Gods reverse engineering

[Kroah]

Originally Posted by Amiga Forever

How do you Convert ST Graphics(16 Colours) into Amiga Graphics(32 Colours)? Did you change Colours Palettes or somethings?

Mmmh, i don't know if i correctly understand what you mean.

The viewer use the Atari gfx (from a ST dump) or the Amiga gfx (from an ADF dump), I do no conversion between both systems.

By the way, the Amiga and PC version of gods don't use more than 16 colors for the sprites because they come from the Atari version (gfx ported by the Bitmap Brother team). Only the raster effect is enhanced: Atari ST < Amiga (= STe). Some sprites have been added for the Amiga and PC, giving more variety to the maps (see the ladders and friezes).

Did you mean something else?

[Amiga Forever]

By the way, the Amiga and PC version of gods don't use more than 16 colors for the sprites because they come from the Atari version (gfx ported by the Bitmap Brother team). Only the raster effect is enhanced: Atari ST < Amiga (= STe). Some sprites have been added for the Amiga and PC, giving more variety to the maps (see the ladders and friezes).

Did you mean something else?

I see.....Interesting.....What I thought was that most of the ATARI ST games were 16 Colours and when come to Porting to the Amiga as Game company didn't time to increase the colours for Amiga as it was Straight ST Port game for Amiga back then

Thank you explain on how you have done it

[Leo42]

Nice work!

One thing I'm wondering: how do they handle the "lifetime" of sprites ? I mean: what happens when an object goes out of the (visible) screen ? Is it removed from memory ? What happens if the player goes back to this area: is the sprite simply activated again ? Was it actually still "running" but simply not displayed ?
They sure can't let all objects found inside the map alive...

[gimbal]

They sure can't let all objects found inside the map alive...

Why not? Each sprite only has to be a few bytes of data in memory.

[Leo42]

Originally Posted by gimbal

Why not? Each sprite only has to be a few bytes of data in memory.

Because it would be slow to iterate through, let's say 150 sprites, as opposed to only 10 visible ones ?

[jimmy2x2x]

a method for selecting which sprites to process is horizontal banding.

All sprites are sorted in Y order (top left of map = 0,0)

current_mapY = current location in map
screen_height = number of vertical map pixels displayed on screen

only process sprites that are within this range:
(current_mapY-screen_height) to (current_mapY+screen_height*2)

this limits the number of sprites to process and gives the illusion of a living map

[Leo42]

@jimmy2x2x: thanks! That's an interesting trick! Does it mean sprite list needs to be reordered (in case sprites' y position gets updated) ?

Maybe a reorder method could be called from time to time ? I guess y's sprite don't change that much.

[jimmy2x2x]

depends on how fast the game moves and how adventurous the enemies are, there are lots of different methods, this is just one example.

[Codetapper]

Originally Posted by Leo42

@jimmy2x2x: thanks! That's an interesting trick! Does it mean sprite list needs to be reordered (in case sprites' y position gets updated) ?

Maybe a reorder method could be called from time to time ? I guess y's sprite don't change that much.

Believe it or not, a simple bubblesort is sometimes used by games once the initial list of objects is sorted.

If it's the type of game where only the odd object will move around, you usually only have to swap a couple of objects and a bubblesort is pretty efficient in this case!

[JohnnyWalker]

Sorry for resurrecting an old thread, but I'm reading UNIVERSE at the moment and it's sparked an interest in the Bitmap's games (specifically the Eric Matthews ones). Kroah's work is utterly timeless so I hope it doesn't matter. Thanks for doing such an incredible job in allowing us to interpret Gods.

JOTD, did you ever integrate this information into your Gods remake? I recently played (and finally finished without any cheats) Gods Remastered. The remastered artwork made me want to puke, and the lack of "Into the Wonderful" was sacrilegious, but playing in original graphics mode is still amazing. (I currently have the best speedrun time on the PS4 network

There's a message part way through the game about a "huge speed bonus", but I don't know if I ever triggered the actual bonus. You can see the message here: [ Show youtube player ]

Does anyone know where it is?

[jotd]

JOTD, did you ever integrate this information into your Gods remake?

Absolutely. I set almost all monster health params from Kroah editor by hand. It was a tedious task.
But I also got the disassembly (IDA) by Kroah which allowed me to tune the weapon power/upgrades and enemies hits depending on the difficulty level (which changes at start of level 4 BTW...). There are also other special rules, like: player hasn't taken weapons that are powerful enough, so the game awards some extra hits to compensate.

That info isn't in the editor, it's in the code

I recently played (and finally finished without any cheats) Gods Remastered. The remastered artwork made me want to puke, and the lack of "Into the Wonderful" was sacrilegious, but playing in original graphics mode is still amazing.

Agreed, agreed, agreed. I just saw your video and I still think that when the character climbs to ladders, it's too "smooth". Try to climb a ladder with a continuous speed... I find that not natural... Why redoing the game just to add crap graphics or allow the EXACT same game, but with some worse features... AND NO BLOODY NEW LEVELS!!! WHAAAT? cash cow...

There's a message part way through the game about a "huge speed bonus", but I don't know if I ever triggered the actual bonus. You can see the message here:

You'll have to be more specific. As you linked to the whole video... Are you talking about the huge bonus of level 2 world 3?

[JohnnyWalker]

Wow, that’s an amazing feat. It really bothers me so much that none of the remasters have been able to capture the magic of the originals. Part of me wants to try and Crowdsource a new remaster for many of them. Bring the original artists back. Just get everything the same but better.

I know that the people who worked on the remastered had access to the original source code, which just feels like cheating Do you think you managed to uncover every single rule in the game?

The video was supposed to link to the exact spot. It’s 25:30. Level 2 World 2 I think. See if it rings a bell. How do you know if you got the huge bonus? Do you have to avoid getting the Crystal to help you defeat the dragon?

[jotd]

Yeah, I know that one.

from the walkthrough (that I may have mixed from various sources)

LEVEL 2 - WORLD 3

Immediately go to the left or you'll be "trapped" in the corner.
There is nothing special in the first part of this level. The ideal order to the
the 4 rooms in the
corridor on you right is Room 2 - 3 - 4 - 3 - 1
After finishing the mosaic you come to the second part of this level, more difficult
because a lot of monsters attack you.

HERE'S THE INTERESTING PART:

Activate shield at once and run in all monsters / snake pots: this will save you
time for the speed bonus puzzle.

Use first key on the lever on the far right to release the hidden platform. Use
the second key for
the hidden door in the middle (speed bonus waiting down there but hard to
get unless you followed my advice and activated the shield!!!). Then jump over
the closed trapdoors. Get candle on the right (use moving platform), then get
key on the left and let
yourself fall down through the trap door in the middle of the platform your now
standing (this will
reveal the key for the room with the extra-life on the right!).

Return ALL levers to the 'up' position in this world, then 2 of the 3 spikes guarding
the cross will disappear to let you through.

Just after taking the cross, if you reach up the ladder in 300 seconds (hence the shield
part!) you'll be rewarded by a huge speed bonus: 1 or 2 lives and fire chrystals. Worth it!!
(if you think you're late, just skip the cross and the bonus room to reach the bonus, and get
them later)

And no, that still allows you to get the cross!

No need for the source code for the puzzles. Just get the level viewer that Kroah created: http://bringerp.free.fr/RE/Gods/utility.php5

[JohnnyWalker]

Ah! It's getting to the ladder by the cross within 300 seconds. Amazing. Thank you!

[Retro1234]

They could never recreate the atmosphere but most of the Bitmap Brothers games had a sequel but not God's?

[BippyM]

Originally Posted by Retro1234

They could never recreate the atmosphere but most of the Bitmap Brothers games had a sequel but not God's?

Magic pockets and cadaver didn't either
.

Xenon 2, speedball 2.. They didn't have a sequel either

[jotd]

I wish Gods had a sequel. Cadaver had a level pack (The Payoff). Same mechanics, but as much a sequel than Super Mario Bros 2 Japan is to Super Mario Bros.

[lilalurl]

Originally Posted by JohnnyWalker

The video was supposed to link to the exact spot. It’s 25:30. Level 2 World 2 I think.

Actually it is 25:42. Your link is indeed marked with the timestamp, but the embedding in vbulletin seems to bypass this.

People can access the link with the time stamp by quoting your post and manually copy/pasting it.

Next time, you'd better post the time as well as the video link to be sure.

[Dastardly]

The Chaos Engine never got a sequel either. Shame that.

[BarryB]

Originally Posted by Dastardly

The Chaos Engine never got a sequel either. Shame that.

So what was The Chaos Engine 2? HOL specifically states:

Relationship: is a sequel to Chaos Engine, The