Indivision 1200 AGA MK2cr scrolling question

[schneidas]

Hey guys, ok my Amiga is still running

Anyway, I'm sending the board to be recapped and meanwhile, I'm using another revision board with the Indi 1200 Aga Mk2cr.

What I have noticed is a bit of "laggy scrolling" or slight "flickering" when playing fast scrolling games like Goal! for example.
It's not as smooth as it was with my Commodore 1942 monitor.

It certainly not bad - and my eyes get used to it after a while - but is there anyway to fix this or improve this in any way?

Is this a problem of my IPS monitor (should I get a different lcd monitor with a faster panel (TN with 1ms for example)?
Are there any settings for the Indivision to enable a smooth, non-laggy, non-flickering scrolling?

Thanks again for all your help on my previous issues

[fitzsteve]

I think this will happen with all LCD (some worse than others maybe), you will only get smooth scrolling on CRT.

[Jope]

Originally Posted by fitzsteve

I think this will happen with all LCD (some worse than others maybe), you will only get smooth scrolling on CRT.

Not impossible. I have several TFTs that run a solid 50Hz and scroll smoothly when fed a suitable scandoubled output. (A3000, CV3D scandoubler, certain external scandoublers). Naturally there's the normal TFT ghosting there, but that's a bit more difficult to avoid.

[fitzsteve]

Originally Posted by Jope

Not impossible. I have several TFTs that run a solid 50Hz and scroll smoothly when fed a suitable scandoubled output. (A3000, CV3D scandoubler, certain external scandoublers). Naturally there's the normal TFT ghosting there, but that's a bit more difficult to avoid.

That's interesting, but maybe impossible for the Indi MkII (AFAIK there is no 50hz mode or am I wrong?) Sorry I've not tested the config tool so not 100% up to date on this issue.

[Jope]

It's very difficult to achieve on the Indi MK2. I never tried the 50Hz config someone here did, I'll try to dig it out some evening when I have a bit of time.

[schneidas]

Interesting. So I need a TFT that has 50Hz.
Yikes, are there any new ones that support this kind of refresh rate?

Also, where is the config tool of the Indi 1200? ANd how can I install it?

[ajk]

Most flat screens support 50Hz over HDMI, since all television broadcasts in Europe use that rate. However it might not be supported with VGA connections.

[schneidas]

Indivision uses a DVI connection. If I use a HDMI -> DVI adapter, it should be supported, no? (given that the monitor has that capability)

[Damion]

Originally Posted by Jope

Not impossible. I have several TFTs that run a solid 50Hz and scroll smoothly when fed a suitable scandoubled output. (A3000, CV3D scandoubler, certain external scandoublers). Naturally there's the normal TFT ghosting there, but that's a bit more difficult to avoid.

Exactly. The PIV scandoubler also works almost perfect, as long you dink with the config tool and find a suitably synced enough setting. Along those lines, you can do 75 and 100Hz modes that scroll reasonably well too, perhaps 75Hz might be doable with the Indy.

[demolition]

To get proper scrolling you would need a 50Hz capable monitor as mentioned and also make a 50Hz setting on the Indi. In theory you could do DVI->HDMI in 50Hz, but I have not been able to make a setting which will produce a picture on my TV. Has anyone been able to make a 1280x720@50Hz setting (which should work with all TVs)?

[schneidas]

great infos, thank you.

Anyone knows any 50Hz capable PC monitor that I can buy new?
I've checked countless manufacturers online and most start at 56Hz (according to the vertical frequency specs)

[Jope]

Viewsonic at least used to have some that go down to 50Hz, but some of them are still a bit jerky even though they do sync.

[demolition]

I have never seen a monitor (LCD) spec down to 50 Hz on the VGA port. This is out of spec, but it might work anyway. I think most monitors which has composite or s-video inputs can also accept 50 Hz on the VGA port, although this is just a theory.

My Dell 2408WFP accepts a 50 Hz input on the VGA port (as delivered by the Indivision ECS), but it is resampled to 60Hz as the panel is always running at this rate, so it is not possible to achieve proper 50 Hz motion on it. It looks more or less the same whether I give the monitor a 50 Hz or a 62.5Hz signal.

Many laptop displays support 50 Hz since they sometimes use this in power-saving modes. I know that is not very usable with real Amigas, but with an emulator it can look quite good with vsync enabled.

The safest way would be to get a small LCD TV with SCART input and use it as a monitor. It will then have a built-in scandoubler and can always do 50 Hz. You can get 19" TVs like that.

[schneidas]

Yes, but the scart has seriously degraderd picture quality when compared to the Indi.

I would need 50HZ on the DVI interface, not on the VGA

[ajk]

When talking about games (~320x256) there isn't much difference in the image quality between a scandoubler and using SCART. With high-resolution stuff the difference is clear of course.

If you see major shortcomings in the picture using SCART there is probably a compatibility issue with your particular TV, cable, or some other fault.

[schneidas]

Interesting... so, in theory, I would not need an Indi, if I have a high quality scart connection?

[ajk]

I would say so. Workbench usage is more comfortable if you have an Indivision, but if your main purpose is to play games, I'd say they Indy isn't very important.

Of course it depends on how picky you are with the image quality, but SCART carries the same signal as we had back in the day, and it displayed perfectly well even on good quality CRT monitors.

I've posted this image before, but this is an analog RGB capture of the video signal coming out of my A600. I'd say it's pretty clean:



These days the challenge is more about finding a suitable LCD TV that produces a good image from that signal. Or of course you can still use a CRT today if you have the space for it.

[Jope]

Originally Posted by demolition

I have never seen a monitor (LCD) spec down to 50 Hz on the VGA port. This is out of spec, but it might work anyway. I think most monitors which has composite or s-video inputs can also accept 50 Hz on the VGA port, although this is just a theory.

I have three Sony TFT monitors that are specced from 48Hz vertical upwards. And boy do they provide a beautifully smooth 31kHz/50Hz picture when fed though a frame-for-frame scandoubler, such as the Amber chip in my A3000. The models are: SDM-S53, SDM-S93, SDM-X95K

My LG 1721 monitor tv also shows a butter smooth 15kHz/50Hz via the VGA connector. (in the spec sheet in the manual)

Then I have some older Viewsonic 17" monitors that also show every 31kHz/50Hz frame. VP171 and VP730. (these also have 50Hz and up in the manual's spec table)

I have some Viewsonic 20.1" ones (VP201) that are specced to 31kHz/50Hz, but they introduce a jerk to the scroller every few seconds. Either some kind of upscanning is being done, or it doesn't quite fully lock on to the Amiga's sync and has to resync.

So you have never seen them, but they exist. You just need to read the specs before buying. The LG has an S-video connector, the others are either VGA only or VGA + DVI.

I can buy this monitor new, which is advertised to sync to 50Hz:
http://www.viewsoniceurope.com/asset...-led/26537.pdf

Based on my past viewsonic experiences, there is a good chance that it will provide a frame by frame 31kHz/50Hz display.

[schneidas]

Interesting... Thanks for the heads-up, Jope!
I guess I will have to contact Viewsonic to verify that the 50Hz input won't stutter

[Jope]

Your best guess would be to have an return agreement with the shop selling it, alternately carry your Amiga there to try it out. :-)