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Old 14 January 2022, 00:15   #1561
Amiga-Digital
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLD-SNaKe View Post
By the way... Testing the new ROM 3.2.1 and update under Amithlon
wow nice , where can i find the smallird.gz with the ks3.2 i like to try if it works with the biostar m7vig board
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Old 15 January 2022, 17:47   #1562
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I got interested by @jdog320 trying to run amithlon within qemu and by the fact that i don't have an amithlon computer and that the latest version of virtualbox just doesn't support it. Multiple reasons to try it with qemu. Looks like there is a problem with ide and i tried with both kern310 and kernel4 but CD doesn't work. Ide controller is piix3 and it is supported by the kernel (otherwise cd won't show up at all). Some problem for sure.

I am bit rusty with setting things up so thanks to @SnkBitten for helping me to set the build environment. I managed to get it working and to start amithlon with CD and both bigird and smallird inside qemu. I was using scsi driver from the kernel. Amithlon is running just fine, both hd and cd attached to the same scsi. I am doing some tests with vmware video card, second attempt, because the first one ended badly :-) It boots fine. There is no accel, just to see to get it initialized first. I will try then to get it accelerated. If anyone is interested I can write how to get it running under qemu (my version is 6.2.0).

All the best and Happy New Year to everybody!
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Old 15 January 2022, 19:55   #1563
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Hi Milanca and welcome back. Please do share a write up. I'm a keen KVM/Qemu user and would love doing GPU passthrough to Amithlon VM
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Old 15 January 2022, 23:40   #1564
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You can use Virutalbox for Amithlon with all features working (USB, Network, AHI) except for hardware accelerated graphics. You just have to use an older version. "VirtualBox-6.0.24-139119-Win" works perfectly.

https://download.virtualbox.org/virtualbox/6.0.24/

Just configure it as a DOS based system, 16MB video card, 1 GB ram and IDE drives. Audio setup as ICH AC97 and network depends on the kernel you plan to run.
Kernel4 set your adapter type as Intel PRO/1000 MT Desktop and Kernel 3.10 set your adapter type as PCnet-FAST III. I attach it as a bridged adapter on my host computes NIC so I can access my internal stuff (wireless printers, NAS storage, etc..).
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Old 16 January 2022, 22:47   #1565
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Thanks @SnkBitten. Yes i read in your previous post that it works fine using that version. Unfortunately I can not use it (at least currently) which will require me to downgrade currently installed VBox. As I am a developer by trade I have some projects (some of their parts) which are under vagrant (and virtual box) and segments are on CentOS. I am afraid not to break it. Not sure if it will all go smoothly so I am not keen to risk. That's why I wanted to try it with Qemu.

It is actually not going well with Qemu. I am not able to get any mode other than builtin 640x480, even in vesa, and i tried with all available video devices in qemu which are supported by kernel. Vesa mode is working but only in 640x480. Ati rage 128p was promising but its support looks minimal. I spent a weekend messing up with it, it was fun though, but I'd suggest staying away from amithlon in qemu (which is great by the way). Looks like that amithlon doesn't like virtual video devices at all. Could be that i missed installing something, all amithlon updates are installed. Anyways, if anyone wants to try running amithlon in qemu here is the way I am running it:

Code:
qemu-system-x86_64 -machine type=pc,accel=kvm \
-m 768M -vga vmware \
-device dc390,id=scsi0 \
-device scsi-hd,drive=drive0,bus=scsi0.0,channel=0,scsi-id=0 \
-drive file=path-to-hdd-image.vdi,format=vdi,if=none,id=drive0 \
-device scsi-cd,drive=drive1,bus=scsi0.0,channel=0,scsi-id=1 \
-drive file=path-to-cd-image.iso,if=none,id=drive1
Here I am using image from virtualbox(which is supported) so the format is vdi. So make sure to use appropriate format, raw,qcow,etc.

The way drives are added to scsi
Code:
-device dc390,id=scsi0 <-- here we set scsi device id=scsi0
-device scsi-hd,drive=drive0,bus=scsi0.0,channel=0,scsi-id=0 <-- here we set scsi hd drive=drive0
-drive file=path-to-hdd-image.vdi,format=vdi,if=none,id=drive0 <-- attach image to drive0
Kernel to use for qemu is attached.

Best
Attached Files
File Type: zip kernel41a.zip (752.0 KB, 14 views)

Last edited by milanca; 16 January 2022 at 22:48. Reason: forgot to attach
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Old 21 January 2022, 00:42   #1566
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I said I shouldn't be messing up with qemu-amithlon, at least not for now, and I am not. I am just bringing up an idea that could, theoretically speaking (but we have so many examples that it is not just backed up by theory) open new way of running Amithlon. Qemu is just great and I am impressed with all its features. Exploring it recently, I came across a feature and had an idea to use it for Amithlon. Its been out for quite some time and I see new opportunity for amithlon users with it, IOMMU, PCI passthrough, and its implemented in Qemu, VBox, etc. Our only problem for all this time was the graphics, generally speaking. Amithlon requires real hardware, video card, real registers for hw acceleration. Any other component we can easily emulate, sound, controllers, and so on, all but the graphics. This way we can build and run (hopefully, as it is still an idea to be worked out) on any modern hardware having fast cpu. All we need to have is another, pci video card, that is nicely supported in Amithlon. What do you guys think about this?

For those who don't know what pci passthrough is, it is a feature which allows a pci device on a bus to be passed to a guest OS with all its features and possibilities. Guest system has full control of a device like it was present in it. Think of it like this, FX5500 PCI passed to Amithlon and 'it is' fully in control of amithlon. There are small adapters pci-x 2 pci, with one or more pci slots. The steps to achieve this are not that hard and there are lots of howtos. In simple words a device we wish to pass through is found by the host kernel but not initialized (the system doesn't take control over it, loads driver ..) instead it is assigned to another layer. From that layer and using Qemu for example we pass it to our guest os which has exclusive access to it. That is why we need to configure device, load iommu module, prevent guest os from taking over the device, and finally pass it to guest os. Sounds interesting ??

Best regards!
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Old 21 January 2022, 14:41   #1567
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That is a genius idea! I have always wondered for a feature like that but for the CPU instead. For example, running UAE on a PPC Mac (G5 for speed) and use a pass-through to the CPU from guest to host to let Amiga OS 4 run on it. So, running OS 4 at least for CPU is is a native execution while the rest is emulated (sound, etc.)
I think qemu has great potential and if this IOMMU feature works, it is going to be a great refresher for Amithlon.
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Old 21 January 2022, 15:45   #1568
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PCI passthrough wont work.
The gpu needs hardware to support it and nothing Amithon supports is recent enough to support iommu.
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Old 21 January 2022, 16:05   #1569
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Really? PCI passthrough will pass through any PCI or pcie GPU. Fx5200 will work. I would not be surprised if PCIE versions also since all PCIE cards appear as PCI cards
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Old 21 January 2022, 16:26   #1570
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I personally think that this new approach of running amithlon has indeed a great potential. If it all turns out well it can be another great way of running it besides the classical way. User can run it on a modern, the latest hardware, in the same manner we use uae today. No need for a dedicated desktop just for amithlon. One can connect passed video card to a second monitor and have it displayed there, it is running really nice, beautiful thing. Items ordered from aliexpress usually travel around 30 days to my place. I think I have an old matrox pci card which can be used for a pilot project until I get fx5500 pci. Also pci-e->pci bridge adapter I'll need to buy so I can give it a try.
I've seen a post where ati rage 128 is passed to G4 PPC within Qemu and it is running great, so why wouldn't be applied to amithlon in the same way. Not sure, I think it was Tiger 10.4, but the point is the video card is running natively. I don't have much free time but when I get pci bridge adapter I will give it a go one weekend.

@Methanoid, yes of course, why not:-) You can't pass through your primary video card but you could try with pci-e fx5200 if its in another pci-x slot. After enabling iommu module there is a small script which finds devices and iommu groups telling you which devices and groups can be passed through.
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Old 21 January 2022, 16:29   #1571
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@Korban, why do you think so? We need to pass through a device which amithlon supports. If 5200 can be passed, it is supported, i see no reason why it shouldn't work. From what I've seen, ati rage 128 pro can be passed definitely and it can also work under amithlon.
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Old 22 January 2022, 03:12   #1572
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milanca View Post
@Korban, why do you think so? We need to pass through a device which amithlon supports. If 5200 can be passed, it is supported, i see no reason why it shouldn't work. From what I've seen, ati rage 128 pro can be passed definitely and it can also work under amithlon.

Milanca. The issue with hardware pass through (Intel: VTX-D) is that it's only supported on some motherboard chipset's and of course the cpu needs to have that support. Passing though the hardware isn't the issue. The issue you will face is that most modern boards that will have VTX-D support won't have pci slots, and only pci-e.


I've only come across a few consumer grade boards that have that support, with most being server/enterprise boards....


The idea might work, if you can find the right hardware.


Stephen
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Old 22 January 2022, 12:19   #1573
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Milanca. The issue with hardware pass through (Intel: VTX-D) is that it's only supported on some motherboard chipset's and of course the cpu needs to have that support. Passing though the hardware isn't the issue. The issue you will face is that most modern boards that will have VTX-D support won't have pci slots, and only pci-e.
Hi Stephen. Yes of course, i understand all of these. Despite that I never actually used pci-passthrough i understand how it works and its hardware requirements. When you said that cpu needs to support it, of course, it is absolutely necessary but most of the cpus support it nowadays. VT-x/AMD-v as a virtualization technology refers to this particular cpu support. Without it even Qemu or VirtualBox will not work.

When it comes to VT-d, it stands for IOMMU (pci-passthrough), that's different thing. I am a bit disappointed by what you said that amoung many board you've found only few that actually support it. I have never tried it or had chance to test different boards. 'd' probably stands for direct as it enables directed I/O. My actual desktop motherboard is gigabyte's Z490M gaming x, z490 chipset, and in my bios it says:

Code:
VT-d
Enables or disables Intel® Virtualization Technology for Directed I/O. (Default: Enabled)
Directly referring to IOMMU meaning it is supported (not tested though)

Quote:
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The issue you will face is that most modern boards that will have VTX-D support won't have pci slots, and only pci-e.
Of course. That's why PCI-X to PCI bridge card is required to be able to use PCI card, in case when pci card is to be passed.

Its not much needed to be able to try it, just this bridge adapter card, and we'll know if its working or not.
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Old Yesterday, 12:47   #1574
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Hi milanca,

Quote:
Originally Posted by milanca View Post
...but most of the cpus support it nowadays. VT-x/AMD-v as a virtualization technology refers to this particular cpu support. Without it even Qemu or VirtualBox will not work.
Most recent CPU's now support VT-X. I have a Q9400, I5-2500, and a Xeon CPU E31240 they all support VT-X, and VT-D. I've not used AMD in 20+ odd years, so don''t know those.

Q9400:

https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us...3-mhz-fsb.html

I5:
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us...fications.html

The I5 is in a Gigabyte H61M-S2PV rev 2.2 board, but I've not tried the VT-D even thought is is enabled in the bios.

Quote:
Originally Posted by milanca View Post
When it comes to VT-d, it stands for IOMMU (pci-passthrough), that's different thing. I am a bit disappointed by what you said that amoung many board you've found only few that actually support it. I have never tried it or had chance to test different boards. 'd' probably stands for direct as it enables directed I/O. My actual desktop motherboard is gigabyte's Z490M gaming x, z490 chipset, and in my bios it says:

Code:
VT-d
Enables or disables Intel® Virtualization Technology for Directed I/O. (Default: Enabled)
Directly referring to IOMMU meaning it is supported (not tested though)
Your lucky then, but the difference would be you've got a "Gaming" board with the right chipset. I haven't done any research of late to see what the current offerings are.

I know what the difference is between VT-x/VT-d, if I don't get them mixed up and should have proof read my message.


I've got VT-D on the current Xeon system with a S1200BTL mb, passing through a LSI raid card to a nas4free vm.

I've had VT-D on the DQ45CB with the above CPU doing the same.


I wouldn't got spending money on a new cpu/mb just to test this idea. If your current board has PCI then give it a go with that video card. With PCI-E your going to be restricted with what Amilithon supports to begin with.
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Old Yesterday, 13:22   #1575
milanca
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Hi milanca,
I wouldn't got spending money on a new cpu/mb just to test this idea. If your current board has PCI then give it a go with that video card. With PCI-E your going to be restricted with what Amilithon supports to begin with.

Absolutely agree. Spending money on something just to test something is not an option. I don't have time to do that, and that is a bigger problem. But this board, it seems so, nicely supports iommu and I'll give it a try when i get the bridge card. No PCI support, which is absolutely fine with new boards. But I was thinking of something like this:


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3299...rch-mainSearch


No rush here, easy, when it comes I will give it a go.


BR
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Old Today, 13:41   #1576
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Originally Posted by milanca View Post
Absolutely agree.No PCI support, which is absolutely fine with new boards. But I was thinking of something like this:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3299...rch-mainSearch

BR

The reviews are not very goof for that.... As you only have PCI-E, get a Matrox G550 PCI-E card.. I can confirm that that card works in Amithlon, as that's what I'm using.
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