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Old 28 April 2012, 21:38   #1
Clark Kent
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Vsync does not work anymore with 2.4.0

I'm using WinUAE for a long time on my arcade PC (AMD X4 640, ArcadeVGA 2 Radeon HD 2400, 2 GB RAM) built into a real arcade cabinet.

Version 2.3.3 was the last one supporting my special configuration - having absolutely fluid scrolling in every game.

As my arcade graphics card ArcadeVGA 2 supports native resolution 352 x 288 with 51 Hz I set exactely these values. I even see the special refresh rate of 51 Hz in the pull down menu (there is a "(50Hz Pal)" then "51Hz" and then "(60Hz) NTSC" and so on). I also set "VSync" (not AutoVsync or Low latency VSync as these methods do not result in totally fluid scrolling).

Since version 2.4.0 I do not see the "51Hz" value anymore. And the setting "VSync" also does not work anymore.

I wonder why you changed this? Can you restore this special settings for a future version of WinUAE?

Thank you!
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Old 28 April 2012, 22:06   #2
Toni Wilen
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Long explanation: check beta threads.

Short explanation: traditional vsync sucks for fastest possible modes (huge speed loss and more), introduces random/variable latency (depending on display driver etc..), uses 100% CPU and it is impossible to cancel already started vsync wait (missed frame means one extra frame wait which guarantees sound buffer underflow)

Try latest 1.4.1 beta first, use low latency mode (use "default" as refresh rate if 51Hz is missing) and include winuaelog.txt (remember to tick logging checkbox in misc panel first) after testing it. EDIT: also test both "no buffer" and "double"/"triple" buffer settings (display panel).

Also include beta and 2.3.3 winuaebootlog.txt.

51Hz missing is not related to vsync. I assume your driver only reports 51Hz when requesting DirectDraw modes (which is not used anymore for mode enumeration)

Last edited by Toni Wilen; 28 April 2012 at 22:16.
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Old 28 April 2012, 23:36   #3
Clark Kent
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Thanx for the info!

I recently tried 2.4b10 but with the same result. But I'll try again with the things you suggested.

Where to post the logs?
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Old 28 April 2012, 23:49   #4
prowler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Kent View Post
Where to post the logs?
Attach them to your next post in this thread. (When you are in the Reply Panel, scroll down the screen until you see the Manage Attachments button. Click on this button, in the window which opens, navigate to each log file on your machine and upload it (text files up to 100kB are permitted). Then close this window (link at top right), and then submit your post.)
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Old 29 April 2012, 09:10   #5
Clark Kent
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I just tried the new Beta 10 again and suddenly I have the "51Hz" setting again. Maybe I started 2.4.0 by mistake last time (I installed several version for testing). But scrolling is only fluid with "Low latency VSync" or "Low latency VS 50/60Hz" - with "Legacy VSync" scrolling is jerking a little bit. So at least this problem is solved.

But now the sound stutters. But it only stutters with "Low latency VSync" - where I get fluid scrolling. Is there a recommended setting for this?

Should I still post the log?
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Old 29 April 2012, 09:41   #6
Toni Wilen
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Yeah, include logs.

Include following ones:

2.3.3: winuaebootlog.txt and winuaelog.txt when using your working vsync configuration.

Latest beta (actually use this: http://www.winuae.net/files/b/winuae.zip): winuaebootlog.txt, winuaelog.txt when using 2.3.3 configuration and another winuaelog.txt when using low latency setup.

Note that there is still strange problem somewhere that makes no buffer mode better than double or triple (which does not make any sense..)

Last edited by prowler; 30 April 2012 at 01:09. Reason: Fixed link.
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Old 29 April 2012, 17:45   #7
Clark Kent
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Included the winuabootlog.txt of both versions as you requested.

I do not know where to find the winuaelog.txt - if you tell me that I can also send this file.

There is another flaw I found while testing: Screen is blurred somehow. I'm using the same resolution as in 2.3.3 (352x288) but when using 2.4.1b10 screen looks blurred, smoothed. But with 2.3.3 the same resolution is pixel-exact like on a real Amiga without any blurring.
Attached Files
File Type: txt winuaebootlog.txt (12.5 KB, 132 views)
File Type: txt winuaebootlog241b10.txt (12.8 KB, 122 views)
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Old 29 April 2012, 17:54   #8
Toni Wilen
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Quote:
Log (disabled): 'C:\Programme\WinUAE\winuaelog.txt'
Check my previous post, it says how to enable it.

I can see 352*288*51 in 2.4.1 winuaebootlog.txt. Is there still problems with this mode?

btw, I don't think you used latest version. (Link also above)

Attach your config file too, thanks.
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Old 29 April 2012, 23:23   #9
Clark Kent
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The link above does not work here. 404 File not found.

I'll check all things required as soon as the link works.

And thanx again - I forgot to tick logging checkbox...
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Old 29 April 2012, 23:29   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Kent View Post
The link above does not work here. 404 File not found.
I'm uploading it to The Zone for you now.

How do I get access to the zone?

Edit: The link was broken. I've now fixed it. It should work now.

Last edited by prowler; 30 April 2012 at 01:11.
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Old 30 April 2012, 17:21   #11
Clark Kent
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Thanx - I just downloaded the file!

I didn't had the time to do the log but I noticed that the screen is still blurred. There is no pixel exact output - but I didn't change the resolution of 352x288 since 2.3.3. With the older version I have a totally clear picture on my arcade screen, since the new version it's blurred...

I'll post the logs soon!
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Old 30 April 2012, 19:11   #12
Clark Kent
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Ok, enclosed the logs.

When starting the latest version first I had a pixel perfect display - but after switching a little bit with "Low latency" and "Legacy" (and maybe "Resolution autoswitch") screen became blurred again. Resolution was always 352x288. But I can not switch back to pixel perfect display. Only when quitting the emulator and starting it again.

I also noticed that I never used the "Default refreshrate" (or the mentioned "51Hz") but always "(50Hz) PAL". I do not know the effect when the real refresh rate is 51 Hz at 352x288 but when I set it to this value (and with "VSync" and "Triple buffering") scrolling AND sound was perfect with 2.3.3. And it was pixel perfect.

Nevertheless I get two options with 2.4.1: fluid soft scrolling with noisy sound or jerking scrolling with good sound. And the blurred screen problem with 2.4.1.

I'll stick to 2.3.3 until this problem has been solved...
Attached Files
File Type: rar winuae233-log.rar (3.7 KB, 134 views)
File Type: rar winuae241-log.rar (5.2 KB, 143 views)
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Old 30 April 2012, 20:00   #13
Toni Wilen
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Logs are incomplete. Did you use "restart" GUI button? (Do not use it, quit emulation and then rerun it) Also make sure you don't select 50/60Hz low latency mode because it requires both 50Hz and 60Hz rates.

For some reason vsync calibration returned 60Hz, not 51Hz as expected.

Raster line query is reporting bogus data (apparently some simulated 60Hz rate, not real hardware rate) which mean there is no way low latency mode is going to work.

Does D3D mode also have same problem? (misc panel, DirectDraw -> Direct3D)

I removed all vsync hacks in 2.4.0 because I thought they are not needed but I guess some (XP only? and it even reports "DDCAPS_READSCANLINE" flag. Argh..) display driver hacks still require them..

Technically your display driver is broken. Traditional vblank probably worked because it waits for hardware signal.

Not sure how to fix this without reintroducing those ugly hacks, this need to wait for 2.4.2.
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Old 30 April 2012, 21:34   #14
Clark Kent
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I'll do as you requested soon! Do not know if I can do it tomorrow but soon! I'll post it here...
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Old 04 May 2012, 18:49   #15
Clark Kent
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Enclosed the log.

It's still the same as with the last beta - as soon as I set "Low Latency VSync" screen gets blurred. With "Legacy VSync" this does not happen. But switching back does not unblurr the screen again. With the latest beta sound stutters now and then. Scrolling is good with "Low Latency VSync" but screen is blurred and sound is terrible.

It's interesting that older versions offer "(50Hz) PAL" in addition to the "51Hz" my system offers. I always used "(50Hz) PAL" no matter if my screen was 51Hz.

It's also interesting that I set the screen resolution of 352x288 with 51 Hz but WinUAE shows under PAL "60.263932" - but this is not correct, as 352x288 only offers about 51 Hz. With the older 2.3.3 version of WinUAE and the settings "(50Hz) PAL" (instead of 51Hz), Tiple buffering, and "VSync" (not AutoVSync or Low Latency VSync) PAL always shows 50.000000 - and scrolling AND sound is ALWAYS absolutely perfect, like on a real Amiga...
Attached Files
File Type: rar WinUAE-log.rar (6.6 KB, 125 views)
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Old 04 May 2012, 19:54   #16
Toni Wilen
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Could you also attach your config file?
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Old 04 May 2012, 21:45   #17
Clark Kent
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Here it is!

Also enclosed a log of WinUAE 2.3.3 on my machine which is working absolutely perfect with soft as butter scrolling and perfect sound...
Attached Files
File Type: uae default.uae (11.4 KB, 130 views)
File Type: rar WinUAE233-log.rar (3.7 KB, 127 views)
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Old 05 May 2012, 16:10   #18
Toni Wilen
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Does 2.4.1b13 work better? You need to have 51Hz selected. "Default" won't work.

(Replace "FS" select boxes in filter panel with "1x" to fix blurriness. At least I think this is the reason)

EDIT: Test using http://www.winuae.net/files/b/winuae.zip (not latest beta). I did more "legacy" vsync updates and it now works fine here again. (of course non-fastest CPU modes only as usual)

Last edited by Toni Wilen; 05 May 2012 at 21:23.
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Old 06 May 2012, 07:24   #19
Clark Kent
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2.4.1b13 works now (I didn't notice first that the "null Filter" was selected after switching to "Low Latency VSync"). Screen is clear and crisp, scrolling is fluid.

BUT: Sound is terrible again now. Can't the sound be synced with the display refresh rate? There is no button for such thing...
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Old 06 May 2012, 08:55   #20
Toni Wilen
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Nice.

Does it work if you manually edit configuration file (use some text editor), find "gfx_refreshrate=51" and change it to "gfx_refreshrate=-50" ? (-something means = "Ignore whatever the display reports, this is the real rate, always use this")

Load the config, do not open Display panel or any other GUI panels, just start the emulation immediately.
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