Research on Micronik HD 1.76 MB Power M-disk - Page 4

pipper · 07 December 2022, 10:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by salteadorneo

One question, what would have to be done to make this modified drive work as an external drive? I have a second Chinon 357A functional, but have not been able to get it to work in a box as a hi unit, it is only recognized as a low drive. I assume that the high density disk signal is not sent to the amiga through the external connector.

It’s possible that the HD switch (which detects the HD hole in the floppy) is not working. For HD drives the switch is not engaged and thus should be closed. You can measure continuity at the switch. If there’s no continuity when there’s no drive inserted, you found the culprit.

I once had a FZ-357A that would detect HD floppies, send the correct DriveID to the Aniga, but eventually would not slow down to 150rpm. End of story: pin1 on the cable was broken. It needs to be grounded for the drive to work in HD mode.

chrisfi · 07 December 2022, 11:00

I’m closing this request for beta testers. I have more than I can cope with!

I will provide an update once I hear back from them.

Thanks to all those who have offered to test this.

salteadorneo · 07 December 2022, 13:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by pipper

It’s possible that the HD switch (which detects the HD hole in the floppy) is not working. For HD drives the switch is not engaged and thus should be closed. You can measure continuity at the switch. If there’s no continuity when there’s no drive inserted, you found the culprit.

I once had a FZ-357A that would detect HD floppies, send the correct DriveID to the Aniga, but eventually would not slow down to 150rpm. End of story: pin1 on the cable was broken. It needs to be grounded for the drive to work in HD mode.

As an internal unit it works correctly, both high and low. It must be a signal that is missing from the outer box itself. I'm going to look at it with other external boxes.

chrisfi · 07 December 2022, 14:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by salteadorneo

As an internal unit it works correctly, both high and low. It must be a signal that is missing from the outer box itself. I'm going to look at it with other external boxes.

As Jope posted - when using a HD floppy in an external enclosure you need to bypass the circuit in the enclosure that generates the driveID. In other words, connect pin 34 of the drive to pin 1 of the 23 way D-type.

salteadorneo · 08 December 2022, 20:56

It was done and it doesn't work. I'm going to check all the connections on that unit. It was done and it doesn't work. I'm going to check all the connections on that unit. The problem must be in the box itself, specifically in the flip-flops of the RDY or MTRX line. The box is from the Golden Image brand. The floppy is a Chinon FB-357A, It may be a problem similar to this https://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?p=1492655
When I modify a Sony, I will test it with several external boxes and I will inform you.

chrisfi · 15 December 2022, 20:52

Just a quick update using the feedback I have received so far. More to come, but it looks promising

Drives tested and work >

Model...........IC2..........Resistor Replaced?
===========================
T/B53.......D9848N..............Yes..............
Z/131.......BA6986FS...........No...............
E/131.......BA6986FS...........No...............

Many thanks to those testing this and providing feedback

lesta_smsc · 06 January 2023, 02:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisfi

If there are any early adopters out there who wouldn’t mind trying it out and reporting back to me, please send a DM.

Must have missed this memo lol

Great to see you're still hard at work.

Ive got around 4-5 different PC drives sitting here: Sony, TEAC, ALPS and I believe the other is Panasonic. Happy to consider modding if it helps, but seems like you've got your hands full already with offers so will wait on finished product

salteadorneo · 16 January 2023, 17:36

I have tried with three different Sony drives and, for some unknown reason, two of them, with manufacturing dates of 2002 and 2005, do not work as DD drives with Amigaos 3.2.1 (they give read write errors under the workbench) . However, they work perfectly with the Amigaos 3.1. A third unit, made in 2001, works fine with all Amigas I've tried. All units work with the Amiga Test Kit tests. The tests were carried out on two A3000s, one A500 and one A4000, the result was the same on all machines. With an Alps unit I have too, the same errors occurred.

hooverphonique · 17 January 2023, 10:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by salteadorneo

I have tried with three different Sony drives and, for some unknown reason, two of them, with manufacturing dates of 2002 and 2005, do not work as HDD drives with Amigaos 3.2.1 (they give read write errors under the workbench) . However, they work perfectly with the Amigaos 3.1. A third unit, made in 2001, works fine with all the friends I've tried. All units work with the Amiga Test Kit tests. The tests were carried out on two A3000s, one A500 and one A4000, the result was the same on all machines. With an Alps unit I have too, the same errors occurred.

AFAIK, amiga os (trackdisk.device) doesn't use the READY signal to determine if the drive is up to speed, but uses a timed delay instead - I wonder if this delay was changed in 3.2.1.

salteadorneo · 27 February 2023, 19:42

Hello! Is the final version of the Mod close to being published?

chrisfi · 22 April 2023, 16:56

Sorry about the prolonged absence on this one. A number of things have held this up - Xmas, family stuff, other projects and recovering for surgery which was slow, but all good now BTW.

Also, the people testing this for me are busy too and I’m still waiting on a few to get back to me. However, all those who have reported success with the mod but with the same minor issue with ATK reporting the drive ID as unstable with HD floppies. This doesn’t cause any problems and the Amiga reads and writes to both DD and HD floppies just fine.

I do have a few ideas I would like to try to get the drive ID stable such as trying a different and more capable toolchain for the PLD, but I do not have time to learn that right now. I do have some other simpler ideas I might try first, but again its finding time, so I am tempted to release this as a beta if there is enough interest.

What do you think?

salteadorneo · 26 April 2023, 20:23

I think you can release it as a beta, on one of the floppy drives it works pretty well. I already informed you about the problems with the most modern sony floppy drives and the trackdisk.device in the Amigaos 3.2. I have not tested it with 3.1.4.
If you need more proof, I have more floppy drives and gals.

dalek · 26 April 2023, 23:22

Regarding the ID flipping, have you tried adding a few decoupling capacitors across the GAL?

chrisfi · 27 April 2023, 22:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by salteadorneo

I think you can release it as a beta, on one of the floppy drives it works pretty well. I already informed you about the problems with the most modern sony floppy drives and the trackdisk.device in the Amigaos 3.2. I have not tested it with 3.1.4.
If you need more proof, I have more floppy drives and gals.

Thanks @salteadorneo and thanks for your assistance testing the mod. Your feedback was very helpful, especially spotting the issue with OS3.2. I similar problems when testing on OS3.1.4 but originally though I had a bad floppy drive. So far it seems a bit random - some Sony FDDs work fine others do not and from my experience this only happens when using DD disks. It will be interesting to hear how others get on when this is released.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalek

Regarding the ID flipping, have you tried adding a few decoupling capacitors across the GAL?

Thanks @dalek. This is on my list of, as I put it, ‘simpler ideas’ to try along with inline resistors in an attempt to reduce potential noise in the system. I say simpler, but in fact I’m struggling to find space to place these components inside the FDD case. I think I need to play more Tetris to hone my skills

jbenam · 28 April 2023, 08:54

I have the GALs and the drive in front of me on my lab’s desk - will try to find some time this weekend

Mine is a newer revision (2004), with a black front. I wonder if revision matters somehow in these issues you’re seeing with different drives?

Jope · 28 April 2023, 08:59

I finally got suitable GALs, so can try this in the upcoming weeks.

salteadorneo · 28 April 2023, 13:07

I have three sony drives and only the one made in 2001 worked in all conditions. The one made in 2001 and the one made in early 2002 are very similar. I have been looking for differences, but I only find the value of the resistor RV1. I changed it, but the result is the same. With the one made in 2005, black front, the same thing happens with the 2002 one.

For the 2001 to work correctly, you have to change the value of the other resistor, R21. I think the original value is 100K, I lowered it to 66K with a pair of 33K resistors in series. I didn't have anything else at hand at that time... :-)

The most modern ones work correctly on Amigaos 3.1 in SD mode. The bug is in amigaos 3.2, something has been touched on the trackdisk.device that doesn't work well for these models.

chrisfi · 28 April 2023, 15:00

The issue with some drives not fully working is a bit strange.

The one I have issues with is a Z/121 from Nov 2004. It works fine with HD disks, but with DD disks Workbench reports write errors at tracks 880, 882, 886. Interestingly it works fine formatting and reading in Workbench and both reading and writing with TSGUI using DD disks, its just writing DD disks with Workbench where it fails. I’ve not tried this FDD with an older version of WB because I have broken it

, but I think @salteadorneo has found the culprit.

I have another Z/121 FDD, but this is dated Oct 2005 and is slightly different internally to the Nov 2004 FDD. Also, both the T/B53 FDDs from Oct 2005 work fine with the mod so I don’t think we can tie this down to dates and revision numbers.

Great news @jbenam and @jope. Please keep us posted.

salteadorneo · 01 May 2023, 13:05

They are exactly the same errors that the two problematic floppy drives give me.

On the top of the board, near the HD/SD selector/switch, is a board revision number. The E/131 that works has revision LMLF30, the one that doesn't work has LMLF31. The other one I have is a Z121 with revision LMLF32 and it doesn't work.
There are very few differences between the LMLF31 and LMLF32, four resistors in the area near the flex of the reading head control motor, and in IC1. The LMLF31 mounts the CXA8061Q and the LMLF32 mounts the BH9558KV. The LMLF30 mounts the CXA8061Q.

DigDug · 05 May 2023, 12:04

I just got some GALs and ask myself: how does the @chrisfi project compare to AriseHD from https://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p...34&postcount=7? Which one is easier to solder, and which one is more compatible?
I would be happy to get a beta release, so I could compare myself.

08 December 2022, 20:56	#65
salteadorneo Registered User Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: malaga Posts: 47	It was done and it doesn't work. I'm going to check all the connections on that unit. It was done and it doesn't work. I'm going to check all the connections on that unit. The problem must be in the box itself, specifically in the flip-flops of the RDY or MTRX line. The box is from the Golden Image brand. The floppy is a Chinon FB-357A, It may be a problem similar to this https://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?p=1492655 When I modify a Sony, I will test it with several external boxes and I will inform you. Last edited by salteadorneo; 09 December 2022 at 14:28.

16 January 2023, 17:36	#68
salteadorneo Registered User Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: malaga Posts: 47	I have tried with three different Sony drives and, for some unknown reason, two of them, with manufacturing dates of 2002 and 2005, do not work as DD drives with Amigaos 3.2.1 (they give read write errors under the workbench) . However, they work perfectly with the Amigaos 3.1. A third unit, made in 2001, works fine with all Amigas I've tried. All units work with the Amiga Test Kit tests. The tests were carried out on two A3000s, one A500 and one A4000, the result was the same on all machines. With an Alps unit I have too, the same errors occurred. Last edited by salteadorneo; 17 January 2023 at 21:23.

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07 December 2022, 11:00	#62
chrisfi Registered User Join Date: May 2020 Location: Beds / UK Posts: 37	I’m closing this request for beta testers. I have more than I can cope with! I will provide an update once I hear back from them. Thanks to all those who have offered to test this.

15 December 2022, 20:52	#66
chrisfi Registered User Join Date: May 2020 Location: Beds / UK Posts: 37	Just a quick update using the feedback I have received so far. More to come, but it looks promising Drives tested and work > Model...........IC2..........Resistor Replaced? =========================== T/B53.......D9848N..............Yes.............. Z/131.......BA6986FS...........No............... E/131.......BA6986FS...........No............... Many thanks to those testing this and providing feedback

27 February 2023, 19:42	#70
salteadorneo Registered User Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: malaga Posts: 47	Hello! Is the final version of the Mod close to being published?

22 April 2023, 16:56	#71
chrisfi Registered User Join Date: May 2020 Location: Beds / UK Posts: 37	Sorry about the prolonged absence on this one. A number of things have held this up - Xmas, family stuff, other projects and recovering for surgery which was slow, but all good now BTW. Also, the people testing this for me are busy too and I’m still waiting on a few to get back to me. However, all those who have reported success with the mod but with the same minor issue with ATK reporting the drive ID as unstable with HD floppies. This doesn’t cause any problems and the Amiga reads and writes to both DD and HD floppies just fine. I do have a few ideas I would like to try to get the drive ID stable such as trying a different and more capable toolchain for the PLD, but I do not have time to learn that right now. I do have some other simpler ideas I might try first, but again its finding time, so I am tempted to release this as a beta if there is enough interest. What do you think?

26 April 2023, 20:23	#72
salteadorneo Registered User Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: malaga Posts: 47	I think you can release it as a beta, on one of the floppy drives it works pretty well. I already informed you about the problems with the most modern sony floppy drives and the trackdisk.device in the Amigaos 3.2. I have not tested it with 3.1.4. If you need more proof, I have more floppy drives and gals.

26 April 2023, 23:22	#73
dalek Registered User Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: NSW/Australia Posts: 462	Regarding the ID flipping, have you tried adding a few decoupling capacitors across the GAL?

28 April 2023, 08:54	#75
jbenam Italian Amiga Zealot Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Italy Age: 36 Posts: 1,910	I have the GALs and the drive in front of me on my lab’s desk - will try to find some time this weekend Mine is a newer revision (2004), with a black front. I wonder if revision matters somehow in these issues you’re seeing with different drives?

28 April 2023, 08:59	#76
Jope - Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Helsinki / Finland Age: 43 Posts: 9,861	I finally got suitable GALs, so can try this in the upcoming weeks.

28 April 2023, 13:07	#77
salteadorneo Registered User Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: malaga Posts: 47	I have three sony drives and only the one made in 2001 worked in all conditions. The one made in 2001 and the one made in early 2002 are very similar. I have been looking for differences, but I only find the value of the resistor RV1. I changed it, but the result is the same. With the one made in 2005, black front, the same thing happens with the 2002 one. For the 2001 to work correctly, you have to change the value of the other resistor, R21. I think the original value is 100K, I lowered it to 66K with a pair of 33K resistors in series. I didn't have anything else at hand at that time... :-) The most modern ones work correctly on Amigaos 3.1 in SD mode. The bug is in amigaos 3.2, something has been touched on the trackdisk.device that doesn't work well for these models.

28 April 2023, 15:00	#78
chrisfi Registered User Join Date: May 2020 Location: Beds / UK Posts: 37	The issue with some drives not fully working is a bit strange. The one I have issues with is a Z/121 from Nov 2004. It works fine with HD disks, but with DD disks Workbench reports write errors at tracks 880, 882, 886. Interestingly it works fine formatting and reading in Workbench and both reading and writing with TSGUI using DD disks, its just writing DD disks with Workbench where it fails. I’ve not tried this FDD with an older version of WB because I have broken it , but I think @salteadorneo has found the culprit. I have another Z/121 FDD, but this is dated Oct 2005 and is slightly different internally to the Nov 2004 FDD. Also, both the T/B53 FDDs from Oct 2005 work fine with the mod so I don’t think we can tie this down to dates and revision numbers. Great news @jbenam and @jope. Please keep us posted.

05 May 2023, 12:04	#80
DigDug Registered User Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: Germany Posts: 1	I just got some GALs and ask myself: how does the @chrisfi project compare to AriseHD from https://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p...34&postcount=7? Which one is easier to solder, and which one is more compatible? I would be happy to get a beta release, so I could compare myself.

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