Lollypop crashing

lifeschool · 18 October 2022, 18:13

Hi guys.

We are currently playing Lollypop in the SuperLeague competition right now, and somehow the WHDload game keeps crashing randomly. Always it is because of a loading bug.

For example, it might crash when the player dies and it is loading the title again. Sometimes crashes when loading the level 2 boss. Or using the tree stump exit from level 3; and here it came up with an error (attached).

There is a note on HOL about the original game containing bugs, and it seems the WHD version is having some issues.

So far I have tested it with ECS 030 (preload and nocaches option), and 7Mhz A1200, and it still crashes. I tried with A600 + 8MB Z2 ram and it seems more stable, or at least, everything seems to work using the level skip mode.

So I am wondering if this game Needs 000, and as such, should be degraded to WB1.3 mode (the one where it boots 1.3 before loading). But then the game requires ECS, so this might not work?

Any help appreciated.

kremiso · 21 October 2022, 13:27

for what it's worth, i have made a couple of tests, with different configurations, WinUAE and floppy installed version (updated)

i'm not good with this game, i have just tried to start from the begin each time

to start from HD, the game requires at least 1.5MB, no matter if chip, fast or slow

using an A500+ ks2.x (whatever type of RAM), the game always crashed when on level 2 (randomly), after having completed the first one without issues;

using an A500+ and ks1.x (again whatever type of RAM), same behaviour, always crashed on level 2

in both cases, i have also tried to change from music and sfx, and with and without autofire; no differences btw

using the level 2 password, the level works fine with both settings instead

---
using an A1200 standard config, ks3.1, i have instead reached the level 3 without any issues, starting from the begin

this seems the better setting here, so far

lifeschool · 21 October 2022, 18:55

Thanks for your help!

I tried A600 setup without preload, and even using the passwords to skip levels. When I skipped to the level 2 boss, the character didn't appear on screen, and I had to use a password to skip levels. It still crashed randomly on level 4. I wasn't doing anything special, so it seems the bugs arn't totally based on the loading of new areas.

I tried taking a (preload) savestate of the game from just before the level 2 boss, but it always crashes in the same place on level 3, no matter what I do. But if I savestate the game from the title screen, and if it doesn't crash on level 2 or 3, it will always get through those levels without a problem, but it will crash the game later at some point, depending on the savestate. So it occurred to me that if someone can savestate the game on the title screen, and then they made it to level 5 without it crashing, then the savestate would always play up to this point without crashing. Somehow the bugs are different with each load, and after it loads the bugs are then fixed into place.

Possibilities:
Caches
Kickstart Version 2, 3, 3.1
000 CPU
Fast Memory
Pressing ESC causes it?
Certain scores trigger it
Kick 1.3?
Memory leaks?
Divide by Zero?
Buffer overrun?

dlfrsilver · 22 October 2022, 07:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by lifeschool

Thanks for your help!

I tried A600 setup without preload, and even using the passwords to skip levels. When I skipped to the level 2 boss, the character didn't appear on screen, and I had to use a password to skip levels. It still crashed randomly on level 4. I wasn't doing anything special, so it seems the bugs arn't totally based on the loading of new areas.

I tried taking a (preload) savestate of the game from just before the level 2 boss, but it always crashes in the same place on level 3, no matter what I do. But if I savestate the game from the title screen, and if it doesn't crash on level 2 or 3, it will always get through those levels without a problem, but it will crash the game later at some point, depending on the savestate. So it occurred to me that if someone can savestate the game on the title screen, and then they made it to level 5 without it crashing, then the savestate would always play up to this point without crashing. Somehow the bugs are different with each load, and after it loads the bugs are then fixed into place.

Possibilities:
Caches
Kickstart Version 2, 3, 3.1
000 CPU
Fast Memory
Pressing ESC causes it?
Certain scores trigger it
Kick 1.3?
Memory leaks?
Divide by Zero?
Buffer overrun?

You need if possible to install the game with the updated disk 1 from Rainbow Arts present in the tosec.

kremiso · 22 October 2022, 09:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by lifeschool

...I tried taking a (preload) savestate of the game from just before the level 2 boss, but it always crashes in the same place on level 3, no matter what I do...

i had a similad behaviour with a level 2 starting savestate, the game always crashed after a couple of seconds into, everytime i reloaded the state;
but, rebooting the system before, the state worked fine instead

this could mean that something stays resident in memory

here, the bugs are mostly triggerred when at least two levels have been played, consecutively

---
i think you can delete the ks1.3 option from your list, i presume not a kickstart issue here

this old thread contain some infos about the bugs, and how some of them have been fixed :

Lollypop issues

dlfrsilver · 22 October 2022, 14:53

This disk :

Lollypop (1995-02-01)(Rainbow Arts)(Disk 1 of 5)[h Motion][updated disk]" from TOSEC.

One file is corrupted on Original Disk 1. Use this update disk as patch.

File 6E will then be good.

lifeschool · 22 October 2022, 16:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by kremiso

here, the bugs are mostly triggered when at least two levels have been played, consecutively

This is interesting. If I level skip to level 3, and play the game as normal, it will crash at some point on level 4.

If it a cumulative bug, it might be because of some data is not being overwritten in memory correctly, so sometimes it works, sometimes not. Players in the compo report being able to play as far as level 5 on a good run, but crashes early on others.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlfrsilver

This disk :

Lollypop (1995-02-01)(Rainbow Arts)(Disk 1 of 5)[h Motion][updated disk]" from TOSEC.

One file is corrupted on Original Disk 1. Use this update disk as patch.

File 6E will then be good.

I already read the old thread. I used an installer to extract 6E from the Updated Disk, but the file size was identical to the WHDload, so I presumed it was identical. I'll try it again with that file in place, and see if it helps.

kremiso · 22 October 2022, 19:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlfrsilver

This disk :

Lollypop (1995-02-01)(Rainbow Arts)(Disk 1 of 5)[h Motion][updated disk]" from TOSEC.

One file is corrupted on Original Disk 1. Use this update disk as patch.

File 6E will then be good.

i have used that disk to make the install here, but the randomly crash happens the same

but reading this post, lead me to complete different try :

https://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p...9&postcount=19

the original ipf's set works with an AGA setting, differently than using an ECS set, it seems

so, i have tried again with an A1200 4MB Fast configuration, and 4 drives enabled with the first 4 ipf disks mounted

now, i have never encountered a crash anymore, so far

and i have reached the fifth level, starting from the first one;
not a crash, i just lost the last life there

@lifeschool , can you try this configuration on your side?
just to complete the report, i was playing with sfx instead of music, and autofire

lifeschool · 23 October 2022, 16:17

Ok, thanks for the update. Will try those out.

The report on HOL says the IPFs contain the same bugs as the cracks, so this could mean the WHDLoad reads track 40 and is what is causing the issue? Or it could mean the trackdisk loader is slow enough not to fall over.
Or you just got lucky and played the whole game fine first time.

I presume you used the (Europe) IPFs from Archive.org?

What happens if you install the IPFs using the WHD Installer?

Unfortunately, we can't link IPFs to the compo, only ADFs, HDF, or WHD installs or savestates.

lifeschool · 23 October 2022, 16:49

Just tried IPFs with your configuration. Skipped level 1 and 2, and just played level 3. Near the end it corrupted the memory and gave an error.

This was played with Music and not SFX. It could be possible these bugs are music DMA related, while SFX are fine??

lifeschool · 23 October 2022, 18:15

Tried again on AGA but with sound effects. Seemed to make no difference, it still crashed after maybe 10mins.

Marce · 23 October 2022, 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by lifeschool

Tried again on AGA but with sound effects. Seemed to make no difference, it still crashed after maybe 10mins.

Lollypop is hardisk installable, so if the whdload install is very lame and crash then install the game in the classical way and I guarantee you will work fine will not crash
or better yet play the PC version which is far better than the Amiga version

kremiso · 23 October 2022, 18:26

that's really interesting and strange at the same time

here, still no crashes yet, also reloading and playing some different levels savestates

still trying to complete level 5, damned hard for my skills

i'm using this Tosec set :

Lollypop ipf ftp

other info that maybe can made some differences on your side, Kickstart3.0 and 100% compatible drives was my starting setting

kremiso · 23 October 2022, 18:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by lifeschool

...Skipped level 1 and 2, and just played level 3. Near the end it corrupted the memory and gave an error.

are you using savestates to skip? or password? or a different method?

a borked state perhaps?
or some difference in the WinUAE config?

EDIT
@lifeschool
i have reached level 6 for the first time, dying there

and i have also tried to start a new game with an A500+ (+4MB Fast),ks2.x and same 4 drives
this time with music
no crashes also, reached level 4 boss (ghost), that killed me

i don't know if the ipf version is completable, but i can say it doesn't have those crappy randomly hangs here, played via disks;
i'll try to install it, to check if something will change

lifeschool · 23 October 2022, 23:16

Thanks guys, I feel we are getting closer!

Marce - When I put the IPFs I have into WinUAE it said they are non-dos disks. I presume the HDD install is on disk 5?

kremiso - Im using the password, Brainb and also Mama, then Emonst or Tab to skip levels. The IPFs you linked are from 2008, while the ones on Archive.org are from 1997, so maybe someone made a better job of copying the disks?

It dosn't help with the compo. One pre-loaded savestate would work, or a working WHDLoad version is what is needed.

lifeschool · 24 October 2022, 00:09

Ok, just tried the new IPFs and the game worked flawlessly.

I installed the game to WHDLoad using those same images but it still crashes.

Torti-the-Smurf · 24 October 2022, 00:40

I only had a little bit of time for testing, but here is what i found.

The WHDLoad Error message that Lifeschool Posted in his first post can be 100% recreated.

(i will report on Mantis, how

)

In shortform; The Current LollyPop Slave has some ...aehmm "issues" (no offence DJ Mike & Codetapper)

The first thing i noticed right after the Install was that the WHDLoad Lollypop folder is unusally BIG.
So i took a look into the Data Folder for Lollypop WHD.

Not only are the extracted Files from the Disk Images in there, but also the Hole Disk Images themself

Those Images Files should not be in there and can be deleted right away (Disk.1 to Disk.5)

Hmmm, ... said i would make it short sooo...
I would suggest to use the regular Install that comes on Disk5 for Lollypop.

(use the upgraded Disk1 with the non corrupt 6E file)

this one for example:
Lollypop (1995-02-01)(Rainbow Arts)(Disk 1 of 5)[h Motion][updated disk]

or play from "Floppy"

I would no recommend the WHDLoad for now.

Greetings and all the best for the SuperLeague competition

kremiso · 24 October 2022, 15:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by lifeschool

Ok, just tried the new IPFs and the game worked flawlessly.

I installed the game to WHDLoad using those same images but it still crashes.

glad you finally reach using disks

here, i have tried :
the installed version, created using the last 4 ipf disks, plus the updated disk as disk 1 (Lollypop (1995-02-01)(Rainbow Arts)(Disk 1 of 5)[h Motion][updated disk])
and not surprisingly, the randomly crash appeared again (level 2 boss)

i need to test the original install, but i presume should work using an AGA setting, and should crash when loading level 6, using an ECS config

maybe the updated disk1 is helpful only to ECS users, to reach to complete the game, but just playing using disks

----
btw, ipf's and an AGA setting seems the better way to play this atm

CFou! · 26 October 2022, 19:34

hi guys,

can you test new RawDIC imager?

update done:
+ remove unnecessary files disk1 to disk.5
+ fix 3 corrupted files (0F,58 & 6e)

58 & 6e are important because it's can not be unpacked an crash game

Retroplay · 26 October 2022, 19:48

I have zoned the reinstalled game using your new RawDIC imager.

Just in case someone needs it for testing and can't install it themselves.

18 October 2022, 18:13	#1
lifeschool Local Moderator Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Lancashire, UK Age: 48 Posts: 1,591	Lollypop crashing Hi guys. We are currently playing Lollypop in the SuperLeague competition right now, and somehow the WHDload game keeps crashing randomly. Always it is because of a loading bug. For example, it might crash when the player dies and it is loading the title again. Sometimes crashes when loading the level 2 boss. Or using the tree stump exit from level 3; and here it came up with an error (attached). There is a note on HOL about the original game containing bugs, and it seems the WHD version is having some issues. So far I have tested it with ECS 030 (preload and nocaches option), and 7Mhz A1200, and it still crashes. I tried with A600 + 8MB Z2 ram and it seems more stable, or at least, everything seems to work using the level skip mode. So I am wondering if this game Needs 000, and as such, should be degraded to WB1.3 mode (the one where it boots 1.3 before loading). But then the game requires ECS, so this might not work? Any help appreciated. Attached Thumbnails Last edited by lifeschool; 18 October 2022 at 18:19.

23 October 2022, 16:49	#10
lifeschool Local Moderator Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Lancashire, UK Age: 48 Posts: 1,591	Just tried IPFs with your configuration. Skipped level 1 and 2, and just played level 3. Near the end it corrupted the memory and gave an error. This was played with Music and not SFX. It could be possible these bugs are music DMA related, while SFX are fine?? Attached Thumbnails

23 October 2022, 18:15	#11
lifeschool Local Moderator Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Lancashire, UK Age: 48 Posts: 1,591	Tried again on AGA but with sound effects. Seemed to make no difference, it still crashed after maybe 10mins. Attached Thumbnails

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21 October 2022, 13:27	#2
kremiso Registered User Join Date: Dec 2020 Location: Italy Posts: 1,898	for what it's worth, i have made a couple of tests, with different configurations, WinUAE and floppy installed version (updated) i'm not good with this game, i have just tried to start from the begin each time to start from HD, the game requires at least 1.5MB, no matter if chip, fast or slow using an A500+ ks2.x (whatever type of RAM), the game always crashed when on level 2 (randomly), after having completed the first one without issues; using an A500+ and ks1.x (again whatever type of RAM), same behaviour, always crashed on level 2 in both cases, i have also tried to change from music and sfx, and with and without autofire; no differences btw using the level 2 password, the level works fine with both settings instead --- using an A1200 standard config, ks3.1, i have instead reached the level 3 without any issues, starting from the begin this seems the better setting here, so far

21 October 2022, 18:55	#3
lifeschool Local Moderator Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Lancashire, UK Age: 48 Posts: 1,591	Thanks for your help! I tried A600 setup without preload, and even using the passwords to skip levels. When I skipped to the level 2 boss, the character didn't appear on screen, and I had to use a password to skip levels. It still crashed randomly on level 4. I wasn't doing anything special, so it seems the bugs arn't totally based on the loading of new areas. I tried taking a (preload) savestate of the game from just before the level 2 boss, but it always crashes in the same place on level 3, no matter what I do. But if I savestate the game from the title screen, and if it doesn't crash on level 2 or 3, it will always get through those levels without a problem, but it will crash the game later at some point, depending on the savestate. So it occurred to me that if someone can savestate the game on the title screen, and then they made it to level 5 without it crashing, then the savestate would always play up to this point without crashing. Somehow the bugs are different with each load, and after it loads the bugs are then fixed into place. Possibilities: Caches Kickstart Version 2, 3, 3.1 000 CPU Fast Memory Pressing ESC causes it? Certain scores trigger it Kick 1.3? Memory leaks? Divide by Zero? Buffer overrun?

22 October 2022, 14:53	#6
dlfrsilver CaptainM68K-SPS France Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Melun nearby Paris/France Age: 46 Posts: 10,412	This disk : Lollypop (1995-02-01)(Rainbow Arts)(Disk 1 of 5)[h Motion][updated disk]" from TOSEC. One file is corrupted on Original Disk 1. Use this update disk as patch. File 6E will then be good.

23 October 2022, 16:17	#9
lifeschool Local Moderator Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Lancashire, UK Age: 48 Posts: 1,591	Ok, thanks for the update. Will try those out. The report on HOL says the IPFs contain the same bugs as the cracks, so this could mean the WHDLoad reads track 40 and is what is causing the issue? Or it could mean the trackdisk loader is slow enough not to fall over. Or you just got lucky and played the whole game fine first time. I presume you used the (Europe) IPFs from Archive.org? What happens if you install the IPFs using the WHD Installer? Unfortunately, we can't link IPFs to the compo, only ADFs, HDF, or WHD installs or savestates.

23 October 2022, 18:26	#13
kremiso Registered User Join Date: Dec 2020 Location: Italy Posts: 1,898	that's really interesting and strange at the same time here, still no crashes yet, also reloading and playing some different levels savestates still trying to complete level 5, damned hard for my skills i'm using this Tosec set : Lollypop ipf ftp other info that maybe can made some differences on your side, Kickstart3.0 and 100% compatible drives was my starting setting

23 October 2022, 23:16	#15
lifeschool Local Moderator Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Lancashire, UK Age: 48 Posts: 1,591	Thanks guys, I feel we are getting closer! Marce - When I put the IPFs I have into WinUAE it said they are non-dos disks. I presume the HDD install is on disk 5? kremiso - Im using the password, Brainb and also Mama, then Emonst or Tab to skip levels. The IPFs you linked are from 2008, while the ones on Archive.org are from 1997, so maybe someone made a better job of copying the disks? It dosn't help with the compo. One pre-loaded savestate would work, or a working WHDLoad version is what is needed.

24 October 2022, 00:09	#16
lifeschool Local Moderator Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Lancashire, UK Age: 48 Posts: 1,591	Ok, just tried the new IPFs and the game worked flawlessly. I installed the game to WHDLoad using those same images but it still crashes.

24 October 2022, 00:40	#17
Torti-the-Smurf Registered User Join Date: Dec 2018 Location: Earth Posts: 1,058	I only had a little bit of time for testing, but here is what i found. The WHDLoad Error message that Lifeschool Posted in his first post can be 100% recreated. (i will report on Mantis, how ) In shortform; The Current LollyPop Slave has some ...aehmm "issues" (no offence DJ Mike & Codetapper) The first thing i noticed right after the Install was that the WHDLoad Lollypop folder is unusally BIG. So i took a look into the Data Folder for Lollypop WHD. Not only are the extracted Files from the Disk Images in there, but also the Hole Disk Images themself Those Images Files should not be in there and can be deleted right away (Disk.1 to Disk.5) Hmmm, ... said i would make it short sooo... I would suggest to use the regular Install that comes on Disk5 for Lollypop. (use the upgraded Disk1 with the non corrupt 6E file) this one for example: Lollypop (1995-02-01)(Rainbow Arts)(Disk 1 of 5)[h Motion][updated disk] or play from "Floppy" I would no recommend the WHDLoad for now. Greetings and all the best for the SuperLeague competition

26 October 2022, 19:48	#20
Retroplay Lemon Curry ? Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Denmark Age: 49 Posts: 4,079	I have zoned the reinstalled game using your new RawDIC imager. Just in case someone needs it for testing and can't install it themselves.

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