04 July 2008, 00:11 | #141 | |
Retired Quartex Sysop
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If you just want it that bit harder it will happen!!! Tell me, did you hold your breath until your parents gave in to you when you were (still are?) a child. Thanks, this post is one of the few that actually made me snigger. Not a full blown laugh but a good honest snigger. Naive, but funny!!! |
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04 July 2008, 10:34 | #142 |
Super Robot Pilot
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Really I don't know if I will buy one... :|
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04 July 2008, 18:35 | #143 |
A4000T owner :)
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If it makes it to the market and it is classic amiga stuff compatible and it is not super expensive I'll want to buy one
I'm hoping it makes it but I'm not holding my breath, still I wish the developers all the luck in the world because it would be cool to see the project succeed!! |
05 July 2008, 12:26 | #144 | |
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1. Constant criticism and negativity. or... 2. A positive encouraging outlook. Do you remember that whole 'Bye...' saga which started because the developer of TLSFMem had enough of the negativity of an Amiga user? Did the comments of that Amiga user help us in the long run? Hell f*cking no! No one asked the Thomas Hirsch to start the Natami project, but now we know about it should we should be glad he's got this far and hope that something tangible comes out of it. That is not naivety. @all thinking about ASIC stuff These companies may be able to offer us affordable ASIC options for future Natami revisions: http://www.easic.com/ http://viasic.com/ |
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05 July 2008, 20:27 | #145 |
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pipe dreams maybe but i for one am still encourgaged by the fact that people still believe
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06 July 2008, 01:35 | #146 |
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I'll get excited when I see something delivered. Too many broken promises. False dawns.
Hmm where is that PPC Shark and that Coldfire Dragon and ACK's PPC card... only Jens Schoenfeld has shown himself able to deliver and thats cos he is realistic what he announces/plans. |
06 July 2008, 02:33 | #147 | |
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I'm not asking you to be excited. If you can't offer constructive criticism it would be best to try and ignore the project IMO. Be positive, give advice, or shut up, that's what I'm asking for. |
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06 July 2008, 03:11 | #148 |
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Forgive my ignorance, what's a 'hardened' FPGA? (I know what an FPGA is)
and what's an ASIC? |
06 July 2008, 03:43 | #149 | |
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FPGA - Fully (re-)programmable chip (I'll skip any additional info as you said you're familiar with FPGAs). 'Hardened' FPGA (a.k.a. structured ASIC) - Similar architecture to FPGAs, lowering development costs. Closer (than FPGAs) to ASIC level performance, but none of the FPGAs re-programmability. ASIC - Custom chip designed specifically for a certain task. Best possible performance but known to be costly to develop. Example of an ASIC? Loads of them, but as we're on an Amiga board let's pick the AGA chipset found in Commodore Amigas. I'm sure others here can give you more in-depth information if you wish. |
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07 July 2008, 13:00 | #150 | |
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Just cos someone doesn't agree with you when you wanna fart sunshine about a project that has not delivered a product or anything yet doesn't mean we are not allowed to express our opinion. Free speech and all - unless you'd rather we only say stuff YOU approve of. It's the internet man, not a Police State! |
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07 July 2008, 19:48 | #151 | |
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As for positive thinking, I still positively think that you'll be able to get good gaming rig + Wii for price of this new system, and of course if this ever get released. Isn't that optimistic?? @ HenryCase - how's thing with Bill's signature negative or critical?? Come on, it's Amiga.inc we're talking about - think a bit postive! |
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09 July 2008, 22:25 | #152 | ||
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I was not being rude, I was being frank.
You're a little misguided. For me to be losing an argument we need to have had an argument in the first place. All I have done is point out why you were wrong. An argument is a two way thing, you need to criticise me if we're going to argue. Quote:
All I'm saying is negativity will get us nowhere good, but positivity might buy us time to get somewhere decent. You're advice is not to hold my breath. Fine, I can at least understand where that attitude comes from. If you want to see something succeed but you don't think it will my advice is to shut up (if you don't have something constructive to say). That might sound a little rude to you, but sometimes it helps to be brash to get a message across. Quote:
Perhaps you need to better understand what free speech means. For me to interfere with your free speech I would need to silence you against your will. I am not doing so. I am, believe it or not, giving you advice (in an unconventional form maybe). I support your right to chat shit on the Internet, I just wish you didn't bother. Last edited by HenryCase; 09 July 2008 at 22:32. |
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09 July 2008, 22:28 | #153 |
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09 July 2008, 22:42 | #154 |
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I have read in this thread that developing an asic is costly, and that needs lot of money, but the c64 dtv runs off an asic and sure the design wasn't that expensive. Or am i wrong?
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09 July 2008, 23:49 | #155 | |
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IIRC the C64DTV ASIC had a company funding its manufacture, I doubt Jeri could have raised the funds for the ASIC design without them. |
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09 July 2008, 23:54 | #156 | |
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They reportedly got a damn good deal though. I am pretty sure that Jeri was an employee / contractor for a 3rd party company with a lot of cash. They worked in a very,very old geometry, directly with the chinese FAB (factory) (probably one who bought all their equipment from another FAB that was being upgraded), they even chose the cheapest chip package, just bond the wafer to the PCB and cover with epoxy glue to keep the cost down. I would love to know more of the real details (including financing) of the C64DTV project. I have come across a few interesting tidbits. The developers mention in their blogs several times about not being able to make a 100% compatible due to area constraints which were imposed by final prices and profit margins. They also mention that they re-spun the chip (at least 3 times) which must have been an added expense. The chips that I make, which are not that much more complicated than NatAmi, cost about $3M from concept to working silicon. Last edited by alexh; 10 July 2008 at 00:16. |
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10 July 2008, 01:06 | #157 |
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10 July 2008, 01:49 | #158 |
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On the Natami website they already said they weren't going to use an ASIC. The Hardened FPGAs will be cheaper than the ASIC ever would have been. Also, note that the FPGA on the Natami 60 will be large enough to hold the 68070 core along with SuperAGA if and when it comes out.
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10 July 2008, 01:57 | #159 |
Lesser Talent
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I really hope it can cook bacon perfectly, that'd be swell.
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10 July 2008, 08:22 | #160 |
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We've already had this conversation, hardened ASICs are cheaper... but still in the $200,000 - $300,000 NRE region for production.
Some vendors do offer what is called "shuttle-run" or MPW where the mask only contains one or two dies per wafer instead of the usual 100's (the others on the wafer being other people's projects). The NRE of an MPW is significantly lower as the cost of the masks is shared but the price per chip is much, much higher and if you want production quantities you have to buy a new mask. |
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