AGA or RTG

[YouKnowWho]

Originally Posted by trixster

Amibay

https://www.amibay.com/showthread.ph...ight=Aa3000%2B

https://www.amibay.com/showthread.ph...ight=Aa3000%2B

Hese occasionally posts on here. He is a hobbyist so as others have pointed out he may not reply instantly, or at all.

For all custom chips, ICs, the BOM for passives, the pcbs, you’re looking at £1000. Assembly of motherboard and busboard is iro £265

You then need to factor in a case, psu, keyboard etc.

Very boutique, not really comparable to the efficiency users will benefit from in the A1200 Reloaded project. And efficiency tends to drive uptake. To me that Reloaded sounds like it will be the only really new true Amiga computer in a long long time with original AGA chipset and 68K.

[trixster]

“Only original new true Amiga computer”

Nonsense. The AA3000+ is available. You contact hese, you order it, you wait a few months and it arrives, tested and working.

The A1200 Reloaded is not available, no one knows what it will cost, when it will be available and what it will provide. It was announced years ago so could currently be considered vapour

[YouKnowWho]

Originally Posted by stefcep2

Look we'll agree to disagree, Not a single one of your arguments has convinced me that its the buyer whose being unreasonable here.

Yeah, he just seems to be arguing this for sake of arguing now. I'm not saying the consumer is always right, but the consumer wants to help you and support your work and you crap on them? Seems counter intuitive, and I can't believe he doesn't understand this. Honestly, he's defending the WARP1260 boys and their efforts because they don't have the time to defend themselves. No big deal, if the TF1260 pricing on that Amibay link no new user can possibly reply to (because Registration is closed) is correct, the WARP1260 is hardly an offering many people will buy anyway, so WARP1260 boys don't have to worry about replying to emails anymore. WAPR1260 should have grabbed the money while the window was open and "people were dicks" so no one could get that TF. Now it's over. Hope you didn't buy one. And I hope you weren't hoping the RTG option becomes available either.

Originally Posted by stefcep2

This is how i understand it: When it comes to niche hobbies, you have enthusiasts and then you have the "ultra's".

I think you're being politically correct. It is more like users and geeks.

The users want a ready product, ease of use, reliability, function. Values for example that I appreciate iComp for as I've noted. They want to pay and be done.

The geeks want to tinker, figure things out, make things work, build from scratch. They hold relative contempt for the users because they find them to be inferior and lesser because they don't understand the 30-40 year old technology engineering details or issues.

This is of course simplistic, but in this community, now that I've returned after not being on the Amiga for decades, it is really tangible and it feels that way.

This is why I sing praises for iComp - there is no such behaviour from them. They treat you nice. Sell you the hardware you want at a click. It works. It's lovely. Quick reply if you need something or have a question. Revolutionary!

Originally Posted by stefcep2

The enthusiast will settle for an '030, some RAM, maybe an FPU, compact flash card, wifi card and call it day.

The "ultras" want to have the best that is possible. 80 mHz '060, RTG network card, USB, fast drives sound card. Possibly things they wanted "back in the day" but couldn't afford. 30 years later, they can. And so they put up with whatever from anyone who promises to deliver that. Because they want it. A lot. Its emotional, not rational so its pointless to have a rational argument.

What I find curious is what actually happens when they actually turn it on and actually do something with it?

You're spot on. I've touched on this many times. At some point you have to ask "WHY?". What will it do for me? $360 USD for TF to run a demo? I'll take 2!
...any chance this demo runs in an emulator?

There is no doubt that these fast decked out systems are impressive. But they exist in the real world out here with other solutions. Pi4 smokes them all it appears and costs nearly nothing. Vampire is nice, but MISTer can run so many more cores and do so many awesome fun things - wouldn't you give up some 68080 fake CPU speed to have nearly every gaming console from the Amiga era available to you as well? Arcade machines? Mac? 486 system?

[YouKnowWho]

Originally Posted by trixster

“Only original new true Amiga computer”

Nonsense. The AA3000+ is available. You contact hese, you order it, you wait a few months and it arrives, tested and working.

The A1200 Reloaded is not available, no one knows what it will cost, when it will be available and what it will provide. It was announced years ago so could currently be considered vapour

trixter,

I can't buy one because I can't register on Amibay, because registration is closed - remember?

But anyhow, 1500 Euro...wouldn't I be able to get two complete clean A1200 and stuff them each with a TF1260 for the price of this AA3000+?

Seems like this AA3000++ is more about being "special" than about function. Granted, you can gave RTG on the AA3000++

Where will you get the case for the AA3000++? Will you kill an A3000 to house this AA3000++? Not really a new computer then really, right?

[trixster]

You seem to be very good at taking problems specific to you and declaring them to be the fact for everyone.

Comparing the purchase price of second hand 30 year old computers to a new, hand made one with far more features is rather silly. A 1200 with tf1260 is a very different machine to an aa3000+.

Being special rather than form and function? What on earth does this mean? The aa3000+ combines the features of a 4000 and a 3000 plus a lot more. It’s is an entirely practical design that has been expertly realised.

[Chucky]

take a note: I nevertold I sold 500 TF1260s. I sold that there are aprox 500 TF1260s sold. quite a big difference.

and actually I think you are not understanding what it is being an Amiga-person. you as a person might actually NEED to look around. not just being a "customer" and have everything served. we are talking about 30+ year old technology with lots of components not available. this is why you in some cases needs to supply own chips. like 060s. aga chipset etc.. still you demand that everyone stands up and gives YOU. the entitled person everything. sorry it doesn't work like that. so if you cannot get arsed to understand what is required for YOU to get what YOU want. you will not get it..

and then you have the nerve to nag about price. when YOU do not feel like solder the stuff together. YOU are ENTITLED to have everyone work for YOU. also for FREE.. no idea about how much components to build an AA3000+ etc is reuired. NO. everyone needs to fill YOUR needs. guess what. will not happen..

but luckly you cannot get an 1200 with a tF1260 as you have proven being a customer that demands too much. and as we builders are not driven by the money. you are onb the "nogo" to send aboard to. as WHY? entitled persons? that will "talk to the manager" when you have issues not understanding how a 060 work. it would end in a "support nightmare" and we preferblu ship a board to someone that knows what it is and actually bother to care some.. not have anything handed to you like you are the only person in the world.

[YouKnowWho]

Originally Posted by trixster

You seem to be very good at taking problems specific to you and declaring them to be the fact for everyone.

Comparing the purchase price of second hand 30 year old computers to a new, hand made one with far more features is rather silly. A 1200 with tf1260 is a very different machine to an aa3000+.

Being special rather than form and function? What on earth does this mean? The aa3000+ combines the features of a 4000 and a 3000 plus a lot more. It’s is an entirely practical design that has been expertly realised.

I understand the logic here, and as I said trixster, it is impressive that this was done and that it works.

Simply the fact in addition an A3000 must be sacrificed seems a bit excessive. Would have been nice for example to have A1500 have a back for this AA3000+, would make it quite compelling I think.

[YouKnowWho]

Originally Posted by Chucky

take a note: I nevertold I sold 500 TF1260s. I sold that there are aprox 500 TF1260s sold. quite a big difference.

and actually I think you are not understanding what it is being an Amiga-person. you as a person might actually NEED to look around. not just being a "customer" and have everything served. we are talking about 30+ year old technology with lots of components not available. this is why you in some cases needs to supply own chips. like 060s. aga chipset etc.. still you demand that everyone stands up and gives YOU. the entitled person everything. sorry it doesn't work like that. so if you cannot get arsed to understand what is required for YOU to get what YOU want. you will not get it..

and then you have the nerve to nag about price. when YOU do not feel like solder the stuff together. YOU are ENTITLED to have everyone work for YOU. also for FREE.. no idea about how much components to build an AA3000+ etc is reuired. NO. everyone needs to fill YOUR needs. guess what. will not happen..

but luckly you cannot get an 1200 with a tF1260 as you have proven being a customer that demands too much. and as we builders are not driven by the money. you are onb the "nogo" to send aboard to. as WHY? entitled persons? that will "talk to the manager" when you have issues not understanding how a 060 work. it would end in a "support nightmare" and we preferblu ship a board to someone that knows what it is and actually bother to care some.. not have anything handed to you like you are the only person in the world.

Oh sweet mercy Chucky. If this TF is for no one, make it for yourself and keep it to yourself.

Clearly the intent is to share it with others and you are doing an awful job of making it simple. Sure, some have jumped through hoops for it.

Yeah, it is about me. But the fact I'm taking the time to share my experience with you should make a lightbulb go off...HEY, we did this for the community, and we're not supporting them like we should.

Whatever man....this whole experience really has made me realize it was dumb for me to get back into the Amiga in the first place. I'll play with it over the winter to satisfy my nostalgia and dump this hardware, keep the MISTer and move on. This is a mighty drain of my time.

[Chucky]

the IF is for the masses. but "entitled" persons actng up and think they are the centre of the world. nahh. why sell to those persons?

so it is for others and it is simple to get it. but not if you got an attitude.. as WHY sell to that kind of persons? it will just cost you in time supporting..
well and if you believed that when you got back to the amiga everyone would be there standing in line.. sorry no. this is a hobby-driven community where you give and take.. not just take.

there are no fancy websites for all to "click and buy" no fancy websites to click "support" or "GIVE ME SUPPORT" it is asking, checking, caring.. not just GIVE ME.

[trixster]

Originally Posted by YouKnowWho

I understand the logic here, and as I said trixster, it is impressive that this was done and that it works.

Simply the fact in addition an A3000 must be sacrificed seems a bit excessive. Would have been nice for example to have A1500 have a back for this AA3000+, would make it quite compelling I think.

That is not a fact. Why does an A3000 have to be sacrificed? I have seen people create their own bespoke cases (a chap on ppa.pl called SimonGK has done just that). I have seen someone use a checkmate case with a bespoke daughterboard. There will be numerous dead a3000’s out there (varta, capacitors) where the case has been repurposed to fit an aa3000+. I have seen several people fit their new board onto an open test bench (like some pc enthusiasts do).

[Chucky]

there are alot of A3000 out where varta have eaten the board (sure my ReAmiga 3000 can fix that) also where someone screwed up agnus etc removing it. renderinhg the A3k "useless" then popping out the super dmac and ramsey and build an AA3000+ etc..

[YouKnowWho]

Originally Posted by Chucky

the IF is for the masses. but "entitled" persons actng up and think they are the centre of the world. nahh. why sell to those persons?

so it is for others and it is simple to get it. but not if you got an attitude.. as WHY sell to that kind of persons? it will just cost you in time supporting..
well and if you believed that when you got back to the amiga everyone would be there standing in line.. sorry no. this is a hobby-driven community where you give and take.. not just take.

there are no fancy websites for all to "click and buy" no fancy websites to click "support" or "GIVE ME SUPPORT" it is asking, checking, caring.. not just GIVE ME.

GIVE ME?

Oh, forGIVE ME, I thought it was being sold for $360 USD each based on the link provided here. Let me register a different user name and then ask you nicely like a subservient puppy to GIVE ME one Chucky.

[Chucky]

yeah an dthose 360 includes the cost of building a board. and in that case also sourcing a cpu taking the risc of getting fakes etc.. also covers developmentcosts etc. and yeah your tone there clearly shows that you would be totaly entitled to life-time support of any issue. being a weird floppy-based game or whdload that have nothing to do with the card but more other issues it could be.. (as software is poorly written and not working on 060 etc)

again: ENTITLED..

you constantly shows why you do not want "customers"

[YouKnowWho]

Originally Posted by Chucky

yeah an dthose 360 includes the cost of building a board. and in that case also sourcing a cpu taking the risc of getting fakes etc.. also covers developmentcosts etc. and yeah your tone there clearly shows that you would be totaly entitled to life-time support of any issue. being a weird floppy-based game or whdload that have nothing to do with the card but more other issues it could be.. (as software is poorly written and not working on 060 etc)

again: ENTITLED..

you constantly shows why you do not want "customers"

Yeah, I'm entitled because I want to give a creator of an item ANY AMOUNT they see fit to cover their efforts, time and costs for creating what they have created for the community and reward them for their work and benefit from it as a result.

I'm entitled because when I send an email to someone saying, "Here, take my 1000 Euro - where do I send it?" they don't bother replying.

Yeah, I'm entitled because you've written a number of ridiculous replies and provided links to items that ended, or Amibay links where REGISTRATION IS CLOSED or wanting me to be on the SPAM spying creepy Facebook, instead of just applying K.I.S.S. and saying, $xxx.xx, send it to XYZ, include shipping address.

Actually, what I get from you is that this TF1260 works but is flaky and you don't want to put it into someone's hands who will expose it as such. Why else would you be so concerned about SUPPORT if the thing works reliably? Like the ACA1221lc does.

[Chucky]

you simpy doesn't get the concept of something in development.. when the new firmware is out yo just flash it. but again. I guess that it too much as that would require YOU to do something..

and Jens hw work reliably. well usuall yes. but have also been cases of issues. and there where software stop to be updated (indivision anyone?) or hardware that allows USB but not hotswapping without killing the hardware with a weird blame of your PSU is wrong? or where you can buy a accelerator. and then he adds a function like the IDE Speeder. but you are not allowed to updaye your card to add this feature. you have to pay extra for it. even if it is the same card.

but it IS easy to get a TF card. it is just to understand that the world is not going around YOU as person. even if yiou send moneu that bearly covers the cost of the hardware not understanding the big part of costs and time development takes.

and there are people who got Warp 1260s aswell. I know several not just me. even if it is hard..

but well.. do get the ACA1221LC. it is apparently your thing. slow cpu and almost no fastmem for a price higher than a board that have a faster cpu and much more memory. and that actually are acivly updated and guess what. firmware update will not cost you money and your PSU will not be blamed at when there is an issue

[YouKnowWho]

Originally Posted by Chucky

you simpy doesn't get the concept of something in development.. when the new firmware is out yo just flash it. but again. I guess that it too much as that would require YOU to do something..

and Jens hw work reliably. well usuall yes. but have also been cases of issues. and there where software stop to be updated (indivision anyone?) or hardware that allows USB but not hotswapping without killing the hardware with a weird blame of your PSU is wrong? or where you can buy a accelerator. and then he adds a function like the IDE Speeder. but you are not allowed to updaye your card to add this feature. you have to pay extra for it. even if it is the same card.

but it IS easy to get a TF card. it is just to understand that the world is not going around YOU as person. even if yiou send moneu that bearly covers the cost of the hardware not understanding the big part of costs and time development takes.

and there are people who got Warp 1260s aswell. I know several not just me. even if it is hard..

but well.. do get the ACA1221LC. it is apparently your thing. slow cpu and almost no fastmem for a price higher than a board that have a faster cpu and much more memory. and that actually are acivly updated and guess what. firmware update will not cost you money and your PSU will not be blamed at when there is an issue

Are you Chucky trying to imply that something that I can buy with ease, properly, with proper support, is inferior to a thing I couldn't get even when I was open to it? Ever hear the expression bird in the hand is better than two in a bush Chucky? Any day and every day.

Nice deflect by the way. Since I like to bring things to conclusion, we can conclude from our exchange that:

Your assessment that I am all about "GIVE ME" is wrong since the item costs $360 USD.

Your assessment that "I am entitled" is wrong because I'm simply trying to support a community project that is made difficult and obtuse to support by the creators.

Your assumption that I don't know how to flash firmware is...well...you know what they say when you assume, right Chucky? So that one was flawed from the beginning.

I gotta tell you, I'm feeling more confident than ever that not wanting that Terrible 1260 was a right call back in March. Comes back to that "trust your first instinct" approach.

[Chucky]

"Your assessment that I am all about "GIVE ME" is wrong since the item is $360 USD."

that means you think as you paid 360 you are entitled a lifetime support. for ANYTHING that will be a problem. as you do not think you need to search youself for a solution that maybe not even be with the "product" you bought. like incompatible software. Software xxx doesnt run. now YOU FIX IT! I PAID!!!!

you are not trying to support a community project. maybe throw some money yeah. but then as you think everyone MUST have a webpage you can click-n-buy etc.. maybe you are a person that thinks that just you have thrown some money into it then suddenly everyone musty obey you. and that would consume alot of time. you have no t a slightest clue of how much a development of anything takes. (the TF1260 have been a BIG project with quite alot of costs for several persons. My ReAmigas aswell. several hundred if not thousand of euros from own pocket)

"Your assumption that I don't know how to flash firmware is."
well actually.. you don't.

no you do not want any hobbyproject. being a TF, Hese board or so. as you demand a nice flashy webpage where everyone turns after your wallet.. no much of this will require some effort from YOU aswell.. you WILL get support of the stuff. but you will also need to actually do something yourself aswell..

or you can pay premium money for 11MB of ram.. you are welcome..

[Chucky]

oh

https://www.exxoshost.co.uk/forum/vi...hp?f=65&t=4648

btw

[dreadnought]

Originally Posted by Chucky

oh

https://www.exxoshost.co.uk/forum/vi...hp?f=65&t=4648

btw

Jeez. I understand the frustration, but all this because of one - let's face it - troll? Are there really "several raging threads" with "people" being upset? Bullying/cancelling? Come on.



Just stop replying to these baiting threads/posts and the problem will go away.

[YouKnowWho]

Originally Posted by Chucky

"Your assessment that I am all about "GIVE ME" is wrong since the item is $360 USD."

that means you think as you paid 360 you are entitled a lifetime support. for ANYTHING that will be a problem. as you do not think you need to search youself for a solution that maybe not even be with the "product" you bought. like incompatible software. Software xxx doesnt run. now YOU FIX IT! I PAID!!!!

you are not trying to support a community project. maybe throw some money yeah. but then as you think everyone MUST have a webpage you can click-n-buy etc.. maybe you are a person that thinks that just you have thrown some money into it then suddenly everyone musty obey you. and that would consume alot of time. you have no t a slightest clue of how much a development of anything takes. (the TF1260 have been a BIG project with quite alot of costs for several persons. My ReAmigas aswell. several hundred if not thousand of euros from own pocket)

"Your assumption that I don't know how to flash firmware is."
well actually.. you don't.

no you do not want any hobbyproject. being a TF, Hese board or so. as you demand a nice flashy webpage where everyone turns after your wallet.. no much of this will require some effort from YOU aswell.. you WILL get support of the stuff. but you will also need to actually do something yourself aswell..

or you can pay premium money for 11MB of ram.. you are welcome..

Chucky....come on man...stand down. Stop digging.

$360 USD does not equal "GIVE ME"

No one in their sane mind expects lifetime support. Although when it comes to firmware updates, sharing them isn't exactly rocket science or costing you anything.

I AM trying to support a project. Projects cost money. It's the world we live in.
You want to finance the whole thing yourself - great. DO IT.
But we know support helps, and that's the power of the internet. You just don't appear to know how to harness it properly for some reason. That's why these TF are such a $#!+show.

You don't know how to bring people in to support you, google it. Ask. There are storefronts that can make it easy for everyone. You, supporters, everyone.

Stop digging on the ACA1221lc. I told you I have 3, they are lovely, and I'm sure once I sell these Amigas next year people will appreciate getting them pre-installed in there - working without concern.