenland-parties... probably on Gulset, Skien.

Thomas: If you re-read, I asked which Mac programmes would be me best bet, as the other threads I've read references some tool for RedmondOS.

Though now you said it... using the whole CF for FAT (or even FAT95) and then use a regular 2.5" drive in the A1200... with, obviously, the drivers to (auto)mount the FAT(95) for transfer back and forth..

Cheers for that, hadn't even thought about it

thomas · 07 March 2014, 08:37

You asked which Mac tool can be used to add a PC partition to an existing Amiga harddrive. You should know that this is a destructive action. Once you use a Mac tool on an Amiga harddrive, all Amiga data is lost. You didn't mention that you are intending to do it this way and install all Amiga stuff again from scratch. Your post reads like you want to keep the Amiga data. This is not possible with a non-Amiga tool. Asking for a Mac tool anyway indicates a lack of required knowledge.

01 March 2014, 16:59	#1
Doc Mindie In deep Trouble Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Manchester, Made in Norway Age: 51 Posts: 841	FAT, FFS, MacOSX Maverick and CF-card First off, I've gone through 99% of this forum without seeing "my exact" problem being mentioned. So if there's a thread I've missed, I'm sorry in advance. Now that's out of the way, here's the problem: I'm using an iMac mid-2011 as my main computer. I've got my beloved A1200 running behind me as well. The Amiga has a IDE2CD adapter, and I'e been using the CF as me main HD since I installed it. Now I've got a USB car-reader and I've got loads of stuff from AmiNET and otherwheres I want to get onto the Amiga. which is why I got the cardreader in the first place . Now, all threads I've found is related to RedmondOS of various incarnations, but seeing as I've got no such thing... what's my best bet in re-partitioning the CF-card, to get a 250MB FAT partition (or thereabouts) to work in conjunction with SYS: and WORK: for the purpose of transferring things back and forth from the Amiga to the Mac?

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02 March 2014, 15:25	#2
willbloke Registered User Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Poole , Dorset Posts: 139	Can't Mavericks format FAT then ? Older OS X could.

02 March 2014, 21:12	#3
Doc Mindie In deep Trouble Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Manchester, Made in Norway Age: 51 Posts: 841	It can... but which programme to partition the drive with... I see RedmondOS-only programmes referenced to do this

03 March 2014, 01:16	#4
fgh Registered User Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Norway Posts: 817	From this thread it seems you can add the SD card in FS-UAE, and copy stuff directly to the amiga partitions. It is also possible to have both amiga and FAT partitions on the same card. I haven't done it myself, but I've read the MBR needs to be positioned at the very beginning of the drive. Mac OS disk utility can do this part. Leave at least some space for the RDB before the FAT partition. Then setup the amiga partitions without overlapping the FAT one As I said I never tried it, but IIRC HDInstTools should recognize the MBR and FAT partitions and let you position the amiga partitions easily. Lykke til!

04 March 2014, 15:16	#5
Jope - Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Helsinki / Finland Age: 43 Posts: 9,861	Use Disk Utility on the MAC. This isn't really an Amiga problem, the thread might move at some point if it continues to be about OSX. :-)

04 March 2014, 19:49	#6
thomas Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 6,985	@Doc Mindie: You won't ever get a FAT partition on your Amiga HDD which is readable by another computer than an Amiga. Partitition tables are different. A Mac does not know the Amiga partition table and would treat the CF card as unformatted. I'd suggest to get a PCMCIA CF card reader for your Amiga and another CF card so that you have one Amiga formatted CF card as harddrive and another CF card in PC format for file transfers.

04 March 2014, 20:09	#7
fgh Registered User Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Norway Posts: 817	Thomas: There are a couple of guys that did exactly that on here before. Trick is to place the MBR first, then RDB, then the various partitions without overlapping.

05 March 2014, 18:38	#8
Doc Mindie In deep Trouble Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Manchester, Made in Norway Age: 51 Posts: 841	@fgh: Don't know how many times I've heard "not possible on Amiga..." only to have either already done it or done it a couple of days/weeks later.... There seems to "always" be possible to do things on the Amiga that may require some tinkering on my part, but people who's never owned a real amiga thinks is "impossible" on that sort of computer. That said: Thanks for the input... I'll have some tinkering with the problem and see what I can come up with... an keep it posted here for other to (ab)use at their own leisure

05 March 2014, 23:18	#9
fgh Registered User Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Norway Posts: 817	Good luck! Although as Tomas said It'd probably be easier to just get a pcmcia-cf adapter. They cost nothing after all. The driver's CF compatibility is not 100%, but Sandisk cards seem to all work. (Several kingston cards do not work) For the record Tomas and Jope both know their stuff, and certainly have a deeper understanding of amiga hardware than me. I just happened to take notice when I read reports of combining pc and amiga partitions. I recognise your nick from the Norwegian scene in the nineties btw, not sure from where though

06 March 2014, 16:15	#11
thomas Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 6,985	That said I remembered that I once wrote a program which can move the RDB from block 0 to another custom block. Now I started adding a function to create an MBR of up to four partition from this RDB. When I tried to test it I stumbled across another problem: with HDToolbox it is not possible to create a working FAT partition, at least not with FAT95. HDToolbox is made for FFS and it does not allow to set special things like GlobVec and StackSize which FAT95 needs. So a partition created this way will crash on access.

06 March 2014, 22:47	#12
Doc Mindie In deep Trouble Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Manchester, Made in Norway Age: 51 Posts: 841	fgh... Yes, I was semi-active back then... mostly as a musician, though never released anything. Closest I got was the "quick composer" compo at one of the Grenland-parties... probably on Gulset, Skien. Thomas: If you re-read, I asked which Mac programmes would be me best bet, as the other threads I've read references some tool for RedmondOS. Though now you said it... using the whole CF for FAT (or even FAT95) and then use a regular 2.5" drive in the A1200... with, obviously, the drivers to (auto)mount the FAT(95) for transfer back and forth.. Cheers for that, hadn't even thought about it

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07 March 2014, 08:37	#13
thomas Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 6,985	You asked which Mac tool can be used to add a PC partition to an existing Amiga harddrive. You should know that this is a destructive action. Once you use a Mac tool on an Amiga harddrive, all Amiga data is lost. You didn't mention that you are intending to do it this way and install all Amiga stuff again from scratch. Your post reads like you want to keep the Amiga data. This is not possible with a non-Amiga tool. Asking for a Mac tool anyway indicates a lack of required knowledge.