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Old 20 May 2021, 08:45   #241
Steril707
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Quote:
Originally Posted by khayoz View Post
Let's pirate copy the f**k out of this release and send an envelope(snailmail)
with money to Thomas and Olaf(so they can split out the money to all the devs!)
instead of feeding more ca$h into court bills!

Don't forget where the money's at! Right here AMIGA community!
Yay, this kind of attitude has always worked so well for this scene/community. Usually resulting in devs leaving in droves.
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Old 20 May 2021, 09:31   #242
Olaf Barthel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by khayoz View Post
Let's pirate copy the f**k out of this release and send an envelope(snailmail)
with money to Thomas and Olaf(so they can split out the money to all the devs!)
instead of feeding more ca$h into court bills!

Don't forget where the money's at! Right here AMIGA community!
Um, while I appreciate the notion, this is not about Thomas and myself as such. The work done on AmigaOS 3.1.4/3.1.4.1 and now AmigaOS 3.2 is a team effort with everybody committing her or his spare time in order to make it happen.

Making it happen also implies that it has to reach Amiga users who can be counted, so to speak. While there may be respect in the forums, even cheering, the value of such work is ultimatively determined by how many sales are being made. And this happens regardless of whether the work done was performed on a volunteer basis or not so much. We would like to do another one of these, if they permit us, and keep doing so. The chances of this happening increase if you can find commercial value in the effort.

You decide how you want to play it, and whether or not it rubs you the wrong way in how the AmigaOS development team decided to "pay it forward". We made sacrifices, and we knew what we were committing to. But it's also been a fun experience, so don't get me wrong: we didn't travel to the peak of the mountain, occasional hardship and exhaustion included, for the challenge and the scars. There was a nice view, too, in the end
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Old 20 May 2021, 10:29   #243
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I guess one way to think of it is like the old mail order PD houses that used to charge a nominal amount for distributing disks. The original developers never got anything from that. I know the amount hyperion is charging isn't really a nominal fee but the developers did this for fun not profit - much like the many developers (of which I am one) who write stuff for the Amiga for free. I want to see more development on the Amiga OS so I'll gladly pay for that.
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Old 20 May 2021, 12:59   #244
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One big Amiga Tick from me, very grateful for the Classic AmigaOS still being updated. I’m quite excited about getting hold of this update.
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Old 20 May 2021, 13:14   #245
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The ability for us Amiga users to be able and enjoy new Amiga OS in 2021 and after almost 30 years where Commodore died, i can only describe it as Extreme Luck and Luxury!!! So the least for us users and amiga fans to do in order to keep this going and congratulate the devs for all the time and effort that they have put into this, is to go ahead and buy / support and embrace this whole movement. Otherwise we will end up using a terribly old OS (just because we love amigas and there is nothing else out there for us) and go around in circles doing the same things over and over again.

What the devs are doing is not for us to decide, but we should be here and support / reward their effort and be thankfull for it. Amiga community has always suffered from miserable people who just see the wrong side to everything and never the good one. But i find it so hard to believe that even during such exciting times with new OS's in the last 3 years and new hardware coming out in 2021, they still find things to complain about. Myself i have ordered 2 copies of Amiga OS 3.2 not because i need both of them but just to help in eliminating the harm other people wll do by not supporting this effort for whatever reason.

Well done to everyone who was and still is involved in this. You all keep our dream alive.

Thank you
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Old 20 May 2021, 13:33   #246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by npagonis73 View Post
The ability for us Amiga users to be able and enjoy new Amiga OS in 2021 and after almost 30 years where Commodore died, i can only describe it as Extreme Luck and Luxury!!! So the least for us users and amiga fans to do in order to keep this going and congratulate the devs for all the time and effort that they have put into this, is to go ahead and buy / support and embrace this whole movement. Otherwise we will end up using a terribly old OS (just because we love amigas and there is nothing else out there for us) and go around in circles doing the same things over and over again.

What the devs are doing is not for us to decide, but we should be here and support / reward their effort and be thankfull for it. Amiga community has always suffered from miserable people who just see the wrong side to everything and never the good one. But i find it so hard to believe that even during such exciting times with new OS's in the last 3 years and new hardware coming out in 2021, they still find things to complain about. Myself i have ordered 2 copies of Amiga OS 3.2 not because i need both of them but just to help in eliminating the harm other people wll do by not supporting this effort for whatever reason.

Well done to everyone who was and still is involved in this. You all keep our dream alive.

Thank you
Sry to say that but in my vocabulary " no money no honey"...
Nonetheless support after 30 years must be a phenomenal in IT.
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Old 20 May 2021, 14:25   #247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by npagonis73 View Post
The ability for us Amiga users to be able and enjoy new Amiga OS in 2021 and after almost 30 years where Commodore died, i can only describe it as Extreme Luck and Luxury!!! So the least for us users and amiga fans to do in order to keep this going and congratulate the devs for all the time and effort that they have put into this, is to go ahead and buy / support and embrace this whole movement. Otherwise we will end up using a terribly old OS (just because we love amigas and there is nothing else out there for us) and go around in circles doing the same things over and over again.

What the devs are doing is not for us to decide, but we should be here and support / reward their effort and be thankfull for it. Amiga community has always suffered from miserable people who just see the wrong side to everything and never the good one. But i find it so hard to believe that even during such exciting times with new OS's in the last 3 years and new hardware coming out in 2021, they still find things to complain about. Myself i have ordered 2 copies of Amiga OS 3.2 not because i need both of them but just to help in eliminating the harm other people wll do by not supporting this effort for whatever reason.

Well done to everyone who was and still is involved in this. You all keep our dream alive.

Thank you
Whoa, nice nuanced opinion, just like khayoz
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Old 20 May 2021, 15:14   #248
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Well it seems to me (from a distance) that the only option for things like 3.2 and further to happen involve Hyperion. It seems unlikely that Hyperion will gracefully bow out and allow the rights to be picked up elsewhere if there are insufficient commercial sales. Therefore if we wish to see any such development we need to encourage Hyperion to allow/generate it.
If developers are willing to work effectively for the satisfaction of seeing the development (which seems to be the case above and is to be applauded), and the normal community also wants to see development, then logically we need to buy 3.2.
So I have.
This has nothing to do with any personal views of Hyperion etc or desires for better development models that reward developers, this is just how I see it from a "This is how it is" point of view.
This is an exciting time all round with both hardware and software developments for our amiga's, it feels like there is a bit of momentum at the minute. It would be a shame to lose that.
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Old 20 May 2021, 16:18   #249
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Olaf Barthel View Post
You decide how you want to play it, and whether or not it rubs you the wrong way in how the AmigaOS development team decided to "pay it forward". We made sacrifices, and we knew what we were committing to. But it's also been a fun experience, so don't get me wrong: we didn't travel to the peak of the mountain, occasional hardship and exhaustion included, for the challenge and the scars. There was a nice view, too, in the end
This is a "fucked if I do, fucked if I don't" situation for a lot of people, and I think, had this not be this way, was the money to go straight to the only people that matter (the devs), I honestly believe you would be able to reach many more of the "users that can be counted" via sales, because I love what you do, and your choices are of course yours to make, but i'll be fucked if I give any cent to a company that holds everything back so much. And I don't think I am the only one that feels this way.

Let's stop portraying Hyperion here as some kind of savior that "allows" this to happen. This is some sad, sad bullshit situation and it really pisses me off, as a long time Amiga user, as an Amiga developer, that every time these issues pop up, the common reaction nowadays is to shut it down, and to cut Hyperion slack. If we can't even discuss this ourselves, this will never get resolved, and I refuse to believe that this cannot be resolved in a manner that would benefit the userbase better.

It is not OK for me to let Hyperion get money so they further increase their choking grasp on AmigaOS's neck. But it is also not OK to not support this fantastic development and the real people involved behind it.

Things shouldn't be this way
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Old 20 May 2021, 16:47   #250
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Originally Posted by Akira View Post
This is a "fucked if I do, fucked if I don't" situation for a lot of people, and I think, had this not be this way, was the money to go straight to the only people that matter (the devs), I honestly believe you would be able to reach many more of the "users that can be counted" via sales, because I love what you do, and your choices are of course yours to make, but i'll be fucked if I give any cent to a company that holds everything back so much. And I don't think I am the only one that feels this way.

Let's stop portraying Hyperion here as some kind of savior that "allows" this to happen. This is some sad, sad bullshit situation and it really pisses me off, as a long time Amiga user, as an Amiga developer, that every time these issues pop up, the common reaction nowadays is to shut it down, and to cut Hyperion slack. If we can't even discuss this ourselves, this will never get resolved, and I refuse to believe that this cannot be resolved in a manner that would benefit the userbase better.

It is not OK for me to let Hyperion get money so they further increase their choking grasp on AmigaOS's neck. But it is also not OK to not support this fantastic development and the real people involved behind it.

Things shouldn't be this way
The way I see it is that

a) things are moving.
b) all the devs knew what they were up to and are not complaining
c) some of the money flows back into things like buying back Reaction UI
d) we get a professional product
e) not that I am huge fan of Hyperion, but at least they got some stuff going over the last 15 years, on the contrary to Cloanto who have the Amiga IP for over two years now and DIDN'T DO JACK SHIT WITH IT except being IP trolls about it as far as I have heard.
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Old 20 May 2021, 16:55   #251
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Floppy disk

Quote:
Originally Posted by gulliver View Post
No change regarding the DMA issue.

Please read section 14 of the FAQ (CDTV & CD32) and let me know if you have doubts.
I've ordered the CD and chips for my 1200 and 500+
I have CDTV and saw this about extended ROMs - I had the problem with the 2.30 missing 2MB memory which was due to the Kluges in it being for the 500 so i use the 2.7 ROMs - these work fine

Looking forward to trying the OS on all my machines
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Old 20 May 2021, 18:45   #252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boemann View Post
You are misunderstang what deficons does - it does provide the type as a string

It is icon.library that then opens the corresponding icon.

Yes the name deficons might suggest it returns the actual icon but it doesn't

it does however know what icon files are available, and if the type doesn't have an icon it returns the name of the parent type (recursively), but it is still only a type name
I gave a quite accurate description of what DefIcons was made for and what it does ("DefIcons was born as a tool that identifies the type of files that don't come with icons and assigns them virtual icons according to its findings and to the relevant default icons") - and that's corroborated by the official documentation (this excerpt is from the doc in the AmigaOS 4.1 FE CD and in the distro archive on Aminet):

"DefIcons turns any faked icon (displayed when you pick the menu item Window/Show/All Files) into a more meaningful one. Depending on its prefs file, the program can identify different filetypes and supply an appropiate icon for each of them."

I'm pointing this out to make it clear that what I'm saying and what I'm proposing (even just for the sake of abstract conversation) is not born out of a misunderstanding from my side, but is based on pretty solid grounds.

In this conversation you revealed that at some point DefIcons was given also the function of returning the type of files upon request (and that the API to make use of such function is not public), and I pointed out that such design isn't clean and that having icon.library as the interface for DefIcons makes things even worse (I won't repeat again the reasons: they are explained in my previous posts). I'm not pointing fingers, just saying the current design is less than ideal (explaining why).
By the way, while writing here, I realized another negative aspect of the design: there's some overlap with the datatypes system, which also performs some file type recognition. Just imagine if the design were like the one I proposed earlier: if a well-defined, dedicated file type recognition engine existed - let's call it filetypes.library, for example - DefIcons / datatypes / your favourite file manager / etc. could very easily have files recognized for them, and the system would be leaner (no code duplication and bloat), faster, more robust, modular, expandible.
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Old 21 May 2021, 00:34   #253
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amigastore.eu claim to have 3.2 in stock, just ordered mine, thanx devs!

edit:

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyc View Post
This has nothing to do with any personal views of Hyperion etc or desires for better development models that reward developers, this is just how I see it from a "This is how it is" point of view.
This is an exciting time all round with both hardware and software developments for our amiga's, it feels like there is a bit of momentum at the minute. It would be a shame to lose that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steril707 View Post
The way I see it is that

a) things are moving.
b) all the devs knew what they were up to and are not complaining
c) some of the money flows back into things like buying back Reaction UI
d) we get a professional product
e) not that I am huge fan of Hyperion, but at least they got some stuff going over the last 15 years, on the contrary to Cloanto who have the Amiga IP for over two years now and DIDN'T DO JACK SHIT WITH IT except being IP trolls about it as far as I have heard.
exactly!

Last edited by systmcrsh; 21 May 2021 at 00:43.
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Old 21 May 2021, 00:45   #254
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I like new software, I bought it. Thank you Hyperion and thank you developers!
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Old 21 May 2021, 00:58   #255
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Originally Posted by aeberbach View Post
I like new software, I bought it. Thank you Hyperion and thank you developers!

I don't think there's anything to thank Hyperion for. For years Hyperion blocked the further development of AmigaOS 3.x and only when they found out that it was one of the only ways to squeeze more money, the situation changed...


All my thanks go to the developers!
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Old 21 May 2021, 01:05   #256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steril707 View Post
The way I see it is that

a) things are moving.
b) all the devs knew what they were up to and are not complaining
c) some of the money flows back into things like buying back Reaction UI
d) we get a professional product
e) not that I am huge fan of Hyperion, but at least they got some stuff going over the last 15 years, on the contrary to Cloanto who have the Amiga IP for over two years now and DIDN'T DO JACK SHIT WITH IT except being IP trolls about it as far as I have heard.

I don't think the situation is that simple. Cloanto don't have key developers like Olaf and Thomas and I am not sure they could have developed AmigaOS for another company after they got "involved" with Hyperion. (Am I wrong?)


Also can somebody explain to me "buying back Reaction UI"? I thought it is just backport from AOS4.
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Old 21 May 2021, 01:32   #257
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Hi Saimo!

Quote:
Originally Posted by saimo View Post
By the way, while writing here, I realized another negative aspect of the design: there's some overlap with the datatypes system, which also performs some file type recognition. Just imagine if the design were like the one I proposed earlier: if a well-defined, dedicated file type recognition engine existed - let's call it filetypes.library, for example - DefIcons / datatypes / your favourite file manager / etc. could very easily have files recognized for them, and the system would be leaner (no code duplication and bloat), faster, more robust, modular, expandible.
There's the WhatIs.library, but I'm not sure how much it was/is used by programs... but, to the point of the discussion, it's used by IconAdder, which "uses the WhatIs.Library to find the file type, and then adds an icon according to it's type."

Cheers!
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Old 21 May 2021, 06:04   #258
Steril707
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Originally Posted by ExiE View Post
I don't think the situation is that simple. Cloanto don't have key developers like Olaf and Thomas and I am not sure they could have developed AmigaOS for another company after they got "involved" with Hyperion. (Am I wrong?)
What kept them from doing anything for the Amiga. Doesn't need to be the OS.
Wake me up when Cloanto/AMIGA does something worthwhile.
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Old 21 May 2021, 06:30   #259
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Originally Posted by aeberbach View Post
I like new software, I bought it. Thank you Hyperion and thank you developers!
thats a good enough reason dude, don't let haters talk you out of it or make you regret it

can't we just have a thread about how cool it is that 3.2 is out? or does it always have to devolve into an argument about crap?
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Old 21 May 2021, 10:20   #260
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We all are happy for the new version, but these issues needs to be talked about .. It is very crazy that a company that got a contract to port the OS to PPC (worth $25000) is still in the courts claiming they are some kind of owner..

And Cloanto that delivers Winuae on a disc, year after year like a Fifa game, what a waste of potential and momentum... Where would these two companies be without these copyrights ? Not in the Amiga scene that is for sure Read more: https://sites.google.com/site/amigad...f-the-AmigaOS-
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