Terrible Fire 534 68030 board.. question

[patrik]

Originally Posted by Chucky

well it is not that it is designed as "hehehe lets fuck around with those with...."

no. it would require the designer having ALL different equipment at home.. this is a unrealistic demand.

let me say like this: before the TF53x cards there was NO open 030 solution..
with thisthere is.

so what you say is: better not have a open 030 solution. better to have only the old cards that cannot be produced anymore as all data is lost since ever..

so welcome to 030 card costing many many hundreds of euros..


but I guess people are not thankful what there is...

I think its great that the TF cards have been made, are open and everything.

I just want to have a discussion around the the fact that designs which breaks the memory model, DMA, or what we want to call it creates lots of problems.

It should be ok to say that design which stops the computers expansion bus from working as intended/specified, is incompatible etc. Apparently, given the number of posts with people with this kind of issues, it is not talked about anywhere near enough.

If anyone needs testing this, any DMA card would do, they are plentiful.

The new TF cards, as I understand, do not put memory in the first 16MB area and thus avoids this problem, so that is awesome - the experience of the previous bad design has been used and everyone will benefit greatly from that!

As you, I don't understand why the old cards are being produced. If users were more informed about these issues with them, I doubt they would be selling them instead of the new ones.

[Chucky]

well it is not "just" DMA. as GVP SCSI controllers seems to work. so yes. you need to test every hardware. it is not "bad design" it is simply that there are so many solutions outthere.. it is not possible to test all combos.

[brufnus]

Hi, I have a similar question, which I thought I could just as well throw here, too.

I know I'm on the edge with this one, but I took my chances nonetheless and purchased a TF534 from AmigaStore for my CDTV, which was recently upgraded with 8 MB Fast RAM on the diagnostics port, a SCSI controller, KS3.2, Extended ROM 2.30, and AmigaOS3.2.

However, when I plug in the TF, I get green or black screen, the LED on the front stays off or flashes, depending on how I set my jumper on the TF or the CDTV (for disabling the CD-ROM and CDTV functions).
It may be uphill or perhaps even impossible with this upgrade, but I was hoping nonetheless, that a terminator pack swap, a couple of resistors somewhere or a different KS/Extended ROM set could solve the problem.
The TF is an overclocked (48MHz) version; that could also be a bad idea, of course...
Does any of you have any experience or knowledge about this?

P.S. Removing SCSI-controller, Fast RAM, floppy connector, etc. makes no difference.

[Malakie]

Ok, Been playing a lot with the Terrible Fire 534 I asked 68030 card I was working with.

I have it working flawless except for its compatibility with SCSI HD cards... which is not going to change of course.

I ordered this for the A2000 I have, plugged it and it worked perfectly from that moment, nothing else needed. I finally found a mini connector cable for the IDE and then plugged in a standard IDE HD, booted the machine and used HDTools and there it was, all ready to be formatted.

So, unless you must have SCSI, this thing works perfectly fine on the A2000..

I am not sure why some felt the need to say this would not or could not work on the A2000 though, especially since they include a slot adapter for that very reason. Works perfectly fine.

[Malakie]

Originally Posted by brufnus

Hi, I have a similar question, which I thought I could just as well throw here, too.

I know I'm on the edge with this one, but I took my chances nonetheless and purchased a TF534 from AmigaStore for my CDTV, which was recently upgraded with 8 MB Fast RAM on the diagnostics port, a SCSI controller, KS3.2, Extended ROM 2.30, and AmigaOS3.2.

However, when I plug in the TF, I get green or black screen, the LED on the front stays off or flashes, depending on how I set my jumper on the TF or the CDTV (for disabling the CD-ROM and CDTV functions).
It may be uphill or perhaps even impossible with this upgrade, but I was hoping nonetheless, that a terminator pack swap, a couple of resistors somewhere or a different KS/Extended ROM set could solve the problem.
The TF is an overclocked (48MHz) version; that could also be a bad idea, of course...
Does any of you have any experience or knowledge about this?

P.S. Removing SCSI-controller, Fast RAM, floppy connector, etc. makes no difference.

Possible you got a bad one? If you have an actual Amiga, try it in that and see what happens.

I plugged mine into my A2000 and it worked perfectly right off the top, no changes or config issues other than it cannot work with SCSI cards, and that's why it has an IDE interface as well.

[Malakie]

Originally Posted by patrik

I think its great that the TF cards have been made, are open and everything.

I just want to have a discussion around the the fact that designs which breaks the memory model, DMA, or what we want to call it creates lots of problems.

It should be ok to say that design which stops the computers expansion bus from working as intended/specified, is incompatible etc. Apparently, given the number of posts with people with this kind of issues, it is not talked about anywhere near enough.

If anyone needs testing this, any DMA card would do, they are plentiful.

The new TF cards, as I understand, do not put memory in the first 16MB area and thus avoids this problem, so that is awesome - the experience of the previous bad design has been used and everyone will benefit greatly from that!

As you, I don't understand why the old cards are being produced. If users were more informed about these issues with them, I doubt they would be selling them instead of the new ones.

I don't agree that it is a "bad" design.. Other than the DMA channel issue with the A2091 card, every other card and item I have plugged in, works just fine that I have tried so far.

[patrik]

@Malakie: Wouldn't it be a better card if it didn't break compatibility with the Zorro2 bus memory model and was compatible with cards which use DMA?

[Malakie]

Originally Posted by patrik

@Malakie: Wouldn't it be a better card if it didn't break compatibility with the Zorro2 bus memory model and was compatible with cards which use DMA?

Of course it would be better.. but when you figure a guy on his own went ahead and created this thing by himself when no one else was really supporting new hardware, it's pretty nice because it gave A2000's cheap easy acceleration and a working IDE HD compatibility, which I like... only bummer, he should have used a standard IDE cable connector size, not the mini because finding mini cables supporting multiple drives are impossible to find.

[Chucky]

take a good look on many other older 030 cards and they also had issues with some..

and again: it is a hobbyproject. it is impossible to test all combinations.. why didn't you send him an A2000 and a scsi controller to test it when he developed it?

[Malakie]

Originally Posted by Chucky

take a good look on many other older 030 cards and they also had issues with some..

and again: it is a hobbyproject. it is impossible to test all combinations.. why didn't you send him an A2000 and a scsi controller to test it when he developed it?

Why did you send this post to me? I BOUGHT one and am using it without issue outside the SCSI issue that I did not know existed... I am not knocking the guy that made it, I am supporting him...

While the SCSI issue exists, where did I say anything negative in any of my posts? I didn't.

[Chucky]

It was to Patrik...

[brufnus]

Originally Posted by Malakie

Possible you got a bad one? If you have an actual Amiga, try it in that and see what happens.

I plugged mine into my A2000 and it worked perfectly right off the top, no changes or config issues other than it cannot work with SCSI cards, and that's why it has an IDE interface as well.

Yes, well unfortunately I don't have a std. A500, but I may have access to one. It could be faulty, yes... that's perfectly possible. I did get some suggestions from Stephen though; he mentioned removing the extended ROM's and installing a KS3.1 instead.
I'll try some of these things and see what happens. c",) For what it's worth, I've just ordered one of these new PiStorm CPU emulators and a Raspberry; what these are capable of sounds awesome and by far surpasses the 534.
One way or another, I'll get rid of that slow 68000 CPU, if it's the last thing I do!

[Malakie]

Originally Posted by brufnus

Yes, well unfortunately I don't have a std. A500, but I may have access to one. It could be faulty, yes... that's perfectly possible. I did get some suggestions from Stephen though; he mentioned removing the extended ROM's and installing a KS3.1 instead.
I'll try some of these things and see what happens. c",) For what it's worth, I've just ordered one of these new PiStorm CPU emulators and a Raspberry; what these are capable of sounds awesome and by far surpasses the 534.
One way or another, I'll get rid of that slow 68000 CPU, if it's the last thing I do!

Can you link the cpu emulator/raspberry thing and what it does or is? Am still playing 30 year catchup myself with Amiga so also looking for other possibilities as well.

[brufnus]

Certainly! Amigastore has it, even a complete kit with Raspberry, preinstalled SD-card, etc. I didn't buy mine there, though... perhaps I should have done that instead. c".)

https://amigastore.eu/853-pistorm.html

Anyway, it's basically a "PC style emulator" (running Linux on a Raspberry Pi), which sits in the CPU socket via an adapter board. It enables selecting either a 68000, 68010, -> 68040 CPU depending on your mood and applications/games, it offers up to 136 MB (!) of Fast RAM, Wi-Fi (!) and supports both block devices and HDF images. Finally it can use it's HDMI output for high resolution graphics, there's an USB port and sound port available as well.
There's a delay initially because it has to boot and load it's emulator of course; however, after that, loading WB takes about 3 seconds! c".)
I saw a video of it, and it far surpasses the A4000 in speed (sysinfo). It's cheap, upgradeable and configurable via a Secure Shell (ssh). Linux knowledge comes in handy of course, but the config is well documented and, once done, it can boot into the emulator "CPU" automatically.

I just got the Pi today and the adapter should be here in a few days... I look forward to test this ingenious accelerator! :-D

Oh, and by the way - you can choose which kickstart to use as well (and extended ROM's in case of a CDTV).

[Malakie]

Originally Posted by brufnus

Certainly! Amigastore has it, even a complete kit with Raspberry, preinstalled SD-card, etc. I didn't buy mine there, though... perhaps I should have done that instead. c".)

https://amigastore.eu/853-pistorm.html

Anyway, it's basically a "PC style emulator" (running Linux on a Raspberry Pi), which sits in the CPU socket via an adapter board. It enables selecting either a 68000, 68010, -> 68040 CPU depending on your mood and applications/games, it offers up to 136 MB (!) of Fast RAM, Wi-Fi (!) and supports both block devices and HDF images. Finally it can use it's HDMI output for high resolution graphics, there's an USB port and sound port available as well.
There's a delay initially because it has to boot and load it's emulator of course; however, after that, loading WB takes about 3 seconds! c".)
I saw a video of it, and it far surpasses the A4000 in speed (sysinfo). It's cheap, upgradeable and configurable via a Secure Shell (ssh). Linux knowledge comes in handy of course, but the config is well documented and, once done, it can boot into the emulator "CPU" automatically.

I just got the Pi today and the adapter should be here in a few days... I look forward to test this ingenious accelerator! :-D

Oh, and by the way - you can choose which kickstart to use as well (and extended ROM's in case of a CDTV).

Ok, so you mean it is literally running emulation software ON an actual Amiga? I.E. bypassing the hardware pretty much to process whatever you run on it?

Doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose of the actual Amiga hardware if you are installing an emulator inside that takes over the work?

[Chucky]

the emulator only emulates the cpu. nothing else

[Malakie]

Originally Posted by Chucky

the emulator only emulates the cpu. nothing else

So any boards or other hardware in the Amiga are fully used by this thing properly?

[Chucky]

Yes.. compability with ohters boards might be something I do not know about.

but in short: it is a cpu emulator.. the rest of the machine is the "old one"
but as a bonus you get to access the raspberry pi hdmi as a RTG card. ethernet etc etc

[Malakie]

Originally Posted by Chucky

Yes.. compability with ohters boards might be something I do not know about.

but in short: it is a cpu emulator.. the rest of the machine is the "old one"
but as a bonus you get to access the raspberry pi hdmi as a RTG card. ethernet etc etc

For me the other question is the graphics output.. does it allow for both Amiga and HDMI video at the same time? I hate emulator video output because there is no aliasing and everything looks blocky, especially text, when compared to standard Amiga video output.

[Chucky]

it is RTG output.. nothing else. I think they are working on a scandoubler-addon?