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Old 16 March 2021, 23:32   #21
drHirudo
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It's amazing how many CRT TVs are still in use. Here are 3 working well last time I switched them on:

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[ Show youtube player ]

I can also get Commodore 1085S, Sony Trinitron and many other good CRT monitors and TVs. Security people are using them all the time for watching TV series during night shifts.

They have pretty nice picture, but no thanks, I will stick to my BenQ EL2870U 4K HDR 1ms Gaming Monitor.
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Old 17 March 2021, 00:05   #22
Foebane
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Originally Posted by drHirudo View Post
I will stick to my BenQ EL2870U 4K HDR 1ms Gaming Monitor.
I like BenQ monitors, they have the 50Hz option that is ideal for Amiga emulation, and I use Amiga emulation so much, it is the ONLY refresh rate I use, even for PC games.

But I decided years ago to settle on 1080p MAX, and will never consider that 4K or HDR crap that you have. I mean, WHY? Those modes require beefy graphics cards that cost a fortune now and only bastard scalpers can provide on Ebay, so why limit yourself?

And I don't have a graphics card AT ALL, only integrated graphics (THANK YOU, UHD 630) even if the games are older, but I don't like modern crappy games neither.

Why people are pushing 4K is beyond me, especially since it would be too big and too close sitting on my sideboard where I use my computer 24/7, and it would be utter MORONICITY to sit so far away from it that you seriously couldn't tell the difference between it and 1080p. And too expensive, too.

So why do people push 4K when 1080p is absolutely adequate?

EDIT: HOWEVER, I did watch your CRT reviews and enjoyed them. The flatscreen CRT I mentioned looks like it's from the same range as the Philips one you reviewed (3rd video) but smaller and less generous with the inputs. I do lament getting rid of that CRT, it wasn't even broken when I did.

Last edited by Foebane; 17 March 2021 at 00:19.
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Old 17 March 2021, 00:18   #23
saimon69
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Have here a Philips HDTV CRT model 30PW850H37A flat screen CRT that my sister in law want to get rid of, has no more remote but is still working fine;
if you are in Los Angeles county area PM me, she ask for $50 negotiable; just have a truck or car handy since is kinda heavy^^
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Old 17 March 2021, 00:21   #24
saimon69
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So why do people push 4K when 1080p is absolutely adequate?
Paraphrasing someone we know, 1080p should be enough for everybody ^^
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Old 17 March 2021, 00:25   #25
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So why do people push 4K when 1080p is absolutely adequate?

1440p in 27" is the sweep spot. Razor sharp font quality, and in 144Hz with a smooth mouse movement. I can never go back to 1080 monitors with a 60-75Hz refreshrate. It's night and day.
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Old 17 March 2021, 00:26   #26
alexh
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They could sell them on Ebay, but most don't bother, they think NO-ONE wants them, which is most likely the mindset of old people.
No one does want them. I put all my CRTs on eBay at first (32" Sony Trinitron widescreen, two 19" Iiama Vison Master Pro's, 28" Bush 4:3) all in perfect working condition. No bids, not even at 99p. I offered them on Freecycle. No one interested. Eventually I took them to the council for recycling.
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Old 17 March 2021, 00:52   #27
Foebane
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1440p in 27" is the sweep spot. Razor sharp font quality, and in 144Hz with a smooth mouse movement. I can never go back to 1080 monitors with a 60-75Hz refreshrate. It's night and day.
My monitor is 1080p AND 50Hz, MAX.

I would say 50Hz actually helps modern PC games, as it cuts down on the frames per second they need to render.
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Old 17 March 2021, 01:00   #28
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Fashion is a part of it, but you can't really dismiss the importance of the depth or weight of them so easily. It's easy to fit a couple of 27" monitors on any desk, but a 21" Trinitron needs a *big* desk, and a strong one too. I loved my 21" Trinitron, and the Amiga looked great on it whether it was a native screenmode (via a scandoubler) or a 1600x1200 75Hz Workbench screen from my Voodoo3, but the tradeoff in space and lack of portability mean it's simply not worth it compared to my current setup with far higher screen real-estate both in pixel terms and in absolute area, and the extra space on my desk (my entire soldering and rework setup fits the same space that monitor took up).

It's all about the compromise, and everyone's point where one option simply isn't worthwhile any more is always going to be different. For my main TV, I very nearly bought a Full HD CRT when they were available, but the few models available just didn't suit. In the end I switched to a decent plasma, which is still going strong and still great for Amigas and other retro systems.
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Old 17 March 2021, 01:52   #29
Photon
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I'm glad my 32" CRT RGB Scart TV is still working perfectly. <3 5 years BC (Before Corona) I managed to carry it from the car, up a flight of stairs, and lift it onto the (sturdy) bench myself. I couldn't do that now. I lost 20kg, mostly muscle mass. :'(

That said, even though big CRT TVs look absolutely awesome for computer graphics, they don't have to be THAT big. I would say 19-20" is the sweet spot (for CRT). Impressive enough to put on a demo, small enough to have pinpoint picture control.

I would say also that for many uses, that size is good for use as a computer monitor also. Depends on the OS. If the real estate is used well (Win7 and before) you don't need more, but newer OSes fluff it up a lot with fonts and buttons the size of houses and vast areas of white in between.

For movies I would like a really big, hires OLED, but they're too expensive. With speakers and stuff, you can spend as much on a movie room as a 3 years old car... I'd take the car
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Old 17 March 2021, 02:54   #30
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I was a bit of a CRT freak, but had to tone it down when the kids started popping out of the wife.

At one point I had 4 x Sony PVM20L2s and a JVC 20" along with a Commodore badged Aydin Ranger 15" and a Mitsubishi 37" Megaview. Ive condensed it down to the last 2 above, although Ive forgot to mention theres a 32" Toshiba TV hidden upstairs and Ive recently picked up a 1084 (so thats 4!). Ive tried using modern monitors with Amigas/Ataris, but they just dont cut it.

I have kept an older NEC 1990FXp which syncs from 15khz> but unfortunately it wont do interlace, which is no good for loads of Amiga demos, or indeed any interlace productivity software, but it will do any non interlace resolution from OCS to RTG, so I dont want to get rid just yet.

I think the main problem (apart from the weight and depth) is, as someone mentioned above, theres not many people repairing them these days.
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Old 17 March 2021, 03:45   #31
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I was lucky enough to get 4 nos 14" HP 5500 monitors a couple years back. Felt I should being crt was dead. Good price too at £45 each. Found out last month when choosing my resolution on pi that they also have 50hz which I just figured wasn't a thing I thought

I'm happy enough with the blur you get on lcd just about because it does mostly do the job for the types of games I play but that perfect scroll is just wonderful to see on crt. Some 12 or so years ago I also bought a bunch of brand new different brand 14" crt TVs knowing they were winding down but the quality simply wasn't there with all having the same problem bleeding. Couldn't find a decent one anywhere back then
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Old 17 March 2021, 06:22   #32
saimon69
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No one does want them. I put all my CRTs on eBay at first (32" Sony Trinitron widescreen, two 19" Iiama Vison Master Pro's, 28" Bush 4:3) all in perfect working condition. No bids, not even at 99p. I offered them on Freecycle. No one interested. Eventually I took them to the council for recycling.
Had another CRT (JVC) that i sold in lieu of my sister in law for a guy that wanted to put it in an arcade cabinet, so i guess was lucky; i did place it on offerUp
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Old 17 March 2021, 09:59   #33
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Fashion is a part of it, but you can't really dismiss the importance of the depth or weight of them so easily.
I can, because billions of people managed to handle that without any problems for decades.

Of course, I'm saying that strictly in regard to retro hobby. Modern content looks better on modern solutions, no doubt. But it does raise a smile when some folks spend hundreds (thousands?) of pounds in pursuit of "authentic" machines, which then are connected to a TFT and look just awful, at least when it comes to gaming.

@Retro-nerd: 1440p is a bit better than 1080p but definitely not on a "night & day" level. And you can get 144hz 1080p monitors as well.

@alexh: type in "Trinitron" in UK's ebay, see what happens
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Old 17 March 2021, 10:18   #34
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I managed too, but I wouldn't manage now without making large sacrifices elsewhere. Not everyone's desk, either at home or in the office, is exactly the same as it was twenty years ago. Priorities change.
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Old 17 March 2021, 10:39   #35
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Yeah, my monster 37" megaview wont even fit through my doorframes!

I would also probably end up in hospital for a back transplant trying to lift it, even with another strong guy on the other end (I would estimate ~120Kg+! Its an old 1987 model, before the time where they got substantially lighter.)

And god help the poor table that has to support the thing. It originally sat on a heavy duty pneumatic stand. I dont imagine the cheap Ikea semi-MDF board mush that Im using now would even entertain half that weight.

Plus obviously, it would take up around one metre square in the room, so no, not in any way whatsoever practical and a modern computer 'desk' just wont do.

(I needed to get piano mover type service to get her to my current house).
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Old 17 March 2021, 10:39   #36
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Priorities, sure, home layouts and furniture sizes, not so much (if anything, being grown up, we have more space now and say in how to use it).

What I'm saying is that if people really wanted to, they would find space, in most cases easily. Therefore the "size matters" argument is largerly overplayed. It's more about convenience and the mythical bad rep CRTs got over the years (EDIT: which leads to absurd arguments such as the above suggetion to put a 37 incher on a desk
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Old 17 March 2021, 15:45   #37
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I can, because billions of people managed to handle that without any problems for decades.
I'm a "Retro Gamer" and even I feel the cons of CRTs outweigh the pros. Besides the obvious, they are less reliable, consume much more energy and give more eye strain.

Besides, i'm at a moment in my life where I prefer to play old stuff "filterless". Games with highly detailed pixel art, like SNK stuff look better completely naked. And If i'm going to use a shader, I prefer something light like easymode.
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Old 17 March 2021, 16:07   #38
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Games with highly detailed pixel art, like SNK stuff look better completely naked.
I couldn't disagree more, but this argument actually works, since there is no point discussing taste, so - fair enough.

But the rest is similar to the other non-arguments. Reliability? I wouldn't be surprised if their longevity was actually way bigger than that of modern screens, and the fact that CRTs are practically free. That besides the serious other issues, such as burn-in in OLEDs . Kilowatts? Yep, they consume a little bit more energy but that's not anybody would ever really consider as an important thing.

Overall, it's each to its own of course, I've stopped trying to promote CRTs many years ago - if people want to use the arguably worse displays, IQ/authenticity wise, then so be it. I just find most arguments used to rationalize that decision quite illogical.
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Old 17 March 2021, 18:19   #39
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I have thrown out a lot of CRTs and TVs over the years and now I deeply regret not keeping some. Doh!
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Old 17 March 2021, 19:12   #40
Retro-Nerd
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@Retro-nerd: 1440p is a bit better than 1080p but definitely not on a "night & day" level. And you can get 144hz 1080p monitors as well.


For me it is. A 27" monitor in 1080p is getting unsharp. 24-25" is probably the limit for 1080p displays, if you expect a razor sharp font face. And of course you have more Desktop space for windows/programmes in 1440p.

Last edited by Retro-Nerd; 17 March 2021 at 19:22.
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