Open Workbench

[Daedalus]

Is the whole point of your thread not to create an alternative Workbench setup that avoids copyright issues? What we're discussing is on-topic.

[Retro1234]

The idea of OpenBench is something helpful. I'm not going to have stupid comments about bootblocks etc that are totally detrimental to the community and developers.

[Daedalus]

If you want your OpenBench to be bootable, you need a bootblock, and if you want to avoid copyright issues, it needs to not be the standard Amiga OS one produced by the Install command.

Get over yourself.

[Retro1234]

I mean it, just stop! Have a day off will you. Obviously install is designed for end users to distribute public domain software.

You and you stupid comments putting future developers' software at risk. That is enough now!



Mods delete the necessary posts.

[Daedalus]

Originally Posted by Retro1234

Obviously install is designed for end users to distribute public domain software.

Where did you get that idea? The Commodore documentation certainly doesn't make any mention of using it for Public Domain software.

Look, you've started talking about a project to create a working Workbench environment that doesn't use copyrighted original code; the bootblock is explicitly called out on Cloanto's website, so how is it not helpful to your project to point that out?

You and you stupid comments putting future developers' software at risk. That is enough now!

Eh... Wat? You're the one saying things like:

Originally Posted by Retro1234

I think in general if you're just making disk that's main purpose isn't "Workbench" you can include the nescacery Libs etc

and

Originally Posted by Retro1234

Obviously install is designed for end users to distribute public domain software.

which are demonstrably false, and could lead a developer into mistakenly believing they're not using any copyrighted system code in their project.

I mean it stop now!

Calm down. You started a discussion in a public forum and now can't handle that others are continuing it. If you don't want people to join the discussion, create a blog post or something.

[Retro1234]

Moving on.........

[Minuous]

Hyperion has the rights, not Cloanto. Plus, Commodore never claimed any kind of copyright on the bootblock, and even if they had, it would be covered by fair use, eg. see the Sega vs Accolade case.

[Retro1234]

Originally Posted by Daedalus

.

I was humoring you, being nice to you,. understand. Now I won't engage with you anymore.

[Daedalus]

Originally Posted by Minuous

Hyperion has the rights, not Cloanto. Plus, Commodore never claimed any kind of copyright on the bootblock, and even if they had, it would be covered by fair use, eg. see the Sega vs Accolade case.

Well, whoever actually owns the rights is ultimately to be decided by the courts, but as things stand, Cloanto claim to have distribution rights up to and including 3.1, and behave as if that the case including filing lawsuits. As for the bootblock thing, it's news to me too that that's a potential issue, but Cloanto are claiming it as akin to the system files. I also suspect it would come under fair use, but who's gonna challenge that if threatened? Very few developers in the Amiga community would do anything other than pay the $99 or simply stop distributing their product.

[Gorf]

I mean, its not like there aren't any alternative Bootblocks out there:

http://aminet.net/package/disk/misc/BootWriter
http://aminet.net/package/dev/asm/FredoBBUtils

[Daedalus]

Yup, writing a bootblock is trivial, and that's a couple of good suggestions for Retro1234 to include instead of the Install command if desired.

[oscar_ates]

Who has the Amiga OS rights now?

[Gorf]

Originally Posted by oscar_ates

Who has the Amiga OS rights now?

Cloperion

[gulliver]

I had a similar idea long ago, I even posted it up on the web.

I, in fact, named it "FreeBench". So please be kind to use another name.
"OpenBench" seems nice.

http://lilliput.amiga-projects.net/FreeBench.htm

There is not a download on that page, but more of a short summary of what was my inital project and the results achieved.

I have the resulting adf image somewhere in an ancient backup. But to be honest, it would not be that useful anymore.

I am eager to help you, or anyone for that matter, or answer any related question to help you on your own journey if you wish to.

My adventure ended up in being caught too much into the inner workings of AmigaOS, and becoming part of the AmigaOS Team(68k) since 2017.

In any case, I always thought it would be attractive asking Hyperion for free redistribution permission of a basic set of AmigaOS system files for developers and users to enable everyone to offer their software creations in a bootable medium with some basic functionality (of course, not a complete OS).

[Retro1234]

Originally Posted by gulliver

I had a similar idea long ago, I even posted it up on the web.

I, in fact, named it "FreeBench". So please be kind to use another name.
"OpenBench" seems nice.

http://lilliput.amiga-projects.net/FreeBench.htm

There is not a download on that page, but more of a short summary of what was my inital project and the results achieved.

I have the resulting adf image somewhere in an ancient backup. But to be honest, it would not be that useful anymore.

I am eager to help you, or anyone for that matter, or answer any related question to help you on your own journey if you wish to.

My adventure ended up in being caught too much into the inner workings of AmigaOS, and becoming part of the AmigaOS Team(68k) since 2017.

In any case, I always thought it would be attractive asking Hyperion for free redistribution permission of a basic set of AmigaOS system files for developers and users to enable everyone to offer their software creations in a bootable medium with some basic functionality (of course, not a complete OS).

hehe did you see my post about calling it FreeBench that's so funny.
Please take a look its in the Zone, and if you feel like adding to it please do.
I do feel it maybe superseded by AROS completely one day but it's just a bit of fun.

[OlafSch]

Originally Posted by gulliver

I had a similar idea long ago, I even posted it up on the web.

I, in fact, named it "FreeBench". So please be kind to use another name.
"OpenBench" seems nice.

http://lilliput.amiga-projects.net/FreeBench.htm

There is not a download on that page, but more of a short summary of what was my inital project and the results achieved.

I have the resulting adf image somewhere in an ancient backup. But to be honest, it would not be that useful anymore.

I am eager to help you, or anyone for that matter, or answer any related question to help you on your own journey if you wish to.

My adventure ended up in being caught too much into the inner workings of AmigaOS, and becoming part of the AmigaOS Team(68k) since 2017.

In any case, I always thought it would be attractive asking Hyperion for free redistribution permission of a basic set of AmigaOS system files for developers and users to enable everyone to offer their software creations in a bootable medium with some basic functionality (of course, not a complete OS).

what a sad end ending in amigaos team

what was included in your distribution? What were the differences/improvements compared to standard 3.1?

And yes AROS will propably never run sufficiently on standard amiga hardware. There are several reasons, most important certainly lack of skilled developers who want to do that. But with PiStorm and Apollo there are at least options today.

[EctoOne]

Interesting project.

The only thing I'm missing so far is lha and a file manager. For a different project I stumbled across http://aminet.net/package/util/dir/mtool22 which can read lha archives directly (if lha is available I believe) so maybe it might be worth adding.

One question, where exactly do these aros files come from? I tried different downloads from the aros homepage before and wasn't able to find them.

Edit: I also suggest http://aminet.net/package/disk/misc/MyFormat1.28 instead of MFormat. It is newer and smaller. Without the Apps and Storage folders it almost fits on a disk.

[Retro1234]

Thanks for the suggestions. I'm happy to include your suggestions in the next update. I don't know when that will be. But if anyone wants to add them go ahead then I think it will truly deserve the name OpenBench.

The AROS stuff came from the nightly builds.
https://aros.sourceforge.io/nightly1.php

[EctoOne]

OK, thanks for the info. For some reason I can't properly read the iso file with uae4arm.

[modrobert]

Originally Posted by Bruce Abbott

Personally I am embracing the retro experience by 'pirating' everything in sight from that time, and I don't care if bloodsuckers like Cloanto theoretically have the rights to it. It they want people to buy their product they should consider giving their customers and all classic Amiga owners (who are still legitimate licensees of the OS that came with the machine) the right to distribute essential system files that they know we already have the rights to. This wouldn't hurt their sales at all, in fact it might even increase sales if buying their product gave you an automatic license.

Totally agree with this sentiment.

Originally Posted by Bruce Abbott

If you are afraid that 'just doing it' is too risky then the next obvious solution is to write your own replacement code, which should be made free and open source so others can also use it without fear. That innovation is what copyright laws are supposed to promote! And if that results in Cloanto losing sales that's their fault for not being reasonable.

Good point as well.

Originally Posted by gulliver

I had a similar idea long ago, I even posted it up on the web.

I, in fact, named it "FreeBench". So please be kind to use another name.
"OpenBench" seems nice.

http://lilliput.amiga-projects.net/FreeBench.htm

There is not a download on that page, but more of a short summary of what was my inital project and the results achieved.

Looks interesting.