Details for the next generation of Flickerfixers from Individual Computers - Page 74

Retrofan · 10 June 2012, 18:49

I've opened another thread: http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=64629 I don't want to go much off topic here and I'll need a lot of posts to make it working right.

gibs · 10 June 2012, 22:29

Here is a video of my Amiga 1200 in 720P runing mp3 for 45 minutes without any glitches

[ Show youtube player ]

roy bates · 10 June 2012, 22:40

just out of interest,how would running a loop of mps effect the screen?

wouldent it be better to run something graphicly intensive?

gibs · 10 June 2012, 23:15

Somebody told he had glitches when he was using intensively the CPU.

Retrofan · 10 June 2012, 23:47

I hadn't fixed horizontal lines but intermittent vertical bars when it was hot. Not sure if it's an Hdmi-HighGfx problem or my Timing problems. I know few people using that. I asked yesterday Novacoder and he told me he was using it right, but today he told me nope.
Edit: Gibs are you using Hdmi?

roy bates · 11 June 2012, 00:20

i wonder if running something graphicly intensive.i dont know, opening and closing fiil screen tests in windows in loops.in diferent resolutions over a set time period(you would have to let the system cool down between test and resolutions)

and taking temprature readings upto a point where the glitches appear and timing it.if its different each time it might not be a heat problem.

also am i wrong in thinking if you where to run a bank of tests you would have to do a run of them all of equal length of time,so to see if it happens on a regular time span at predictable intervals all the time or at least at the same point at the same temps to eliminate anything obvios?

magnetic · 11 June 2012, 00:43

Would running Scene demos for a couple of hours be considered pushing the hw?

Retrofan · 11 June 2012, 02:17

Gibs you think that the cause is the accelerator, but it isn't. It's the mobo that has a bad timing.

Read Ian's web: http://www.ianstedman.co.uk/Amiga/amiga_hacks/A1200_Mobo_fix/a1200_mobo_fix.html

"If we remove the 22pF capacitor, either by removing it or the resistor, the capacitive load drops from 37pF to 15pF. The rise/fall time is thus:
T = 2.2 x 150 x 13E-12

T= 4.95ns

Accelerator cards with logic buffers have a 3-7ns propagation delay added on. This helps to explain why some accelerator cards work better than others. I would need to re-read the A1200 CPU slot design notes to explain this further."

Your Blizzard is "avoiding" the necessary Timing fix. Perhaps changing your 060 you changed your "propagation delay" from 4 to 7ns or something enough to have it right. As you may know, with other accelerator or without it you'll have the same problem.

FOL · 11 June 2012, 02:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retrofan

Gibs you think that the cause is the accelerator, but it isn't. It's the mobo that has a bad timing.

Read Ian's web: http://www.ianstedman.co.uk/Amiga/amiga_hacks/A1200_Mobo_fix/a1200_mobo_fix.html

"If we remove the 22pF capacitor, either by removing it or the resistor, the capacitive load drops from 37pF to 15pF. The rise/fall time is thus:
T = 2.2 x 150 x 13E-12

T= 4.95ns

Accelerator cards with logic buffers have a 3-7ns propagation delay added on. This helps to explain why some accelerator cards work better than others. I would need to re-read the A1200 CPU slot design notes to explain this further."

Yout Blizzard is "avoiding" your necessary Timing fix. Perhaps changing your 060 you changed your "propagation delay" from 4 to 7ns or something enough to have it right. As you may know, with other accelerator or without it you'll have the same problem.

However as I said earlier;

Quote:

Another point is, I have found those timing fixes dont always work. Due to every board being different.
It can sometimes make things worse.

Retrofan · 11 June 2012, 02:37

Yep Fol, and those words weight over my decision about to make the timing fix... But I have to try it. As you know I have a couple of problems that can be related.

Anyway, I keep my smd's sticked to a paper tape...

FOL · 11 June 2012, 02:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retrofan

Yep Fol, and those word weight on my decision about to make the timing fix... But I have to try it. As you know I have a couple of problems that can be related.

Just want to make sure, people know that.
As they may think they have killed their mobo's. Just need to readd components, so its important to remove them carefully.

Retrofan · 11 June 2012, 02:44

Yep, I use chipquik...

Well...EDIT: If it were only the Indi I weren't be trying the fix. But... do you know what it is to install a Hd and 4 days later to have a message "wrong blockid...". As it is surely DH0, you have to format ALL the hardrive, and in your PC. I've done it so many times, changed the file system (PFS3, SFS), the Ide cable, the Cf brand, the Os... NO. I have to try the timing fix.

gibs · 11 June 2012, 06:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retrofan

Your Blizzard is "avoiding" the necessary Timing fix. Perhaps changing your 060 you changed your "propagation delay" from 4 to 7ns or something enough to have it right. As you may know, with other accelerator or without it you'll have the same problem.

Yes, I'm agree.
Actually I'm using the 1D4 (modded) and I still don't have issues when the B1260 board is in the Amiga but deactivated.

roy bates · 11 June 2012, 09:37

i dont think changing the cpu on a blizzard would change the propogation delay.(for one of a different revision)

gibs · 11 June 2012, 09:43

we were talking about changing the frequency... Freq=1/Time. So timing is probably affected.

roy bates · 11 June 2012, 09:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by gibs

we were talking about changing the frequency... Freq=1/Time. So timing is probably affected.

do you mean the frequency of the cpu? if so then no it wouldent.

Schoenfeld · 11 June 2012, 10:01

just want to let everyone know that this whole week I'll be out of office for the ANGA Cable show in Cologne, Germany - presentation of the Nequester residential gatway. I'll be back on Amiga stuff on tuesday or wednesday next week.

Jens

gibs · 11 June 2012, 10:51

@roy

So do you have a better explanation ?
(Why I had glitches with my 2 Amiga boards and by changing the accelerator I don't have any glitches anymore on both)

roy bates · 11 June 2012, 10:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by gibs

@roy

So do you have a better explanation ?
(Why I had glitches with my 2 Amiga boards and by changing the accelerator I don't have any glitches anymore on both)

nope i dont,what accelorator was in the other motherboard?

are the drivers for the higher gfx modes third party?

gibs · 11 June 2012, 11:15

We are trying the news screenmodes (which are high resolution: 1024x768 1280x1024 and 720P)
Using those modes most of users have reported gliches.
The issue has been identified as 'timing fix'.

I also had some glitches on my screen, and today my Amiga 1200 is runing very well.
You can see the videos and what I did here : http://ohmygibs.free.fr

Now we are just trying to find an explanation.

10 June 2012, 23:47	#1465
Retrofan Ruler of the Universe Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Lanzarote/Spain Posts: 6,195	I hadn't fixed horizontal lines but intermittent vertical bars when it was hot. Not sure if it's an Hdmi-HighGfx problem or my Timing problems. I know few people using that. I asked yesterday Novacoder and he told me he was using it right, but today he told me nope. Edit: Gibs are you using Hdmi? Last edited by Retrofan; 11 June 2012 at 00:24.

11 June 2012, 02:17	#1468
Retrofan Ruler of the Universe Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Lanzarote/Spain Posts: 6,195	Gibs you think that the cause is the accelerator, but it isn't. It's the mobo that has a bad timing. Read Ian's web: http://www.ianstedman.co.uk/Amiga/amiga_hacks/A1200_Mobo_fix/a1200_mobo_fix.html "If we remove the 22pF capacitor, either by removing it or the resistor, the capacitive load drops from 37pF to 15pF. The rise/fall time is thus: T = 2.2 x 150 x 13E-12 T= 4.95ns Accelerator cards with logic buffers have a 3-7ns propagation delay added on. This helps to explain why some accelerator cards work better than others. I would need to re-read the A1200 CPU slot design notes to explain this further." Your Blizzard is "avoiding" the necessary Timing fix. Perhaps changing your 060 you changed your "propagation delay" from 4 to 7ns or something enough to have it right. As you may know, with other accelerator or without it you'll have the same problem. Last edited by Retrofan; 11 June 2012 at 02:46.

11 June 2012, 02:37	#1470
Retrofan Ruler of the Universe Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Lanzarote/Spain Posts: 6,195	Yep Fol, and those words weight over my decision about to make the timing fix... But I have to try it. As you know I have a couple of problems that can be related. Anyway, I keep my smd's sticked to a paper tape... Last edited by Retrofan; 11 June 2012 at 19:31.

11 June 2012, 02:44	#1472
Retrofan Ruler of the Universe Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Lanzarote/Spain Posts: 6,195	Yep, I use chipquik... Well...EDIT: If it were only the Indi I weren't be trying the fix. But... do you know what it is to install a Hd and 4 days later to have a message "wrong blockid...". As it is surely DH0, you have to format ALL the hardrive, and in your PC. I've done it so many times, changed the file system (PFS3, SFS), the Ide cable, the Cf brand, the Os... NO. I have to try the timing fix. Last edited by Retrofan; 20 June 2012 at 02:08.

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10 June 2012, 18:49	#1461
Retrofan Ruler of the Universe Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Lanzarote/Spain Posts: 6,195	I've opened another thread: http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=64629 I don't want to go much off topic here and I'll need a lot of posts to make it working right.

10 June 2012, 22:29	#1462
gibs Banned Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: france Posts: 932	Here is a video of my Amiga 1200 in 720P runing mp3 for 45 minutes without any glitches [ Show youtube player ]

10 June 2012, 22:40	#1463
roy bates Registered User Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: birmingham Age: 55 Posts: 2,827	just out of interest,how would running a loop of mps effect the screen? wouldent it be better to run something graphicly intensive?

10 June 2012, 23:15	#1464
gibs Banned Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: france Posts: 932	Somebody told he had glitches when he was using intensively the CPU.

11 June 2012, 00:20	#1466
roy bates Registered User Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: birmingham Age: 55 Posts: 2,827	i wonder if running something graphicly intensive.i dont know, opening and closing fiil screen tests in windows in loops.in diferent resolutions over a set time period(you would have to let the system cool down between test and resolutions) and taking temprature readings upto a point where the glitches appear and timing it.if its different each time it might not be a heat problem. also am i wrong in thinking if you where to run a bank of tests you would have to do a run of them all of equal length of time,so to see if it happens on a regular time span at predictable intervals all the time or at least at the same point at the same temps to eliminate anything obvios?

11 June 2012, 00:43	#1467
magnetic Banned Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Los Angeles, USA Posts: 244	Would running Scene demos for a couple of hours be considered pushing the hw?

11 June 2012, 09:37	#1474
roy bates Registered User Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: birmingham Age: 55 Posts: 2,827	i dont think changing the cpu on a blizzard would change the propogation delay.(for one of a different revision)

11 June 2012, 09:43	#1475
gibs Banned Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: france Posts: 932	we were talking about changing the frequency... Freq=1/Time. So timing is probably affected.

11 June 2012, 10:01	#1477
Schoenfeld electricky. Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: out in the wild Posts: 1,256	just want to let everyone know that this whole week I'll be out of office for the ANGA Cable show in Cologne, Germany - presentation of the Nequester residential gatway. I'll be back on Amiga stuff on tuesday or wednesday next week. Jens

11 June 2012, 10:51	#1478
gibs Banned Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: france Posts: 932	@roy So do you have a better explanation ? (Why I had glitches with my 2 Amiga boards and by changing the accelerator I don't have any glitches anymore on both)

11 June 2012, 11:15	#1480
gibs Banned Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: france Posts: 932	We are trying the news screenmodes (which are high resolution: 1024x768 1280x1024 and 720P) Using those modes most of users have reported gliches. The issue has been identified as 'timing fix'. I also had some glitches on my screen, and today my Amiga 1200 is runing very well. You can see the videos and what I did here : http://ohmygibs.free.fr Now we are just trying to find an explanation.

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