AmigaOS 3.2 and beyond

[daxb]

Originally Posted by Daedalus

I'm also interested to see examples of games where this is an issue, because it's probably something that should be reported for a WHDLoad fix.

WHDLoad shouldn't have a problem with it ( http://whdload.de/docs/en/opt.html#FullChip ) if I understand it right. It (can) save and restore chipram.

And example game that needs 2MB chipram could be Capital Punishment. At least the documentation says that it "requires more CHIP RAM than any other game." It can create a boot disk during installation.

On my system A1200 1240 32MB 3.1 it works when "boot without startup-sequence" and than launch it but running other command before works too. I guess the whole 2MB aren't required. However, the WHDLoad version of Capital Punishment works fine from WB with much less then 2MB chipram free.

Generally we all know that chipram (also fastram) is always/often too little. The only solution is to get more in hardware (ram upgrades, vampire cards if you need more then 2MB chipram) or via emulation. The A500 with 512kb was much too little. AGA with 2MB was a nice upgrade but soon you notice it was still too little. Fastram: I upgraded from 8MB to 16MB to 32Mb and it was always not enough.

[alpine9000]

Originally Posted by daxb

WHDLoad shouldn't have a problem with it ( http://whdload.de/docs/en/opt.html#FullChip ) if I understand it right. It (can) save and restore chipram.

And example game that needs 2MB chipram could be Capital Punishment. At least the documentation says that it "requires more CHIP RAM than any other game." It can create a boot disk during installation.

On my system A1200 1240 32MB 3.1 it works when "boot without startup-sequence" and than launch it but running other command before works too. I guess the whole 2MB aren't required. However, the WHDLoad version of Capital Punishment works fine from WB with much less then 2MB chipram free.

Generally we all know that chipram (also fastram) is always/often too little. The only solution is to get more in hardware (ram upgrades, vampire cards if you need more then 2MB chipram) or via emulation. The A500 with 512kb was much too little. AGA with 2MB was a nice upgrade but soon you notice it was still too little. Fastram: I upgraded from 8MB to 16MB to 32Mb and it was always not enough.

Sounds to me like the Mac emulators need a WHDload slave

[Thomas Richter]

Originally Posted by daxb

Generally we all know that chipram (also fastram) is always/often too little. The only solution is to get more in hardware (ram upgrades, vampire cards if you need more then 2MB chipram) or via emulation.

Or by shuffling chip RAM free that isn't really needed with tools like the native P96 emulation which does not require graphics (other than the actual frame buffer, of course) in chip mem. So there are certainly options.

[Thomas Richter]

Originally Posted by alpine9000

Sounds to me like the Mac emulators need a WHDload slave

That doesn't work. The ShapeShifter requires a working operating system as basis to work from. It's not like your average game that stops the Os and then runs on the bare-bone hardware. In particular, AmigaOs on top of which Shapeshifter runs has its own resources in exactly the memory region MacOs wants to put its globals into, and that's pretty much one reason why this change was required.

[Thomas Richter]

Originally Posted by Minuous

Therefore why would one want to waste memory just in case the user decides they want to run one particular application that demands the use of particular absolute addresses?

It is not a "particular application", it is a "particular operating sytem" that runs mutiple applications. It is really a bit more than that.

[Thomas Richter]

Originally Posted by alpine9000

You keep saying that this is a hypotheical issue - as if no person in history has ever run of out chip ram on an Amiga.

So, you don't have an example? Then, go, troll elsewhere, thank you. If 24K makes a difference, something else is wrong with the design of whatever you run.

Originally Posted by alpine9000

It happens to people with 512kb or 1mb of chip ram, it happens to people with 2mb - and will obviously happens less to people that run 3.1 compared to people than run 3.1.4+ due to this design decision.

As with which applications? 24K is less than a 1-bitplane hi-res screen, or a single window with smart refresh.

Originally Posted by alpine9000

So my choices are ? A second reboot when I turn my computer on ?

No, a second reboot when you run such programs, of which you still haven't brought one as an example. Such programs typically would require you to boot from floppy anyhow, if they use the Os at all. Copy the tool to the disk, call it in the startup-sequence, problem solved. For such games, you need to reboot in first place. It's not unlikely that you need the reboot anyhow if your 3.1.4 or 3.2 is based on LoadModule.

Originally Posted by alpine9000

Stick with OS 3.1 ? Close that music player before I open that extra image in my paint program?

Precisely. If you are short on RAM, you are short on RAM. That extra image will take more than 24K anyhow, and an application that needs "all of chipram" wouldn't work from the workbench in first place, so this an argument I don't buy into.

Originally Posted by alpine9000

Can't this end now please - what else is there to say?

That you're still in a very hypothetical setting and nothing has matured out of this thread except the usual FUD?

[alpine9000]

@Thomas - I am out - peace my fellow Amiga brother

[Minuous]

Originally Posted by Thomas Richter

It is not a "particular application", it is a "particular operating sytem" that runs mutiple applications. It is really a bit more than that.

Most emulators will run an OS that has multiple applications available, the emulator is still just one program though.

It is ironic that AmigaOS is being now deliberately limited by the design choices made by a competitor OS.