Legality of CoffinOS and Vampire Team

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by Lord Aga

I just stated that it is still a very bad look to start a discussion against something before first checking in-house.

Agreed and I've explained the situation above in terms our action, now that it's been brought to our attention...

So again I will as you or anybody else for that matter...

What else do you want us to do exactly???

[Lord Aga]

Hey, I wouldn't have asked you to do even that I got no problem with the way EAB has operated for years. It was just a comment that it looks bad. I'm not asking for any kind of action.

That being said, I still don't get what prompted all of this? The EAB FTP purge, the anti-Apollo crusade, the futile Amiga legality discussion...

Also, is OS 3.9 really still legally for sale?

[AMike]

Originally Posted by DamienD

What else do you want us to do exactly???

The question is what you want exactly? What's the main target of this thread? To state that coffin is illegal? I think that's nothing new and everyone knows it. So what's next?

[Hewitson]

Originally Posted by Lord Aga

Also, is OS 3.9 really still legally for sale?

It's available for purchase, but you'll receive a burnt CD-R. It wouldn't surprise me if the "legal" copies of 3.9 are actually pirated as well.

[sean_sk]

Originally Posted by Hewitson

It's available for purchase, but you'll receive a burnt CD-R. It wouldn't surprise me if the "legal" copies of 3.9 are actually pirated as well.

Where? Vesalia aren't selling it even though it's still listed and neither is amigastore.eu.

[Hewitson]

Originally Posted by sean_sk

Where? Vesalia aren't selling it even though it's still listed and neither is amigastore.eu.

I assumed it was available from Vesalia, as you said it's still listed on their website.

I bought a copy from there a few years ago and it was burnt. First and last time I try to do the right thing and buy a legal copy of AmigaOS.

[britelite]

Originally Posted by Hewitson

II bought a copy from there a few years ago and it was burnt. First and last time I try to do the right thing and buy a legal copy of AmigaOS.

Just because something comes on a CDr doesn't mean it's illegal though.

[Hewitson]

Originally Posted by britelite

Just because something comes on a CDr doesn't mean it's illegal though.

No, it doesn't. But it does mean it is questionable. If I'm paying for a piece of software I expect it to be provided on a commercially produced CD-ROM, not a CD-R that was potentially burnt by some kid in his bedroom.

[Lord Aga]

Originally Posted by Hewitson

It's available for purchase, but you'll receive a burnt CD-R. It wouldn't surprise me if the "legal" copies of 3.9 are actually pirated as well.

That is why I asked. I'm not aware of OS 3.9 being sold anywhere else but Vesalia (which doesn't seem to be the case anymore). Does anyone else know of another source?

[britelite]

Originally Posted by Hewitson

If I'm paying for a piece of software I expect it to be provided on a commercially produced CD-ROM, not a CD-R that was potentially burnt by some kid in his bedroom.

While I agree that a pressed CD is nicer to have, what really matters is that the seller actually has the right to sell the software, not what medium it comes on.

EDIT: Then again, I'd rather see software not available in original packaging anymore to be sold as a download anyway.

[Hewitson]

Originally Posted by britelite

While I agree that a pressed CD is nicer to have, what really matters is that the seller actually has the right to sell the software, not what medium it comes on.

Yes, that's true too. I guess my point is that if its a burnt CD, you don't know if they have the rights or not.

Originally Posted by britelite

EDIT: Then again, I'd rather see software not available in original packaging anymore to be sold as a download anyway.

For an OS I would agree, but sometimes it's nice to have the packaging (if it's one of your favourite games, for example).

[Bruce Abbott]

Originally Posted by Minuous

Incompetently implemented how?

Distributed on CD ROM, but none of my Amigas have a CD ROM drive and it wouldn't be easy to add one. Must be run from the CD or installed to a hard drive (you can make an 'emergency boot disk', but it doesn't actually boot 3.9). If you try to install it manually and don't get all the files in the right place it just doesn't work (no useful error messages).

If I had paid for it I would have been pissed.

And as for bloat, it's about 10Mb or so without the extensive collection of WB backdrops and the optional internet software; that's hardly bloated.

So ~12 floppy disks worth? Like I said, bloated.

So you seem to want everyone to restrict themselves to only using a crap 26 year old version of the OS,

You want to force everyone to into buying OS 3.9 if they want to run software that is supposedly written for OS3. That's the PC way of doing things, not Amiga.

and force programmers to only target that version. You say "the Amiga should not die" but seem to be doing your best to kill it.

Programmers can do what they like, but they must realize that if they target 3.9 it will alienate a lot of Amiga owners. That kind of fragmentation is what was killing the Amiga.

As a user, why would I want to miss out on all the improvements made over the past 26 years?

'All' the improvements made over the past 26 years? OS 3.9 doesn't offer much.

As a developer, why would I want my users to miss out on those improvements?

As a developer, I don't want to limit my audience to only those willing to go to the trouble and expense of 'upgrading' to OS 3.9. I even make my software 1.x compatible if possible (for myself as well as others, since I also have an A500).

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by AMike

The question is what you want exactly?

You and other members are stating that EAB is just as bad as the Apollo team... totally different league, as has been explained many times throughout this thread.

EAB is taking action to clean up anything on our resouces / remove files; that we weren't arware of!!!

Also, all you members slinging mud at EAB. What the hell are you doing on this forum then???

I do not associate with any company / forum / webpage that I believe is non-ethical and undertaking dubious practices. You're a bunch of hypocrites being members here...

You know where door is; I suggest you use it.

Originally Posted by AMike

What's the main target of this thread? To state that coffin is illegal? I think that's nothing new and everyone knows it. So what's next?

The Apollo team need to the same as EAB; and as what any other ethical / commercial company would.

Clean up this mess, disassociate totally with "CoffinOS" (which we know they won't since they are involved in the creation / distribution), remove any software still for sale from the distro, remove any links on their website / forum linking to "CoffinOS" etc.

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by Lord Aga

That being said, I still don't get what prompted all of this? The EAB FTP purge, the anti-Apollo crusade, the futile Amiga legality discussion...

It started in this thread where ALB42 rightfully stopped his software running on CoffinOS and Vampire hardware due to moral grounds: MUIMapparium

He then got loads of grief from numerous members here for his decision...


---------------------------------------------------------------------------


A member then posted this piece of imformation:

Originally Posted by Weaselrama

Before you download and install Coffin OS, you should be aware of the following challenge to its legal status. I was not aware of the controversy:

https://www.amiga-news.de/en/news/AN...-00011-EN.html

---------------------------------------------------------------------------


Then this all kicked off...

[Lord Aga]

ALB42 is certainly free to make his software work or not on whatever he wants. Other users should also be free to comment how that's cool or stupid or whatever.

That still doesn't explain: The EAB FTP purge, the anti-Apollo crusade, the futile Amiga legality discussion...

I don't see anyone asking for EAB FTP cleanup. I see people pointing out shady content but that's more of a reaction and nobody actually demanded it to be removed. And, unless there was something Coffin OS related uploaded to EAB, I don't see the reason to rant about it.

I would say this has been an emotional, not-very-well thought up pile of actions that has created a whole lot of mess, since everyone was perfectly satisfied with the EAB operation for years (decades?) and did not ask for changes.

[Hewitson]

The question still remains... Where can OS 3.9 be legally purchased from?

If the answer is nowhere, then this discussion is absolutely pointless.

[Lord Aga]

That too. Since it was a very fiery point of contest.

[UberFreak]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abandonware

According to this definition, OS3.9 has been abandonware for years.

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by Lord Aga

ALB42 is certainly free to make his software work or not on whatever he wants. Other users should also be free to comment how that's cool or stupid or whatever.

That still doesn't explain: The EAB FTP purge, the anti-Apollo crusade, the futile Amiga legality discussion...

I don't see anyone asking for EAB FTP cleanup. I see people pointing out shady content but that's more of a reaction and nobody actually demanded it to be removed. And, unless there was something Coffin OS related uploaded to EAB, I don't see the reason to rant about it.

I would say this has been an emotional, not-very-well thought up pile of actions that has created a whole lot of mess, since everyone was perfectly satisfied with the EAB operation for years (decades?) and did not ask for changes.

You can saw that you don't understand the "EAB FTP Server" cleanup... why don't you read through this exact thread again then, it's very obvious.

Numerous people are stating that EAB is as bad as the Apollo team; this is simply not true.

We have rules clearly displayed regarding what can be hosted on EAB resources i.e:

... Workbench disks, Kickstart ROMs & software or music files still supported/for sale

Originally Posted by Magix

If you want to upload some files to the server, please consider the following upload rules:

Upload Rules

1. DO NOT upload "Workbench Disks", "Kickstart ROMs/Disks" & software or music files still supported/for sale.
2. DO NOT upload NEVER EVER APC & TCP Software.
3. Upload your files to folder called your FTP User Name in ~Uploads (create one if it does not exist).
4. Post a reply here what you have uploaded or create a thread about it when you have several files to upload.

* * * W A R N I N G - - - W A R N I N G - - - W A R N I N G - - - W A R N I N G - - - W A R N I N G - - - W A R N I N G * * *


Those found in violation of points 1 & 2 of the above rules will automatically earn themselves the following ban:-

1. First Offence a 1 week ban
2. Second Offence a 1 month ban
3. Third offence a permanent ban

and have their EAB File Server accounts suspended until further notice or disabled permanently.


* * * W A R N I N G - - - W A R N I N G - - - W A R N I N G - - - W A R N I N G - - - W A R N I N G - - - W A R N I N G * * *

Now again; we were not aware that KS ROMs were contained within compilations uploaded to the "EAB File Server".

Being a responsible / ethical forum; we are cleaning up this mess... therefore the "EAB FTP Server" is offline until further notice; so that we can go through and make sure we stick by our rules.

Quite simple really.

[Hewitson]

Originally Posted by UberFreak

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abandonware

According to this definition, OS3.9 has been abandonware for years.

As has MUI, but we all know what happened when I tried to say that in the MUI Keygen thread.

Maybe the Amiga is becoming too much of a "goody two shoes" computer for me. Used to be everyone had boxes full of pirated disks, now you download a copy of a 20 year old OS and you're Satan himself.