Hired Guns: Your memories (plus some fun fan-created stuff!) - Page 18

Cherno · 03 June 2019, 23:48

They do update in real-time at full framerate. So far, no performance hits at all. However, the monsters (and technically, a hired gun not under player control is a monster, albeit a friendly one) in Doom don't actually move like the player does with a constant velocity thrusting them. Instead, they teleport small distances each 1/35 of a second, which creates a jagged movement, and this becomes especially apparent when seeing their viewpoint. They also move in the 8 cardinal directions exclusively and snap instantly to their new direction. Of course, this could theoretically all be replaced by custom-code.

Cherno · 14 June 2019, 22:53

Does anyone know what the red two-digit number on the right side of the D.T.S. map screen indicates? I always thought it was the floor height the character is currently on, but it changes when moving around on the same floor... What is it?!?

Progress report: Inventory system completed. Currently working on the Digital Terrain Scanner.

lilalurl · 15 June 2019, 08:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherno

Does anyone know what the red two-digit number on the right side of the D.T.S. map screen indicates?

I believe it is the distance from the Exit. The formula seems a bit weird and based on a radius system:

- Each horizontal tile has a value of 2. In other words, the 8 tiles around the exit are located at 02 units of distance. The next tiles are at 04 etc...

- Each vertical level adds a value of 1. I have not tested directly but in theory being just above or under the exit should give you a value of 1. You can see the effect for instance in the abandoned depot map by riding the last of the three elevators near the exit. The value in the DTS screen changes in real-time so you can see the value changing each time you hear the elevator move.

Cherno · 15 June 2019, 11:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by lilalurl

I believe it is the distance from the Exit. The formula seems a bit weird and based on a radius system:

- Each horizontal tile has a value of 2. In other words, the 8 tiles around the exit are located at 02 units of distance. The next tiles are at 04 etc...

- Each vertical level adds a value of 1. I have not tested directly but in theory being just above or under the exit should give you a value of 1. You can see the effect for instance in the abandoned depot map by riding the last of the three elevators near the exit. The value in the DTS screen changes in real-time so you can see the value changing each time you hear the elevator move.

I suspected it would have to to with the distance to the exit, thanks for the clarification. Kinda weird and not that useful, I will just put the floor index there (which is equally useless but still better

)

lilalurl · 15 June 2019, 14:27

I guess the DTS is related to the RPG-esque origins of HG, being a sort of automap system.
And given that the aim of the game is usually to find the exit (but who did that before killing everything else in the level?

), a distance-o-meter would make sense (more or less).

The DTS in itself was interesting when exploring a level for the first time(s) but most of the time it was used that much.

If you have some power-ups planned (hopefully you can call them psi-amp) a neat temporary one would be the ability to see on the floor index nearby enemies (ie those around a corner for instance).

Cherno · 15 June 2019, 16:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by lilalurl

I guess the DTS is related to the RPG-esque origins of HG, being a sort of automap system.
And given that the aim of the game is usually to find the exit (but who did that before killing everything else in the level?

), a distance-o-meter would make sense (more or less).

The DTS in itself was interesting when exploring a level for the first time(s) but most of the time it was used that much.

If you have some power-ups planned (hopefully you can call them psi-amp) a neat temporary one would be the ability to see on the floor index nearby enemies (ie those around a corner for instance).

Yeah, the items will all be there of course, along with their functionality. That being said, some psi-amps see limited use. The two examples that come to mind are the farsight and teleport. I am thinking of improving their functionality. The farsight could work as you suggest, or maybe it reveals the map? The teleport I'm not sure about. Random teleportation seems really sueless.

lilalurl · 15 June 2019, 16:35

What about an effect like the Chaos Device from Heretic, which sends you back to the start of level/spawning point? A good place to be out of trouble usually (unless some "friends" put sentries there or attracted monsters there).

https://doom.fandom.com/wiki/Chaos_Device

Cherno · 18 June 2019, 01:45

lilalurl · 19 June 2019, 13:38

Cheule casually walks amid monsters...
Good job on doing this walk animation.

rsn8887 · 20 June 2019, 02:36

How did you all play this game in multiplayer?

Using multiple mice?

Or using mouse for one player and joystick for the other?

Did anyone here ever play this game with four players?

Did you use four joysticks or four mice or how did you do it?

Was this a co-op or deathmatch game? Or both?

I owned the original back in the day but only played it alone. It reminded me of Captive somehow. I never liked Captive because the 3d screen was small, the graphics not very good, and the levels hard and random. I also never liked Hired Guns very much because it reminded me of Captive, but maybe I just didn't understand it. It seemed very hard to play to me.

Predseda · 20 June 2019, 06:35

Two players mice,one joystick and one keyboard. And yes, there is also a set of deathmatch missions. We play it often in Amiga parties.

Cherno · 26 June 2019, 22:13

Broke another major milestone, which is mouse control for the user interface. So far, I had to rely on keyboard input for everything, from switching characters to item dropping and whatnot. Now I can just point the cursor at a button and press the mouse button, it makes things a lot easier. It was quite a hassle to get this to work since normally, a mouse cursor in GZDoom is possible in menus, and it's probably for that reason that mods that have such a system are almost nonexisting.

Cherno · 04 July 2019, 20:20

I haven't had time to work in this since the last update, this weeks has been brutal at work, and next one is only gonna be a little bit better. Still, I wanted to say that I recreated the message system from hired guns, including the random chatter. One thing I didn't like about the Amiga game was that all characters had the same lines, and when one of the two robots said some casual thing like "who brought the picnic hamper?" it just seemed weird since they are described as cold and to-the-point, machinelike, in the game's story. So, I wrote special lines for each occasion for the robot characters which they will use instead. For example, they won't cry in pain when hit or killed, but rather say something like "internal damage sensors indicate hull breach." or "auxiliary servo unit 2B damaged. Engaging nano-repair systems." and technobabble like that

zero · 10 July 2019, 13:03

I used to play this game a lot, mostly with friends. I preferred the keyboard, because although you couldn't side-step you could otherwise move a lot faster than with the mouse or keyboard.

Unfortunately if you had two players on keyboard it didn't work very well because the Amiga keyboard can only detect so many pressed keys at once!

The best starting weapon was the Super Covert, because it did decent damage and could fire faster than full auto rifles. Also a good idea to bring a robot for underwater parts.

The level design was incredible.

Cherno · 16 July 2019, 07:28

Latest progress report: You can switch ammo types with the press of a button, and the world map UI has been finished, the immediate to-do list looks as follows:
- cave system map
- item functionality, especially thrown grenades and deployable sentry guns. the rest is more or less trivial. Normal guns and the grenade launcher are already in.
- character selection screen

breech · 29 September 2021, 15:01

Here's a 3D map viewer by Mike Clarke!

Quote:

I have finished my Hired Guns Map Viewer. It lets you fly or walk around any of the maps from the game, and a few other test levels. It's very cool to have open while you're playing the game.
I've put much more time into it than I expected. Have a look. Have a play. Press the [?] button and read a little Psygnosis story. I hope you find it interesting or useful.

https://playcanv.as/b/HiocbhA0/?fbcl...gV7srqDM_2hLsY

From Commodore Amiga FB group.

Cherno · 29 September 2021, 17:37

Thanks, I saw this in the HG CD32 thread, nice little tool that might prove useful for future visits to Graveyard

Cherno · 23 September 2023, 16:10

What if Hired Guns wasn't a Dungeon Crawler, but an isometric tactics game like X-Com: Enemy Unknown?

Predseda · 23 September 2023, 16:29

This is your drawing? Very nice!

Cherno · 23 September 2023, 16:30

Spent about three days creating the graphics. I took some liberties with the tile sizes since in the original game a tile is obviously much wider but it would look weird from an isometric perspective.

14 June 2019, 22:53	#342
Cherno Registered User Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Dortmund, Germany Posts: 1,054	Does anyone know what the red two-digit number on the right side of the D.T.S. map screen indicates? I always thought it was the floor height the character is currently on, but it changes when moving around on the same floor... What is it?!? Progress report: Inventory system completed. Currently working on the Digital Terrain Scanner. Attached Thumbnails

18 June 2019, 01:45	#348
Cherno Registered User Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Dortmund, Germany Posts: 1,054	Attached Thumbnails

23 September 2023, 16:10	#358
Cherno Registered User Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Dortmund, Germany Posts: 1,054	What if Hired Guns wasn't a Dungeon Crawler, but an isometric tactics game like X-Com: Enemy Unknown? Attached Thumbnails Last edited by Cherno; 23 September 2023 at 22:03.

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03 June 2019, 23:48	#341
Cherno Registered User Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Dortmund, Germany Posts: 1,054	They do update in real-time at full framerate. So far, no performance hits at all. However, the monsters (and technically, a hired gun not under player control is a monster, albeit a friendly one) in Doom don't actually move like the player does with a constant velocity thrusting them. Instead, they teleport small distances each 1/35 of a second, which creates a jagged movement, and this becomes especially apparent when seeing their viewpoint. They also move in the 8 cardinal directions exclusively and snap instantly to their new direction. Of course, this could theoretically all be replaced by custom-code.

15 June 2019, 14:27	#345
lilalurl Global Moderator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: France Posts: 3,289	I guess the DTS is related to the RPG-esque origins of HG, being a sort of automap system. And given that the aim of the game is usually to find the exit (but who did that before killing everything else in the level? ), a distance-o-meter would make sense (more or less). The DTS in itself was interesting when exploring a level for the first time(s) but most of the time it was used that much. If you have some power-ups planned (hopefully you can call them psi-amp) a neat temporary one would be the ability to see on the floor index nearby enemies (ie those around a corner for instance).

15 June 2019, 16:35	#347
lilalurl Global Moderator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: France Posts: 3,289	What about an effect like the Chaos Device from Heretic, which sends you back to the start of level/spawning point? A good place to be out of trouble usually (unless some "friends" put sentries there or attracted monsters there). https://doom.fandom.com/wiki/Chaos_Device

19 June 2019, 13:38	#349
lilalurl Global Moderator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: France Posts: 3,289	Cheule casually walks amid monsters... Good job on doing this walk animation.

20 June 2019, 02:36	#350
rsn8887 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: USA Posts: 1,058	How did you all play this game in multiplayer? Using multiple mice? Or using mouse for one player and joystick for the other? Did anyone here ever play this game with four players? Did you use four joysticks or four mice or how did you do it? Was this a co-op or deathmatch game? Or both? I owned the original back in the day but only played it alone. It reminded me of Captive somehow. I never liked Captive because the 3d screen was small, the graphics not very good, and the levels hard and random. I also never liked Hired Guns very much because it reminded me of Captive, but maybe I just didn't understand it. It seemed very hard to play to me.

20 June 2019, 06:35	#351
Predseda Puttymoon inhabitant Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Tromaville Age: 46 Posts: 7,539	Two players mice,one joystick and one keyboard. And yes, there is also a set of deathmatch missions. We play it often in Amiga parties.

26 June 2019, 22:13	#352
Cherno Registered User Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Dortmund, Germany Posts: 1,054	Broke another major milestone, which is mouse control for the user interface. So far, I had to rely on keyboard input for everything, from switching characters to item dropping and whatnot. Now I can just point the cursor at a button and press the mouse button, it makes things a lot easier. It was quite a hassle to get this to work since normally, a mouse cursor in GZDoom is possible in menus, and it's probably for that reason that mods that have such a system are almost nonexisting.

04 July 2019, 20:20	#353
Cherno Registered User Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Dortmund, Germany Posts: 1,054	I haven't had time to work in this since the last update, this weeks has been brutal at work, and next one is only gonna be a little bit better. Still, I wanted to say that I recreated the message system from hired guns, including the random chatter. One thing I didn't like about the Amiga game was that all characters had the same lines, and when one of the two robots said some casual thing like "who brought the picnic hamper?" it just seemed weird since they are described as cold and to-the-point, machinelike, in the game's story. So, I wrote special lines for each occasion for the robot characters which they will use instead. For example, they won't cry in pain when hit or killed, but rather say something like "internal damage sensors indicate hull breach." or "auxiliary servo unit 2B damaged. Engaging nano-repair systems." and technobabble like that

10 July 2019, 13:03	#354
zero Registered User Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: UK Posts: 428	I used to play this game a lot, mostly with friends. I preferred the keyboard, because although you couldn't side-step you could otherwise move a lot faster than with the mouse or keyboard. Unfortunately if you had two players on keyboard it didn't work very well because the Amiga keyboard can only detect so many pressed keys at once! The best starting weapon was the Super Covert, because it did decent damage and could fire faster than full auto rifles. Also a good idea to bring a robot for underwater parts. The level design was incredible.

16 July 2019, 07:28	#355
Cherno Registered User Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Dortmund, Germany Posts: 1,054	Latest progress report: You can switch ammo types with the press of a button, and the world map UI has been finished, the immediate to-do list looks as follows: - cave system map - item functionality, especially thrown grenades and deployable sentry guns. the rest is more or less trivial. Normal guns and the grenade launcher are already in. - character selection screen

29 September 2021, 17:37	#357
Cherno Registered User Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Dortmund, Germany Posts: 1,054	Thanks, I saw this in the HG CD32 thread, nice little tool that might prove useful for future visits to Graveyard

23 September 2023, 16:29	#359
Predseda Puttymoon inhabitant Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Tromaville Age: 46 Posts: 7,539	This is your drawing? Very nice!

23 September 2023, 16:30	#360
Cherno Registered User Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Dortmund, Germany Posts: 1,054	Spent about three days creating the graphics. I took some liberties with the tile sizes since in the original game a tile is obviously much wider but it would look weird from an isometric perspective.

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