01 November 2021, 17:39 | #1 |
Speedbump gimme goosebump
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Out of place memory req. with original of Beach Volley and with Quik & Silva
For some reason, the original of Beach Volley [1249] won't load unless it detects 0.5 Mb of slow / fast ram (additional ram). Unless I am mistaken, the game doesn't require (nor make use) of any additional ram. Issue can easily be reproduced both with WinUAE and the actual machine (mine is fitted with 1 Mb chip, but it's the same issue with memory cut down to 0.5 Mb chip, which I can accomplish thanks to a switch).
Last edited by SquawkBox; 04 November 2021 at 18:03. |
29 June 2022, 08:37 | #2 |
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Hello,
Indeed, it does not work without having 512 KB of Slow, even on WinUAE. Is it a "lost" and "recently" found original ? |
29 June 2022, 11:10 | #3 | |
CaptainM68K-SPS France
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29 June 2022, 15:43 | #4 |
Speedbump gimme goosebump
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As far as I am concerned, the issue here is whether the original (I mean floppy disk original) works with 512kb of chip or not. I would guess any A1000 or standard A500 could handle Beach Volley original (floppy disk original again) without having recourse to any memory expansion, hence the question remains (assuming Ocean didn't release two or more different "originals" with different mem requirements), why the IPF would require more ram, more specifically slow ram.
This can be verified by attempting to load the IPF (numbered 1249) with A500 Kick 1.3 and 512kb of chip, or with an Amiga deprived of any slow ram (e.q. mine, or any other ECS machine fitted with 1 MB of chip or more only). If two versions of Beach Volley were sold / cracked back in the days, then two separate IPF's should have been produced by the SPS team. |
30 June 2022, 08:53 | #5 |
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Hello,
WinUAE settings are correct for a basic A500. To try to find an answer, I tested several cracked versions and some do not pass with only 512 Kb. The loading stops at the same place as the version in IPF with a black screen. OK with 512 Ko: -------------- https://www.planetemu.net/rom/commod...fs-t-2-trilogy https://www.planetemu.net/rom/commod...ocean-cr-qtx-7 https://www.planetemu.net/rom/commod...-cr-qtx-m-clan NOK with 512 Ko: --------------- https://www.planetemu.net/rom/commod...ocean-cr-acc-4 * Version with the "byte bandit virus" * https://www.planetemu.net/rom/commod...-v-byte-bandit There must be two versions published at the time, one for 512 KB only (which I had cracked in 1990) and another requiring 512 KB of Chip + 512 KB of Slow. Is it intentional or just an error during the compilation, you should ask Michel Janicki if he remembers it. |
30 June 2022, 12:44 | #6 |
Speedbump gimme goosebump
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Which I had a cracked version of (else, peeps will think you coded the crack for that version back in the days ).
Also, it's not useful to mention versions bearing a virus, except if you want to elaborate about the virus itself. Since we wish for Amiga owners to try those versions requiring slow ram on their machine and report about it, we don't want to mention versions hit by a virus, even with a warning. Consider they were included in TOSEC for preservation purposes only. I know the emulation crowd, especially French , grabs them and spread them as long as they load properly with such and such emulator, but really it's not "good practice" in my opinion. |
30 June 2022, 15:13 | #7 |
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Yes ! Typo for the cracked version.
Paranoimia's version is just there to get another one that doesn't pass with just 512 KB, hence the caveat. By searching in the cracked versions, the solution was found. Read the last message: https://www.amigafrance.com/forums/t...-512-ko-de-ram |
30 June 2022, 20:32 | #8 |
Speedbump gimme goosebump
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I've read the last message, and I can't consider it solves anything. It's Ok for me to use one of the regular cracked versions (by regular I mean 512k chip only), but I am a generous person (not really, but anyway ) and I am trying to help those who would like to play that game from original AND whose miggy doesn't bear any slow ram e.q. A600 + Gotek.
Now, that sounds quite straightforward, right ? "This game", I would assume too boxed original copy works with 1.3 Kickstart and 512k of chip. Why ? Because it's such an old title (1989), documentation mentions full compatibility with Amiga 500, but also with Amiga 1000. Hunting an original (actual floppy disks bearing the original game) with different memory requirements would be the only way to prove another version does exist (e.q. reissue, budget version etc.). Now, reading backwards that Amiga France thread, someone did mention a fix to keep the game (adding add36k to the startup sequence) within the 512k chip limit. That's nice of him but what I am trying to achieve here is a bit different. Ideally, I would like Denis to process again the original he owns and withdraw the current IPF in favor of a cleaner one. The way I see it, any IPF is supposed to behave *exactly* like the original game it is issued from. Cracked versions are usually heavily modified, just because you notice some similarities between the IPF and the Accumulators version when you fired up WinUAE doesn't mean anything, most likely, it's just a coincidence. Aladin did pull your legs most probably, unexpanded Amiga were common back in the days, who would deny it (as a teen, I had one of these, adding 2nd FDD later on was the only modification I had made to it). Having said that, even if we ignore that fact, there were quite a few pre-AGA Amiga models deprived of any slow ram but yeah 99% of these people and 100% of EAB use a regular cracked version, and don't mind for any issue one would have to deal with as far as the original (the IPF, or its Gotek equivalent) is concerned. Of course, it's up to Denis to look into this potential issue (up to him). Personally, I think it's worth the effort even if it only applies to 1% of gotek users (those who, philosophically speaking, are reluctant to using cracked versions. Hey, it takes every kind of people as they say ) . |
30 June 2022, 20:49 | #9 |
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I think the Beach Volley issue is that Ocean France have used AmigaDOS which they don't normally do, and 1989/90 was the crossover period from OCS to ECS.
I suspect Beach Volley works perfectly fine in 512K on 1.2 and 1.3 OCS machines, but ECS is where things start to go wrong, and likely by the time the budget version was to be released, 1 meg machines were no longer the minority so it didn't become a problem that Ocean felt they had to fix? |
30 June 2022, 21:33 | #10 |
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I think there is nothing wrong with this IPF (it's just wrong per se ).
The game (which uses files in normal OFS format) just doesn't care about allocating anything and overwrites memory without regards. It is enough just the difference in allocation the system do for the Workbech's initial disk prompting screen, to accidentally allow it to work. Of course only with KS1.x because from 2.0+ more chip memory is required to work. So: wait for the hand splash screen to appear, then insert the disk and it will work with only 512KB of chip-ram. As for machines with 1MB of chip-ram, I'm pretty sure I patched this floppy a while ago. Last edited by ross; 30 June 2022 at 21:46. Reason: typos.. |
30 June 2022, 21:40 | #11 |
Speedbump gimme goosebump
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Have you ever stumbled upon a budget release of Beach Volley ? That would imply the first edition is missing from Denis collection of originals since only one single IPF was released.
I only have a vague idea about how "IPF'ification" of such and such dump works, and I trust the SPS team to do their best with so many slight variations but there is something I am curious about : Do their methods evolve with time ? I mean, assuming that particular IPF was produced e.q. 8 years ago, is there any chance a for a "cleaner" IPF by today's standards, methods and tools ? It's not the nicest thing to say I know but until proven otherwise, I can't help but thinking said IPF a) was issued from the only commercial version in existence b) is knackered -a very uncommon event- or let's say altered and wasn't checked thoroughly fresh out of the oven since no one had bothered playing the original from gotek before on an unexpanded machine. It would completely baffle me that Ocean would re-release that huge hit with different memory requirements, thereby alienating themselves from half (Ok, one third maybe, by 1989) of their consumer base. A publisher astutely fixing a game for 1 MB chip machines over the course of time, I've seen it done a couple of times, but the other way round err... |
30 June 2022, 21:48 | #12 |
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I have no idea if there are different versions of this game, but I guess you just need to check the contents of the various cracks and see if they contain a different code base.
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30 June 2022, 21:49 | #13 | |
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30 June 2022, 22:04 | #14 |
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This reminds me of The Settlers back in the day with 1MB A500. Inserting the floppy before the hand screen would make 35% of the sounds available, but inserting afterwards would only give 22%.
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30 June 2022, 22:05 | #15 |
CaptainM68K-SPS France
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Beach Volley is kick 1.3 only. Back in the day i had access to Beach Volley Hit squad release, and from memory, it never worked on kick 2.0.
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30 June 2022, 22:10 | #16 | ||||
CaptainM68K-SPS France
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The IPF 1249 is the retail version (read= 1st version release). If anyone has the budget version and wants to dump it, please do so. |
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01 July 2022, 00:10 | #17 | ||
Speedbump gimme goosebump
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@dlfr
It (I mean the IPF, or the converted for gotek image) won't work on ANY Amiga, except if that Amiga is fitted with slow / trapdoor ram ram. Also, it's a bit confusing when you keep on talking about "the game", do you imply the IPF, the original on floppy disk ? My machine is not an A500 +, it's a 1 MB chip Amiga 500 rev. 6, and fortunately I can switch between 1.3 and 3.1 Kickstart so the choice of most compatible kickstart is not an issue for me. That IPF numbered 1249 or the corresponding HFE won't load on ANY Amiga which isn't fitted with 512k slow ram or more aka it's not compliant to the original (the physical copy, the boxed game that was sold by Ocean) at least in terms of memory requirements, since the latter loads fine with kickstart 1.3 and 512k chip only (Well, I never bought the game but the documentation mentions full compatibility with the Amiga 1000 so...). Just between you and me, it's not the easiest thing to do to draw your attention on a problem which involves preservation. Use kickstart 1.3, use kickstart 1.3 I've read from you numerous times, all right, you win, I will . Also, NewSky has told us / you that the exact same issue can be reproduced when loading IPF in WinUAE with quickstart config. Sloppy gameplay ? That's because we have lost touch with the controls over the years. I have a fond memory of that game, it was quite fun even though the IA remains the same game after game. Quote:
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01 July 2022, 00:25 | #18 |
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WinUAE 1.3 ROM 512 Chip only Quickstart config. Wait for the hand screen, then mount the IPF. The game will load.
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01 July 2022, 01:30 | #19 | ||||
CaptainM68K-SPS France
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That IPF numbered 1249 or the corresponding HFE won't load on ANY Amiga which isn't fitted with 512k slow ram or more aka it's not compliant to the original (the physical copy, the boxed game that was sold by Ocean) at least in terms of memory requirements, since the latter loads fine with kickstart 1.3 and 512k chip only (Well, I never bought the game but the documentation mentions full compatibility with the Amiga 1000 so...). [/quote] It loads on my A500 with kick1.3 and 512kb of chip. that's the configuration for which ocean sold the game. You're stuck because you have already a kick1.3, but your 1mb of chip can't be reduced to 512kb of chip. Your Amiga is a version or a model almost non existant. the 1mb chip machine mostly came with the A500+ with its kickstart 2.0x. Beach volley is working on my A500 with Gotek if i follow the rule explained above: i let my A500 show the kick1.3 hand on screen, then i plug the USB key in the gotek, i choose Beach Volley, and voilĂ ! it loads Quote:
So since it's not a preservation problem, what do you want me to do ? Quote:
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01 July 2022, 04:00 | #20 | ||||
Speedbump gimme goosebump
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Sooo, if it's not down to the IPF, nor to my meg of chip ram, that leaves us to : The culprit ought to be the gotek (some unimplemented instructions within the HFE v3 format presumably, keirf you've got work to do ). As a side note, another rule of thumb could be described as such : Any machine fitted with slow ram (in addition to the usual chip ram) can boot the original game without having recourse to rule #1. Food for thought. Last edited by SquawkBox; 01 July 2022 at 05:51. |
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