A2386SX BridgeBoard - amouse not working

[StompinSteve]

Good evening guys 'm gals,

I'm trying to get amouse to work with my A2386SX but have been unsuccesfull so far. I've had the BridgeBoard for 2 days now and it runs fine, just without a mouse.

Brief overview of the system:
Amiga 4000T, ROM 3.1.4 with AmigaOS 3.1.4.1 and a BFG9060 full 68060 Rev6 @ 100Mhz.
RTG Graphics: CyberVision 64 with P96 v3.3.3
A2386SX with 4 MB RAM
Janus 2.1 Standard Installation + JanusPatch from the JanusTools package.
VGA: Tseng Labs Machspeed 9344 ET4000AX 1MB ISA VGA card
Audio: Soundblaster AWE-64 Value ISA
Storage: Not using a hardfile but instead, a real Adaptec AHA-1542CF ISA SCSI Controller (with its floppy-controller disabled) connected to a ZuluSCSI with 2 virtual 500 MB SCSI Harddisks ( C: and D: )

I got everything to run perfectly and without conflicts and good performance by setting the Janus Handler Load Segment to "A000". However, the problem with A000 (in my system) is that the "Janus Library and Janus Handler" messages never show up during boot.
Consequently and logically, amouse says that it can't load the Amiga mouse (even though MouseServ is running).
I can only get the Janus Library and Janus Handler" messages to appear with the Janus Handler Load Segment set to "D000". But then I have other problems...

So I tried the following: (all with D000 set)

Attempt 1.
- Reboot the Amiga
- run Enforcer 37.73 with 68060 support by Michael Sinz, as a replacement for the old Enforcer from the Janus 2.1 package which won't run anyway, aborts with message "CPU too expensive" )
- then run januspatch
- then run Binddrivers which starts the BridgeBoard
- the Adaptec SCSI controller says it's own BIOS is loaded succesfully.
- the "Janus Library and Janus Handler" messages appear
- a long freeze (more than a minute)
- Messages "VGA BIOS shadowed" + "BIOS ROM Shadowed"
- an even longer freeze
- Message "Press CTRL-ALT-ESC to run Setup, or F1 to retry boot"
- Then nothing. Can only reboot

Attempt 2.
- Reboot the Amiga
- run MuForce instead of Enforcer (I use Thomas Richter MMUTools so this made sense)
- then run januspatch
- then run Binddrivers which starts the BridgeBoard
- the rest is **identical** to the result of step 1 so no need to type it here again

Attempt 3.
- Reboot the Amiga
- do NOT run MuForce OR Enforcer
- then run januspatch
- then run Binddrivers which starts the BridgeBoard
- the rest is **identical** to the result of step 1 so no need to type it here again

Attempt 4.
- Reboot the Amiga
- run MuForce OR Enforcer (result is the same)
- do NOT run januspatch
- then run Binddrivers which starts the BridgeBoard
- the "Janus Library and Janus Handler" messages do NOT appear
- Error message "D4000h Optional ROM bad checksum = 6Fh"
- Messages "VGA BIOS shadowed" + "BIOS ROM Shadowed"
- Message "Press CTRL-ALT-ESC to run Setup, or F1 to retry boot"
- Then nothing. Can only reboot

Restore normal operations:
- Set the Janus Handler Load Segment to "A000" and reboot the Amiga
- run MuForce OR Enforcer (result is the same)
- run januspatch
- then run Binddrivers which starts the BridgeBoard
- the "Janus Library and Janus Handler" messages do NOT appear
- The Error message "D4000h Optional ROM bad checksum = 6Fh" does NOT appear
- Messages "VGA BIOS shadowed" + "BIOS ROM Shadowed" appear quickly
- System boots into DOS 6.22 normally and fast. But of course, no amouse.


I've been reading my butt off. There is a 107 pages long thread on A1K.org and many other sources, but I can't get the mouse working because of the freezes and crash at boot when I set the Janus Handler Load Segment to "D000".

[LIV2]

Does the behaviour change if you try booting with the Adaptec card removed? Perhaps it's option rom clashes with the Janus handler

[Magic]

My experience with the A2386 - years ago now, the 16 bit ISA IDE HD, and the adaptec scsi controllers all can be problematic to setup. Some HD controllers BIOS just won't work with the bridgeboards bios. I had more luck with the really old 8 bit ISA controllers, or Amiga storage like a hardfile or ?

[StompinSteve]

Well, I actually never got the hardfile to work. The PC side of things does see the drive at all (boot from floppy -> run fdisk -> no disks present). That is why I got me the Adaptec card (and to be honest, as a SCSI freak, I wanted to go in that direction in the end anyway ;-)

This particular Adaptec AHA-1542CF is highly configurable. The DMA Channel, the IRQ, BIOS and Memory addresses can all be changed, unlike "simpler" controllers.

The Soundblaster AWE64 uses a lot of resources and the MPU401 component conflicted with the Adaptec right off the bat, as by default, they both use 330h and both use DMA channel 5.

I wanted to leave the soundblaster alone as
A. i have not found out how to change it's settings, it's plug&play but does what ever it wants anyway.
2. Some games will look for the MPU-401 port at 330h for example.

But no problemo Amigo because the Adaptec can be fully modified. This is how the Soundblaster and Adaptec are set up now (conflict free).

Soundblaster AWE64 Value ISA:
200h-207h - gamePort
220h-22Fh - base
330h-331h - midi MPU401
388h-38Bh - FM Synth (thanks giantclam)
620h - wavetable
IRQ 5
DMA Channel 1
DMA Channel 5
(these are all the factory values)

Adaptec AHA-1542CF ISA SCSI Controller:
Memory 334h (factory setting = 330h)
Floppy Ctrl. 3F0h-3F7h (disabled with a dip-switch)
IRQ 11 (factory setting = 11)
DMA Channel 7 (factory setting = 5)

What I have not tried yet, is change the so called "BIOS Address" of the Adaptec.
These are the possible settings:
DC000h
D8000h
D4000h (i'd expect that error "D4000h Optional ROM bad checksum = 6Fh" only when this setting would be the active one)
D0000h
CC000h (current setting)
C8000h

I can also try, as you suggest, to take the Adaptec out and boot from floppy and set the Janus Handler Load Segment to "D000" to see if it does not freeze or error then.

[giantclam]

388h-38Bh (dunno what component this is)

FM synth =)

[StompinSteve]

Ok it's definitely the Adaptec Card that messes with Janus. After A couple of hours trying all the configurable memory addresses of the SCSI Card, with the "Janus handler load segment" set to "D000" and later to "A000", here are the results:

Each line starts with the SCSI Card's address (set by dip-switches on the card) followed by the = symbol and the result.

___________
Testing with Janus handler load segment set to D000:

DC000h = no card, no errors, no messages, as if the card is removed from the ISA slot.

D8000h = SCSI Card works but won't boot and error "D8000h optional ROM bad checksum = 8Ah"

D4000h = SCSI Card works but won't boot and error "D4000h optional ROM bad checksum = 2Ah"

D0000h = SCSI Card works, "Janus handler version 36.85" message is shown + "No janus memory structure found" error

CC000h = SCSI Card works but hangs after the two janus messages and "bios/vga shadowed" messages. HDD activity LED on the card lights up permanently

C8000h = identical behaviour as with CC000h

With card removed from ISA Slot = Janus messages are shown, boots normally from floppy and amouse works.

___________
A couple of tests with "Janus handler load segment" set to A000:

C8000h = Boots normally, all good, but no janus messages

CC000h = identical behaviour to C8000h

With card removed from ISA slot = Boots normally from floppy (there is no hardfile), all good, but again no janus messages during POST.


I therefore conclude, by lack of other knowledge or evidence, that Janus and PC <--> Amiga interaction, only works with the Janus handler load segment set to D000. On my system anyway.

____________________________________

As the PC works perfectly fine with the "Janus handler load segment" set to A000 or "Don't load", I now run the system this way. I can play Wolfenstein 3D with the keyboard for hours, perfectly stable, the soundblaster works great, peformance is good.

But no mouse

I've read posts in other forums where folks attached a normal "Microsoft type mouse" to their bridgeboards to achive a functioning mouse but how on earth did they do that? Attach such a mouse to what???
Maybe they referred to the other two bridgeboards and not the A2386SX, not sure.

[Jope]

You attach microsoft mice to a serial port.

[StompinSteve]

Originally Posted by Jope

You attach microsoft mice to a serial port.

Which one? A2386SX does not have a serial port.
I would need an ISA I/O Card or something but all 4 ISA Slots are in use (BB, SCSI, Soundblaster, VGA

[fgh]

You have fast scsi 2 on your 4000T, perhaps using a partition on the amiga will be fast enough?
Then you can skip the scsi card.

https://retro.ramonddevrede.nl/janus...pe-0x4d534800/

If you need a cdrom on the pc side, there is ‘amicdex’ on aminet.

My a2386sx (486) arrived from repair yesterday. Will be attempting this myself soon

[Jope]

Originally Posted by StompinSteve

Which one? A2386SX does not have a serial port.
I would need an ISA I/O Card or something but all 4 ISA Slots are in use (BB, SCSI, Soundblaster, VGA

Ah, true, you would need a multi io.

[StompinSteve]

Ok so I took the SCSI adapter out, created a new 1000MB virtual harddisk on the ZuluSCSI in the 4000t and set it to CrossDOS Filesystem type MSH/00, DOSType 0x4D534800 and called it "MSDOS" which auto mounts as "MSDOS:"

I overwrote the original DosServ with the version included in JanusTools from AmiNet.

I then pointed ABOOT.ctrl to MSDOS: without a carriage-return (important), started "Janus-patch" and "bind drivers" and hey presto, a virtual harddisk, size 1000MB.

Three quirks:
1.
The DOS partition must be auto mounted but is visible on the workbench with "uninitialized". This is easy to fix in Workbench 3.1.4 because you can hide auto-mounted disks/volumes in the "Workbench" Prefs-panel.
So I configured "MSDOS:" with the "hidden" flag thus optically, it's gone from the Workbench.

B.
Every time the Bridgeboard (re-)boots and access the HDD for the first time during POST, a Workbench popup shows up saying "No disk present in device MSDOS" (MSDOS is the name of that partition). Retry does nothing and when I click "Cancel", the BB boots normally from the (virtual) HDD.
I have read about this problem in multiple places but have not seen a solution.

3.
After each boot, MSDOS: has 3 buffers (not a typo), even though I set them to higher values in HDtoolBox (I tried, 150, 200, 300 etc.).
Each time the Amiga reboots, it has 3 buffers again. It totally ignores the value set in HDtoolbox.
In the script I use to activate the bridgeboard, I run "add buffers 300" and the reply is that is has 225 buffers. No matter what value I enter above 225, the value maxes out at 225 buffers, as if it where a hard coded max. value.

Performance:
What can I say, the ZuluSCSI with the Adaptec card did 2.36 MB/s and now, with the virtual drive, despite it being a full, real (ok, it's virtual) HDD and dedicated partition and NOT a hardfile, throughput is 422 KB/s.
That is a substantial performance-drop.
It does feels very "vintage", working with such a slow HDD on a 25MHz 386SX, so I' not complaining, it's just an observation.

Anyhu, I connected a Tank Mouse to the second (joystick) port of the amiga, fired up amouse.com and it works. I'm now shooting around in Wolfenstein 3D with a mouse

With the Adapter card gone and an ISA slot free, I might invest in one of those 16bit Multi-IO cards with IDE and COM ports and hookup an IDE Flash drive and a real, period-correct serial mouse.
But for now, despite the quirks, it works.

[Calabazam]

This is interesting post to read how everyone goes his own path with those bridgeboards 30 years after their time, i will read again later.
However, careful, there is no way a 1000 MB hardfile works fine with the A2386. There is a limit around 500 MB, you can't get anything more working (unless you are using Ontrack manager or similar but i'm not sure it would work with fake drives). If you managed to apparently get it working, chances are something will fail when you will reach that 500 MB barrier.

[StompinSteve]

It's not a hardfile Cala. It's direct access to a partition on a physical disk (ok, a virtualised ZuluSCSI harddisk but the Amiga does not know that) which is used by DosServ.
Commodore's DosServer, from Janus 2.1 cannot do this. But the modified DosServ from the JanusTools package can.
Also, with this DosServ and the fact that it is not a hardfile, removes the need for running Enforcer or MuForce.

The size limit is the normal limit imposed by the MSDOS 6.22 FAT Filesystem which is 2 GB I believe. I created a 1000MB ZuluSCSI virtual disk, used HDToolBox to create 1 partition on it (uses all space) and gave this the BridgeBoard. MSDOS 6.22 FDisk.exe sees the disk. Partition and format it like you normally would and you are all set.

My Script does 3 things:
"DH0:C/AddBuffers MSDOS: 300" (but this always ends up at 255, no matter what I do)
"DH0:PC/JanusPatch"
"DH0:C/BindDrivers"

That is all. Works like a charm (except for that pesky popup about device MSDOS every time the PC (re-)boots).

[StompinSteve]

Howdee folks,

I found a 16bit Multi-IO card with IDE Controller and COM ports (Goldstar IODE-3290U) and hooked up an IDE Flash Module (DELOCK 2GB Industrial 40-pin IDE) and a real, period-correct Microsoft serial mouse.
Disabled aboot.ctrl and fired up the Bridgeboard. Set the Harddisk type to "Auto" and fdisk finds a 456MB Harddisk. Dunno why it's only 456 MB, probably some limitation somewhere.

Anyhu, booted from the MSDOS 6.22 installer floppy, installed MSDOS completely (3 floppies) but at the end it complained about not being able to read command.com ????
Retry keeps repeating the error so I ended up using the "fail this task" command. The DOS Installer then told me MSDOS 6.22 was successfully installed (really?) and I rebooted the machine when it told me.

It froze while booting from HDD. It should say "starting ms-dos" but it just freezes every time.
I can boot from floppy and do "dir c:\dos" and it shows all the files there.
I can do "type c:\autoexec.bat" and it will show the contents. Same for config.sys sitting in C:\
But when I run any of the commands on C: it hangs and after a while says "Not ready reading drive C:"

While being booted from floppy, I can copy files from A: to C: just fine. I can also create directories on C: just fine and copy files into them. I can copy the SI8 folder with Norton SysInfo for example. No problem. Writing to C: works perfectly.
But as soon as I CD to C:\SI8 and run sysinfo.exe, same issue "Not ready reading drive C:"

I'm confused. I can install DOS, i can create folders and copy stuff to C: but running anything from C: makes it hang.
When starting SI8 from floppy it sees the HDD and all seems fine.
Doing a CHKDSK C: also makes it hang and after a while, show "Not ready reading drive C:"

I read about this exact behaviour in a post in some other forum, but it was never replied on.

[StompinSteve]

I got it working, thanks to a tip in a German forum.
https://www.a1k.org/forum/index.php?...33435/page-108

Ontrack DiskManager was the solution. A 30MB boot partition, as it was suggested, created with FDISK resulted in the same problem: can write but not read.

Installed the HDD (flash) with Ontrack and all good. Even the full 2 GB.
Was able to install MS-DOS 6.2.2 and it runs like a banana :-)

[tiim]

Hate to revive this thread but I have an issue with AMOUSE

I have my A3286 set up and everything is fine with actual IDE HDD, VGA and SoundBlaster.

I am having an issue with AMOUSE since moving to IDE HDD. The mouse is not working, it skips all around the screen like there is a matrix and it stays within those 8 places. In effect, it's useless. I would like to run Windows 3.1 and when I do, same mouse pointer issue. For Windows, I load AMOUSE3.DRV in SYSTEM.INI and it does not help.

Has anyone experienced this issue? I have everything else running smoothly. I don't want to add a serial mouse, that defeats the whole single KB/Mouse attraction of the original Bridgeboard!

Cheers,

Tim

[derSammler]

How is the IDE HDD connected? When I still had a bridge board, I had the same issues after installing an XT-IDE. It seems that whatever controller with an option rom you install, it will use the memory area that is also used for communication between the bridge board and the Janus software.

[tiim]

Ah, that makes sense.

I am using a "MIO-400KF" Multi-IO board. I have the instructions for it, and have only enabled one serial port, the game and parallel ports are disabled as is the second serial port. I see no setting for IDE port IRQ or base address.

If I remove the Sound Blaster, the same erratic AMOUSE problem exists.

I have an XT-IDE card as well, maybe I will try that.

Thanks,

Tim

[tiim]

OK, I have a mouse now!

I disabled every additional port on the Multi IO card and All is well.

I looked up the ports to avoid when using a Bridgeboard:
http://l8r.net/technical/a2386.html

Now I will try to add a serial/joystick port back in using IRQ 4 and 5. LPT and floppy are covered on the BB.

[Jope]

Nice find there with the irq/port list. I've been wondering about that sometimes when we've been debugging friends' bridgeboard problems.

A bit of digging got me to the source http://web.archive.org/web/199910092...idgeboard.html